A role model for Democrats.

Glenn Greenwald had a piece on the presidential authority last week.

Good points, but I'm still conflicted on this one.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Good points, but I'm still conflicted on this one.


That's because you care deeply for the lives of your common man. That's what I like about you. That and your penis.

But what I see with this Libya interventionism is a means to allow special interest to affect the outcome of the liberated Libyans. There are many other problems with interventionism, such as blowback, encroaching on sovereignty, occupation, corporate occupation and so on. My biggest fear is continued US hegemony and further justification for larger defense spending.

That's a very good point leading in with Obama's quote from 2007. At least that makes the point that he's a hypocrite on the issue.

But as for the action being unconstitutional, unfortunately congress has never in our history been willing to fight to retain the right to declare war; and it seems they've lost it as a result. How often has a sitting president taken military actions without prior approval form congress? At least 125 times. Keep in mind we've only had 44 presidents.

"What is this effort going to cost American taxpayers?"

"Does this (endeavor) lack Constitutional authority?"

If those questions were answered honestly on every issue, there'd be no taxocrat-socialist party!

I find the Libyan uprising inspiring and would like to see them succeed in their revolution. I have no problem with the UN playing a supporting role in this conflict. I'd (obviously) be against occupation, ground forces, IMF/World Bank style imperialism, the building of bases and/or the encroachment upon the sovereignty of a liberated Libya.

I guess the question is whether or not we should take the situation at face value or not. Iraq was obviously bullshit from the start, from it's bogus 9/11 and WMD motivations, to the outrageous no-bid contracts and lavish military spending, to it's secret prisons and torture methods, to the gang of corporations that lined up around the block to make a buck. It lacked international support and clarity as to what it's intentions were.

I'm not seeing any of those telltale signs of bullshit here. This situation is not a unilateral US action. It has broad international support. It's purpose is defined and limited in scope, and I don't see the carpetbaggers lining up. If there is evidence to suggest this is another Iraq cluster fuck, I'd like to hear it, but for the moment, I suppose I am "pro war", or at least pro revolution.

On the whole "going to war in Libya is unconstitutional" score, I think Yglesias has it right when he says it's congress's abdication of power rather than a Presidential power-grab.

I don't mind if something changes and we generally see Congress assert and enforce their sole control of the power to declare war, but I do mind if it just turns into the casus belli for Republicans to "impeach" Obama for doing what every post-WWII President has done without consequence.

On the specific merits of military intervention in Libya, I don't buy that this is about helping Libyans. I don't doubt that there are many people who believe that's what this is about inside the administration. I might even believe Obama himself has been convinced of this. I personally think that if Libya didn't have oil, then the very prospect of intervention never would've been seriously raised in the White House.

If it is for humanitarian reasons, then I think we need a formal code of ethics and conduct for these sorts of things that would explain why Libya is in need of urgent intervention, and why Darfur, Iran, Bahrain, North Korea, Myanmar, etc. aren't.

Isn't this Channel called "Russia Today" or something like that. Look where this is being reported...not CNN not MSNBC...not even Fox the Obama Haters are going off on this.

I'd also like to point out that no war or military action that the United States has ever endeavored upon has pure Humanitarian reasons. Name one, I'll be glad to shoot it down for you.

Just to stop you on World War 2 right off the bat...we were attack first, we did not enter it for Humanitarian reasons.

My bad...Kucinich was on MSNBC with roughly the same message...good for them.

Not by germany.
>> ^Yogi:

Isn't this Channel called "Russia Today" or something like that. Look where this is being reported...not CNN not MSNBC...not even Fox the Obama Haters are going off on this.
I'd also like to point out that no war or military action that the United States has ever endeavored upon has pure Humanitarian reasons. Name one, I'll be glad to shoot it down for you.
Just to stop you on World War 2 right off the bat...we were attack first, we did not enter it for Humanitarian reasons.

>> ^gwiz665:

Not by germany.
>> ^Yogi:
Isn't this Channel called "Russia Today" or something like that. Look where this is being reported...not CNN not MSNBC...not even Fox the Obama Haters are going off on this.
I'd also like to point out that no war or military action that the United States has ever endeavored upon has pure Humanitarian reasons. Name one, I'll be glad to shoot it down for you.
Just to stop you on World War 2 right off the bat...we were attack first, we did not enter it for Humanitarian reasons.



When we declared War on Japan, Germany declared War on us. While there was a humanitarian result, wasn't at all the objective. You can look up the history of ignoring the Jewish plight in Germany and Poland and the denial of the stories of the camps as well as the denial of taking in fleeing Jews.

War on poverty?

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^gwiz665:
Not by germany.
>> ^Yogi:
Isn't this Channel called "Russia Today" or something like that. Look where this is being reported...not CNN not MSNBC...not even Fox the Obama Haters are going off on this.
I'd also like to point out that no war or military action that the United States has ever endeavored upon has pure Humanitarian reasons. Name one, I'll be glad to shoot it down for you.
Just to stop you on World War 2 right off the bat...we were attack first, we did not enter it for Humanitarian reasons.


When we declared War on Japan, Germany declared War on us. While there was a humanitarian result, wasn't at all the objective. You can look up the history of ignoring the Jewish plight in Germany and Poland and the denial of the stories of the camps as well as the denial of taking in fleeing Jews.