"Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong."

"Religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having key decisions by religious people, by irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state, not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken.
(...)
Faith means making a virtue of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it, are our intellectual slave holders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense.

Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings, who don't have all the answers to think that they do.
(...)
Let's remember what the real problem was: that we learned to precipatate mass death, before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it.

That's it.

Grow up or die."

Bloody brilliant.

Peter Pan never dies

A bit much with all that editing and music.

Good message though.

I haven't seen the whole movie, but I hope he makes a point somewhere about separating the negative effect religion has on politics from the positive effect religion has on many people's private lives.

[Edit] I just watched it again, and I will understand (as I noted when I left the movie theater after seeing it for the first time) that a lot of people won't get the appropriate message from it. They'll see the "over-the-top" music, and clips of nuclear exposions, and just turn up their nose and say "That's those atheists, just as arrogant as the people they preach about, that's not my God and that's not my religion he's talking about."

Well, you know what? It is what he's talking about. And I'm wholly glad that we have people like Bill Maher who can stand up there and say it, and glad that we have people down here who will help share what he's saying to other people. Because let's face it, a lot of atheists/rationalists/humanists are timid in the face of religion and the overly religious. This message is one of the most important, if not the most important, motivator for ending the backwards, superstitious, ancient, controlling, debilitating and retarded (non-colloquial definition) thing we just sit back and call "Good 'ol Religion".

More often than not I'm quite the cynic when it comes to the survival of our race (one of the reasons discussed in the video above, another would be from reading YouTube comments...). But there is that part of me that really, badly, wants to see us progress into the future, into space-travel, and onto wonderous scientific discoveries. And so long as Religion persists, it will damage that future and hold us back from it.

Related video:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Johnny-Cash-Gods-Gonna-Cut-U-Down

I realize the videosift teritory is fairly areligious, but please read this comment with an open mind.

I dont know so much about the christian parts of that clips, but from the muslim bits he used, to me it seemed to show that he didn't have a proper understanding of the religion. This fact really struck me when he was making the leap of logic that just because a religion believes in the final day, that somehow its OK to pillage the earth (environmentally), according to the religion.

I haven't seem the whole movie, perhaps its better, but this clip was simply a series of picking and choosing one liners to prove a point, instead of an actual understanding of the overall picture.

The last thing that i found strange was his claim that moderates should free themselves of these chains because the entity of religion has been used for so much hate, killing, etc. I really think that's absurd. What if I worded the exact same thing, except put in a country.

'Moderate Americans should emancipate themselves from America because the USA has commited crimes such as starting wars, killing thousands, napalming thousands.... etc, all in the name of USA.'

You probably realize how absurd his reasoning is. Clearly Americans SHOULDN't emancipate themselves just because there are some people committing crimes in its name, so why is this train of logic appropriate for religions?

>> ^osama1234:
I dont know so much about the christian parts of that clips, but from the muslim bits he used, to me it seemed to show that he didn't have a proper understanding of the religion. This fact really struck me when he was making the leap of logic that just because a religion believes in the final day, that somehow its OK to pillage the earth (environmentally), according to the religion.

I don't know about Muslims, but I have personally spoken with Christians who feel that God put everything here just for our benefit. Therefore, it's perfectly fine to pillage the environment because it's here specifically for our benefit anyway. It's a really convenient worldview that ignores any consequences for those actions.

>> ^osama1234:
Clearly Americans SHOULDN't emancipate themselves just because there are some people committing crimes in its name, so why is this train of logic appropriate for religions?


Because a country and a democratic nation are different things. A religion shouldn't really change although in the real world they do (cherry picking, watering down, extremism etc). A democratic nation is all about the possibility of change: when things go wrong the citizens vote new people into the government to change laws, taxing policies and so on...

In my view the moderate religious people are to their holy books (Bible, Quran...) like George W Bush and his pals are to the US Constitution. They talk like it's the greatest thing ever, yet they don't follow it themselves.

