Regarding the alleged winner of this debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ButQKpZ3uzg

I rest my case.

Ive not seen hitchens annihilated in a debate like that before.

I'm certain I've seen this before... be right back after a search.

edit: http://www.videosift.com/video/George-Galloway-debates-Christopher-Hitchens-on-Iraq-part-1 ? It's dead and I'm not sure if this is a different video, so I won't call dupe.

its dead..... but these masterminds belong in here, i wouldnt dare oppose galloway at any point after seeing this, he is amazing......hitchens has a brain for sure, but wikipedia only mentions one personal friend of his, an iraqi buisnessman.....makes me wonder for his motivations about supporting the iraq-war....i just wonder, but then again, galloway might be right, it could be to land a vanity fair contract or too much whiskey!

They both make amazingly poignant remarks, its worth watching multiple times.
Hitchens makes some extremely good arguments for the invasion and continued occupation, and conversely Galloway does a brilliant job of slapping down many of those same arguments.

These two seem to be literary titans, with an impeccable understanding of history and the current situation, absolutely BRILLIANT debate.

Basically what Ive pulled from this...is as follows.
War, preemptive or otherwise, is atrocious in its current state.
Weapons, equipment, tactics and resources are simply not geared to carry out a "war" with the least impact on the nation in the target.

At the moment, war is a blunt, wide-reaching tool that is used to stamp out what we in the western world (read: developed world), through the lens of our own morals and ethics, see as something that must be stopped, for purely humanitarian reasons.

War is the worst tool for it, and the desired outcome leaves a horrendous trail of death and destruction in its wake.

There has to be a better way to hold to account these international war criminals without devastating the nation under which they rule.

I still hold that the war is wrong, the troops need to come home instantly, and reparations need to be considered for what we've done to that region.

We used the wrong tool for the job, you don't fight an ideal with a hammer, but unfortunately I don't have a better answer....if I did id be rich.

Galloway makes his points along the same lines but doesn't go that far, he stops at saying the war is wrong.
I don't think there's a single person alive today, in the western society, that isn't in some respect happy that Saddam is gone. Its the abject conditions that have been created as a result of the methods used in order to get him gone in the first place, is where we have this huge divide.

Cutting to the bone, generally, everyone in the world that follows our humanitarian ethics and morals in the most broad sense, knows that these international bullies and mongrels need to be held to account. The left see war as the wrong way to go about it, the right don't see any other method, and so are content with using one evil to oust another.

Inaction or action, both are atrocities in their own right. Its rather depressing.

the reason saddam had to be removed was because he was a bully? since the u.s has taken on the job of removeing leaders, then will they stop at saddam or continue, there are about 20 evil dictators in africa and the middle-east....and some guys in asia.....but there is not much oil under their feet.

Thats my point.
Bully is probably too soft a word to describe these disgusting excuses for human beings, but neither war nor embargo / diplomacy is effective in making things better.

just started watching... damn hitchens is a boring creep.

to be honest hitchens's definitions of the conditions needed to invalidate a nations' sovereignty kinda apply to the USA.... aggression towards other states, occupation, dealing with the mafia etc.
i have a feeling he's gonna have three new arseholes by the time this is over.

"people like hitchens are willing to fight till the last drop of other peoples' blood"

i lol'd. but it's not funny.

"the british empire... on which the sun never set... because god wouldn't trust the english in the dark"

oh lolololol. this is great stuff.

The defining moment of this debate is here:

HITCHENS: But let’s say that we take his word for it. It means that when he went—having said that he thought that Kuwait was part of the Iraqi motherland—to greet Saddam Hussein in 1994 in Iraq and to salute him for his courage and his indefatigability.

GEORGE GALLOWAY: That’s another lie. You’re lying again. Your nose is growing.

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: He went—and to take his side again, it meant that he went in foot on his own evidence. He went in full knowledge of the fact that he was dealing with a murderer and a monster and a dictator. So the pit of exculpation that you attempt to dig, Mr. Galloway, has just swallowed you up and the record will show it.

And after this Galloway flounders and appears unusually taken aback. Enough so that he stumbles around with a point he already made and was refuted on earlier:
GALLOWAY: But you opposed the war in 1991 in the full knowledge of what had happened at Halabja just three years before. You’re the one who went on television denouncing President Bush for his plan to invade and destroy the regime of Saddam Hussein.

And the reason for this is both men know of the existence of this video of Galloway's 1994 visit to Saddam. It is, verbatim:
"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. I can honestly tell you, that there was not a single person to whom I told I was coming to Iraq and hoping to meet with yourself, who did not wish me to convey their heartfelt fraternal greetings and support."

And that is exactly what Hitchens was referring to by "Mr. Galloway, has just swallowed you up and the record will show it". Hitchens baited Galloway into trumpeting one of his favorite lies, and did it such that there can be no mistake that Galloway is knowingly and intentionally lying about his actual opinions of Saddam.

Yeah, it's a dupe of my vid.

*discard

Sorry about that, I know what a pain in the arse it is to do a 12-part custom player.

Discarding this post - discard requested by member gorillaman.