My family is conservative and whines about others taking welfare, how unions are killing America and how bloated the government is.

But my brother was on unemployment for a total of three years. He gets a military pension. He now works for a company on a military contract. He joined a union to get higher pay (he didn't like that he didn't have a voice in negotiating his pay, it was a governmental agency that did it, and didn't do it well. Well enough.) His wife works for the county government.

My dad has three government source pensions.

These Republicans talk about self reliance but when it comes to their own pockets, they grasp grasp grasp, but somehow it is the other person's fault.

The hypocrisy blows my mind.

The only good thing about it is I now can stop all their whining about others by holding up a mirror to their own behavior.

I am smug and morally superior and I LOVE IT.

He said it himself, "When is it time to start thinking about me?" That's it in a nutshell. Some people are just of the mentality that they take care of themselves first, no matter the circumstances or who it affects. Even if it makes them complete hypocrites. That's a small price to pay. As long as they get what they want, who cares?

>> ^bareboards2:

My family is conservative and whines about others taking welfare, how unions are killing America and how bloated the government is.
But my brother was on unemployment for a total of three years. He gets a military pension. He now works for a company on a military contract. He joined a union to get higher pay (he didn't like that he didn't have a voice in negotiating his pay, it was a governmental agency that did it, and didn't do it well. Well enough.) His wife works for the county government.
My dad has three government source pensions.
These Republicans talk about self reliance but when it comes to their own pockets, they grasp grasp grasp, but somehow it is the other person's fault.
The hypocrisy blows my mind.
The only good thing about it is I now can stop all their whining about others by holding up a mirror to their own behavior.
I am smug and morally superior and I LOVE IT.


I will kind of have to disagree with you on this number--not because your wrong, but because it's a slight bit disingenuous.

***Unemployment Insurance is like Health Insurance. It is there, paid by you and me, for you and me. I may not agree with most food stamps programs, etc. but there is nothing wrong with using Unemployment Insurance.

***As far as pensions... They are there for a reason. Like the Military pensions, for example... Your body typically is fucked by the time you reach old age. The second part of pensions is that government employees' pay (compared to say the private market employee with a master's degree) is a lot less than the private sector... Remember, higher up positions are like Managers or even CEOs. So even if an E8 makes 100K in benefits and such a year, he is sorely behind, say, a CEO, which he is the equivalent of.

Did you know the average age of a retired military or law enforcement officer is 5 years? That isn't shit for a benefit if you ask me...

Now pensions for a County Admin, Mayor, Senator, etc., yeah, that's bullshit. If the job doesn't have shit pay and demanding physical labor, it shouldn't have a pension.

I think nobody cared about this in good times, and only scapegoat when times are bad due to jealousy.

(As far as the union part, your 100% right. I didn't mind when our union was disbanded; they risked forcing layoffs in trade for pay raises...)

You support giving unemployed people money, but not feeding them?

Best healthcare system in the world...

I should have given more details on the unemployment "insurance." His son, who is more conservative than he is, lost his job along with hundreds of others when a company collapsed. His industry was flooded with people looking for remaining jobs. His response was to get a job delivering ice cream until "his" industry recovered/absorbed the sudden influx of capable --- computer technicians.

Now THAT is walking the walk.

My brother making vague attempts at half-assed jobs for three years (he got laid off twice, wasn't consecutive) while collecting unemployment and a military pension? That's bullshit. That's welfare for the wealthy and he took it because it was there. His son was more honest.

If I told you how much my father collects each month, you would not be saying what you are saying. All from the government. Believe me, there is nothing "disingenuous" about the amount of money my dad collects each month.

My point was to highlight their hypocrisy. Just as that Congressman blathers on about being self reliant while grasping what is offered.

If you believe in self reliance, then be self reliant.

Hypocrites.


>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^bareboards2:


I will kind of have to disagree with you on this number--not because your wrong, but because it's a slight bit disingenuous.
Unemployment Insurance is like Health Insurance. It is there, paid by you and me, for you and me. I may not agree with most food stamps programs, etc. but there is nothing wrong with using Unemployment Insurance.
As far as pensions... They are there for a reason. Like the Military pensions, for example... Your body typically is fucked by the time you reach old age. The second part of pensions is that government employees' pay (compared to say the private market employee with a master's degree) is a lot less than the private sector... Remember, higher up positions are like Managers or even CEOs. So even if an E8 makes 100K in benefits and such a year, he is sorely behind, say, a CEO, which he is the equivalent of.
Did you know the average age of a retired military or law enforcement officer is 5 years? That isn't shit for a benefit if you ask me...
Now pensions for a County Admin, Mayor, Senator, etc., yeah, that's bullshit. If the job doesn't have shit pay and demanding physical labor, it shouldn't have a pension.
I think nobody cared about this in good times, and only scapegoat when times are bad due to jealousy.
(As far as the union part, your 100% right. I didn't mind when our union was disbanded; they risked forcing layoffs in trade for pay raises...)

Wow. So the conversation goes:

Him: The Government shouldn't cover your health care. Its your responsibility.
Her: The Government covers your health care, why don't you make it your responsibility.
Him: Because I don't want to pay for it.

ARE YOU FREAKING SRS? WHO ELECTS THESE MORONS.

>> ^Jinx:

ARE YOU FREAKING SRS? WHO ELECTS THESE MORONS.


Profound question. Voters choose by voting against candidates based on the emotions they feel when they vote.

"Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'"

-George Carlin

i feel ya BB.

it's just the current narrative that most people buy into propagated by the media.
why?
because they have shit to do,families to take care of and many times two jobs..sometimes three.
the factual information is out there but you have to look to find it and most people just dont have the time.
so we get folks regurgitating factoids and arguments given to them by well-paid pundits.
"they took our jobs"
if some dude from mexico who cant even speak the language, and has no education, took your job then you are a loser of such EPIC and humiliating proportions.
pablo didnt take your job,your job was outsourced to india.blame your company not some migrant worker.

in the 80's they gave us the narrative "welfare queens" now we are being told it is those "greedy" and "lazy" school teachers,and the unions they are part of,totally ignoring the history of unions and the thousands who died fighting so we can have:
40 hr work weeks.
weekends off.
safer work enviroments.
equal labor practices and the fact that its illegal to have your 8 yr old daughter working 14 hrs a day..7 days a week.
the list is impressive.

they say that universal health care is socialism while conveniently ignoring certain aspects of our government being of that very model.
they also ignore those pesky facts that health care would be cheaper on a single payer plan.one that we already have!
medicare is by far one of the most efficient per dollar than any other government institution.
but those facts just get in the way of their narrative.

look at how they formulate their premise.
using words to compare our government with running a business or household.
it is weak and factually dishonest but people can relate to that because they understand...
it relates to how THEY live,so it makes sense to them.
but it has nothing at all to do with reality.

the food stamp program,along with social security have been two of the great success stories.
keeping the poor and working poor from destitution due to all resources going to food.
lowered child mortality because these kids can eat and older,more vulnerable of this society dont end up homeless.
almost 70 million on food stamps but what will they show as their proof these things are a failure?
anecdotal evidence.not to convey a strong point but rather to appeal to the emotional nature of us all.

these people are being duped into believing that certain politicians think and feel just like they do.
no...they dont.
the ONLY time you matter to a politician EVER..is the election cycle.

for as long as public elections are financed by private funding special interest will always have their ears and by proxy...set the narrative.
they call it "public relations".
i call it what it is:propaganda.

oh man.total derailment.
my bad.

I can agree with you on your brother (And his son.) I was just noting that there are different levels of conservatives. This congressman is a raging blowhard because he is a hypocrite. Hands down.

As for how much your father makes---it depends what he did, the risks, the level of supervision and all. It is not for me to judge--but I get your point. If he wasn't a 24/7 man, or held a position of high liability, then it is welfare. If his bones don't ache, or his lifespan look shorter, than it's welfare... But some do earn their pensions. Most (As I assume you will agree here,) however, do not.

>> ^bareboards2:

I should have given more details on the unemployment "insurance." His son, who is more conservative than he is, lost his job along with hundreds of others when a company collapsed. His industry was flooded with people looking for remaining jobs. His response was to get a job delivering ice cream until "his" industry recovered/absorbed the sudden influx of capable --- computer technicians.
Now THAT is walking the walk.
My brother making vague attempts at half-assed jobs for three years (he got laid off twice, wasn't consecutive) while collecting unemployment and a military pension? That's bullshit. That's welfare for the wealthy and he took it because it was there. His son was more honest.
If I told you how much my father collects each month, you would not be saying what you are saying. All from the government. Believe me, there is nothing "disingenuous" about the amount of money my dad collects each month.
My point was to highlight their hypocrisy. Just as that Congressman blathers on about being self reliant while grasping what is offered.
If you believe in self reliance, then be self reliant.
Hypocrites.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^bareboards2:


I will kind of have to disagree with you on this number--not because your wrong, but because it's a slight bit disingenuous.
Unemployment Insurance is like Health Insurance. It is there, paid by you and me, for you and me. I may not agree with most food stamps programs, etc. but there is nothing wrong with using Unemployment Insurance.
As far as pensions... They are there for a reason. Like the Military pensions, for example... Your body typically is fucked by the time you reach old age. The second part of pensions is that government employees' pay (compared to say the private market employee with a master's degree) is a lot less than the private sector... Remember, higher up positions are like Managers or even CEOs. So even if an E8 makes 100K in benefits and such a year, he is sorely behind, say, a CEO, which he is the equivalent of.
Did you know the average age of a retired military or law enforcement officer is 5 years? That isn't shit for a benefit if you ask me...
Now pensions for a County Admin, Mayor, Senator, etc., yeah, that's bullshit. If the job doesn't have shit pay and demanding physical labor, it shouldn't have a pension.
I think nobody cared about this in good times, and only scapegoat when times are bad due to jealousy.
(As far as the union part, your 100% right. I didn't mind when our union was disbanded; they risked forcing layoffs in trade for pay raises...)

>> ^Ryjkyj:

You support giving unemployed people money, but not feeding them?


I support those that worked and paid into the pot getting a check for the "just in case" moments.

My true gripe with food stamps is that the process is completely broken. Buy soda, beef jerky, red bull, muscle supplements, you name it. Sell them to your next door neighbor if you want... Now, if they had a process that directly feeds someone with decent food, that's a bit different (Say, government sponsored food kitchens?)

WIC? I can agree with that program because it has some accountability measures that makes it harder to abuse. But even that doesn't prevent making a buck when the reason is not legit.

On a side note--the verification process for unemployment is lacking too. I claimed it for about two-three months, and, well, I could apply online with three jobs that I was not qualified for... Another reason unemployment irks me is that a corporation can fight you for nearly as long as they want and you cannot really do dick about it...

But that's in Florida, may be different other places.