Propaganda is fun. Let's upvote it.

>> ^messenger:
A bit much with all that editing and music.
Good message though.
I haven't seen the whole movie, but I hope he makes a point somewhere about separating the negative effect religion has on politics from the positive effect religion has on many people's private lives.


I actually think his point (though perhaps, not in this clip, but I watch a lot of Bill Maher) is that the impact religion has on private lives is actually one of false hope where they fail to realise reality. The want something to be true so much and it does provide them confort. But just because it provides them confort, doesn't make it true.

I don't want to railroad the thread, but it's a bit like the matrix. One pill for "bliss" but it's not real, or the other one for reality???

Well, I think too many people are getting this idea that religion has anything to do with faith. One is a set of rules, the other is a point of acceptance. I am not religious, but I have faith that the world I can see in front of me is real. Faith and religion cannot be argued as the same thing. Having doctrines of any nature can be bad or good. It depends on the nature of the doctrine and if the individuals follow it. Example:

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."
—Matthew 5:38-42

Tell me Christians follow that one. That's a religious point that most of their faith interferes with, and rejects.

>> ^osama1234:
I realize the videosift teritory is fairly areligious, but please read this comment with an open mind.
I dont know so much about the christian parts of that clips, but from the muslim bits he used, to me it seemed to show that he didn't have a proper understanding of the religion. This fact really struck me when he was making the leap of logic that just because a religion believes in the final day, that somehow its OK to pillage the earth (environmentally), according to the religion.
I haven't seem the whole movie, perhaps its better, but this clip was simply a series of picking and choosing one liners to prove a point, instead of an actual understanding of the overall picture.
The last thing that i found strange was his claim that moderates should free themselves of these chains because the entity of religion has been used for so much hate, killing, etc. I really think that's absurd. What if I worded the exact same thing, except put in a country.
'Moderate Americans should emancipate themselves from America because the USA has commited crimes such as starting wars, killing thousands, napalming thousands.... etc, all in the name of USA.'
You probably realize how absurd his reasoning is. Clearly Americans SHOULDN't emancipate themselves just because there are some people committing crimes in its name, so why is this train of logic appropriate for religions?


The discussion about the End of Days is just to illustrate how people hoping for the world to end have no reason to better the world.

"Faith [Religion] means making a virtue of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it, are our intellectual slave holders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense."

That is the heart of the entire film, that if people live their lives and make their decisions based on millennia old superstition and faerie tales they become a detriment to society and a danger to the future of all mankind.

"Well, I think too many people are getting this idea that religion has anything to do with faith. One is a set of rules, the other is a point of acceptance. I am not religious, but I have faith that the world I can see in front of me is real. Faith and religion cannot be argued as the same thing."

Most religions make a virtue specifically out of unquestioning faith. Rationality makes a virtue out of intellectual curiosity and of changing one's opinion if the data changes.

Watched the movie last week and found this section completely out of tone with the rest of the film. One moment he's ridiculing the supposed second coming of Christ, mocking biblical re-enactments and arguing for doubt over certainty the next he's painting the screen with raining fire and apocalypse. Not that I disagree with what's he's saying here, if anything I'd argue he's probably exaggerating as a vast majority of the developed world is already predominantly secular, I just find it totally out of whack with the rest of the film.

I felt the same way. The first part until this is all fun and games, he's just mocking religious people, and this part gets all serious. I like this part much more. Of course it's over the top, but apparently some people need it spoon fed.

>> ^RedSky:
Watched the movie last week and found this section completely out of tone with the rest of the film. One moment he's ridiculing the supposed second coming of Christ, mocking biblical re-enactments and arguing for doubt over certainty the next he's painting the screen with raining fire and apocalypse. Not that I disagree with what's he's saying here, if anything I'd argue he's probably exaggerating as a vast majority of the developed world is already predominantly secular, I just find it totally out of whack with the rest of the film.

