Really interesting that Bob, now a journalism professor, doesn't see a problem with the federal government secretly presenting agents of the Pentagon to the news media cloaked as 'independent retired officers'. I mean, the expressed intent was a secret marketing campaign for the government's agenda.

Thats some North Korea crap right there.

*dead - what a surprise

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by gaffa.

*notdead

This dead video has been deemed functional; it must have been accidentally declared dead - declared notdead by gaffa.

ummmm, *notdead. it works fine.

and a *promote while i'm at it because this kind of crap shouldn't fly under the radar.

Self promoting this video back to the front page; last published Sunday, April 27th, 2008 9:45am PDT - promote requested by original submitter uhohzombies.

Well it said "This video is no longer available" so perhaps the server was swamped...

*books

Adding video to channels (Books) - requested by kronosposeidon.

"The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." - Thomas Jefferson

If you're going to go quoting the founding fathers, you should understand the context in which they wrote.

I did what I could by making this page a few days ago
http://www.mahalo.com/Message_Force_Multipliers

>> ^jonny:
If you're going to go quoting the founding fathers, you should understand the context in which they wrote.

Who says he or she doesn't understand?

I found out about this story from www.freepress.net, they have links where I sent my representative one of those auto-generated letters asking them to look into this. If your kinda pissed off about the current media and their crap stories these days, it's a good site to check out.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Sunday, April 27th, 2008 4:38pm PDT - promote requested by Fedquip.

I'm wondering where the controversy here is. Honestly, what do they expect to get out of retired army generals? A completely objective view on military affairs, unbiased by a lifetime dedicated to the army?

John Stauber has some really great books that pull back the curtain on PR tactics that most are unaware of. http://www.prwatch.org/books/index.html

I'll summarize the video for you Kreegath. The implication was that the analysts were giving their educated opinion but in reality they were being paid to deliver propaganda. A message they likely didn't even agree with given that they did know something about how successful military operations are conducted.

This was a really good debate, the likes of which you rarely see.

I love the, "this is an organized government attempt to deceive" versus the, "well, what do you expect" reaction.

The "What do you expect" argument should be avoided like the plague, as it signifies an acceptance and apathy towards centralized run away government encroaching on civil rights, ethical conduct and basically lying about its own actions and their effects.

"What the fuck, let's impeach these S.O.B.s" is a much better reaction.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I want Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield in orange jumpsuits.

I mean, the expressed intent was a secret marketing campaign for the government's agenda.

Thats some North Korea crap right there.


It's crap to be sure. However, in North Korea the media is run by the government directly and dissenters are arrested or killed. Don't negate how bad this is with a false comparison to North Korea.

>> ^bcglorf:

Don't negate how bad this is with a false comparison to North Korea.


Is it not possible to compare our ignorance/acceptance of our own manipulation in the US with ignorance/acceptance of manipulation by N. Korean citizens?

Just another thing to add to the list of illegal actions taken by the administration. I don't know how many more 'scoops' I can take regarding violations of federal law by Bush & Co... there are just too many to really believe that any neoconservative Republican administration would "play by the rules" ever again.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
>> ^jonny:
If you're going to go quoting the founding fathers, you should understand the context in which they wrote.

Who says he or she doesn't understand?

Did I? I made a suggestion, not an accusation. But its inclusion here does seem odd. IIRC, that quote was made in the context of the Sedition Act, and was referring to pseudonymous members of the government writing editorials in newspapers - some of which were calling for war with France, others just calling Adams an idiot. Jefferson did not support the idea of going to war with France, and was probably more concerned with the freedom of anyone to question, chastise, or otherwise remark on the administration. But the point remains - freedom of speech afforded to private citizens must hold for everyone, regardless of their current or previous job. I find it hard to believe that retired generals would take payment from the government to espouse a position which they did not hold themselves. That they were paid specifically to promulgate the administrations position is questionable, but I'm not sure it's illegal.

Do you honestly think that this is the first time in the history of our country that has happened.

The Pentagon provided military analysts to networks. I am quite sure the networks were aware that these people were coming from the Pentagon. Logic would dictate that is the Pentagon introduced you to an individual then said person would remain in contact with the Pentagon. A four star General, after 40 years in the service, is an extremely prized asset for any defense contractor and most of them enter into that role or as a lobbyist for special defense interest groups. Saying that these 75 "special pentagon agents" are something out of the ordinary is silly.

Saying that there was some secret propaganda machine at work seems a little tinfoil hat to me. Todays media is a biased, cash backed, forced opinion mess. Everything they put out has a hidden agenda.

e: Nevermind. It doesn't matter.

Is it not possible to compare our ignorance/acceptance of our own manipulation in the US with ignorance/acceptance of manipulation by N. Korean citizens?


Only as much as it is possible to compare it that of citizen's in Nazi Germany. The situation in N. Korea is so severe that comparisons to it are, to be understated, disingenuous. The ignorance and manipulation in North Korea involves executions for those who even question the near deity of the great leader. It involves all schools 'teaching' children about how great and all important Kim is to the well being of all. It involves the complete and total ban of all unsanctioned media that might dispel this image. So yes, I'd say it isn't really possible to make an honest analogy of the two without being entirely ignorant of the state of affairs in North Korea.