Humans are tribal by nature. Religion is simply the motivation behind it. Do you really think the wars that we've waged as humanity since the early blossom of our history would not have happened if we hadn't been religious? Of course they would have, only a different scapegoat would have been found, not 'my god is better then your god'.

Dramatic music and multiple cutscenes, of varying relevance to the subject, are used to make it seem like a matter of life and death. This video clearly presents facts selectively to convince people of Maher's personal viewpoints. It's similar to Michael Moore's way of making documentaries, i.e. it's a form of propaganda. And while I may agree with some of Maher's viewpoints when it comes to religion, I despise this video for it's many manipulative effects.

^You should see "expelled"...

^ oh, please. If a movie agrees with your opinions on religion and evolution, it's seems pretty clear you're willing to turn the other cheek when it comes to the subjectivity of what's represented. It's perfectly normal and understandable to do so, but don't be a hypocrite.

An atheist is a person who claims either an absence of faith in deities or that there are no deities.

What atheists cannot claim (and the religous do not) is that they are rational and logical all the time, believe only what is factually true and cannot be tricked by their own emotions.

Put another way, atheists have the same human weaknesses as the religious, they just come out in different ways.

>> ^rasch187:
Propaganda is fun. Let's upvote it.


Sure, your jewish zombie is the truth and anyone saying "come again?" is telling you propaganda.

Don't forget to plug your ears with your fingers and scream LALALALALA at the top of your lungs while you're doing it.

If there was a glaring hole in what he said, you would have pointed that out if you're so convinced it's propaganda. But he's right, faith asks the faithful not to think, so you'd be at a disadvantage to argue with reason.

>> ^quantumushroom:
An atheist is a person who claims either an absence of faith in deities or that there are no deities.
What atheists cannot claim (and the religous do not) is that they are rational and logical all the time, believe only what is factually true and cannot be tricked by their own emotions.
Put another way, atheists have the same human weaknesses as the religious, they just come out in different ways.


Just for the record, Maher is not atheist (firm belief there is no God), he's agnostic (meh, I dunno). He believes that agnostics are almost as wacky as Religious folks, simply because nobody can know for sure...

Ironic Bill comes off looking like some Jesus messiah when he was criticizing them the whole movie. But I digress.

He was dead on the Muslim sections of the movie. Because he would ask them something and they would always say he was wrong, or had his information wrong, or that it's politics, or that what is written in the Quran is applicable only to the ancient times. Sure he didn't interview anyone who was a Islamic reformer, but Bill is going after religion as a whole as a institution of mankind that needs to go.

He makes a very good point.

Scientology = WTF?
Christianity = OK!

There are moments in the movie where some people really do defend their faith well but their arguments always end eventually at the usual "its about faith!" or "what if you're wrong?". Jesus saying that the holy trinity is like the 3 different states of water for example was really a brilliant analogy.

I enjoyed it.

One is true, one is not. Nothing hypocritical about that.

My point was that expelled does the same thing, just much worse. There is absolutely no factual basis for the conclusions that are drawn there, but there is here. If people actually look forward to the End Times and are actively trying to bring it about, they should be stopped by any means necessary to ensure the survival of our race. Unlike religious people I actually care for my fellow man, because I want them to live not delude themselves to go to "a better place".

Religion is a clear threat to human kind and if propaganda is the only way people will listen and start asking questions, then so be it. It could have been done much more forcefully than this and it could certainly be toned down. Try only listening to it, or edit out the bombs and all that inconsequential crap.

And shove your "oh please" right up your ass.

>> ^rasch187:
^ oh, please. If a movie agrees with your opinions on religion and evolution, it's seems pretty clear you're willing to turn the other cheek when it comes to the subjectivity of what's represented. It's perfectly normal and understandable to do so, but don't be a hypocrite.

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by radx.

Awarding alien_concept with one Power Point for fixing this video's dead embed code.