Bill Maher: New Rule – The Self-Esteem Movement

"Learning to love yourself is the greatest love at all."

YouTube: In his editorial New Rule, Bill Maher examines how instilling an overinflated sense of self importance in children has led to the existence of Donald Trump. Original air date: March 18, 2016
ChaosEnginesays...

"Every time a parent takes the kids side over the teachers,
or asks a child where THEY want to go to dinner,
or doesn't say 'be quiet' when adults are talking,
you are creating the Donald Trumps of tomorrow"

Yes, and every time a parent says to a child "I've told you a million times not to exaggerate" they are creating the Bill Mahers of tomorrow; hyperbolic hypocrites who pretend to be liberal, but are actually just stupid.

FFS Bill, the 1950s called and they want their antiquated parenting ideals back.

Absolutely, a child has to accept that there are right and wrong answers and 2+2=5 is not little Johnny "expressing himself". It's fine for the kids to say they'd LIKE to go to McDonalds, but they don't get to make the final decision. And kids also need to learn how to have a conversation with people and basic manners (i.e. don't interrupt).

But we all know teachers are never wrong! Heaven forfend that a child actually question one.

And having a child take an interest in food? That's preposterous!

And finally, kids should absolutely learn that their opinions don't matter because of their age, and that they should sit down and STFU.

newtboysays...

OK, it was poorly said, and yes Bill's getting hyperbolic in his old age, but I think the sentiment is correct.
Every time you coddle a child (at the expense of the public) and make it think the world revolves around it and other people don't matter, you take a step towards creating a narcissist with no empathy like Drumpf. That's bad for them and us.
One instance of non-parenting does not a Trump make, but a consistent pattern can.
I actually took an interest in food at about 4years old when my parents sent me to jr cooking class. Pigs in a blanket, crepes, and cherry tarts, so simplistic cooking, but it got my interest in food started.
I also constantly questioned my teachers, but I did it because I wanted to know the why of what they just said, not because I thought I knew better than they did....usually.

ChaosEnginesaid:

"Every time a parent takes the kids side over the teachers,
or asks a child where THEY want to go to dinner,
or doesn't say 'be quiet' when adults are talking,
you are creating the Donald Trumps of tomorrow"

Yes, and every time a parent says to a child "I've told you a million times not to exaggerate" they are creating the Bill Mahers of tomorrow; hyperbolic hypocrites who pretend to be liberal, but are actually just stupid.

FFS Bill, the 1950s called and they want their antiquated parenting ideals back.

Absolutely, a child has to accept that there are right and wrong answers and 2+2=5 is not little Johnny "expressing himself". It's fine for the kids to say they'd LIKE to go to McDonalds, but they don't get to make the final decision. And kids also need to learn how to have a conversation with people and basic manners (i.e. don't interrupt).

But we all know teachers are never wrong! Heaven forfend that a child actually question one.

And having a child take an interest in food? That's preposterous!

And finally, kids should absolutely learn that their opinions don't matter because of their age, and that they should sit down and STFU.

ChaosEnginesays...

Yep, coddling a child and telling them they're more important than everyone is a bad thing.

But the examples Maher used aren't coddling, they're treating the child like a human being.

newtboysaid:

Every time you coddle a child (at the expense of the public) and make it think the world revolves around it and other people don't matter, you take a step towards creating a narcissist with no empathy like Drumpf. That's bad for them and us.

newtboysays...

? All the examples he gave were examples of teaching a child that they are the best, most important person in the world.
Allowing your child to kick the seat in front of you on a plane, in a theater, at school, or anywhere is not treating them like a human being, it's coddling.
Teaching that loving yourself is the greatest is coddling and teaching narcissism, not treating them like a human being.
Teaching your child that they are the "best" at everything is coddling and creating a narcissist, not treating them like a human being.
Teaching children to be confident in abilities they don't possess, and simply vilifying evidence that they really aren't proficient is coddling, not treating them like a human being, and it's teaching them to be a ridiculous douchebag.
Giving the same accolades for failure as are given for success is not treating them like a human being, it's coddling and teaching them that mere existence=success, which is absolute bullshit.
I'm confused about what examples you mean, because every one he gave made sense to me and seemed to be an example of coddling.

ChaosEnginesaid:

Yep, coddling a child and telling them they're more important than everyone is a bad thing.

But the examples Maher used aren't coddling, they're treating the child like a human being.

ChaosEnginesays...

I quoted the specific examples I was referring to in my original post.

"Every time a parent takes the kids side over the teachers,
or asks a child where THEY want to go to dinner,
or doesn't say 'be quiet' when adults are talking,
you are creating the Donald Trumps of tomorrow"

Again, those aren't creating Trumps, those are treating a child like human being, and possibly even one you like.

As you said yourself, it was poorly said. And given that Mahers entire fucking job is saying funny shit that his writers came up with, "poorly said" is pretty inexcusable.

newtboysaid:

? All the examples he gave were examples of teaching a child that they are the best, most important person in the world.
Allowing your child to kick the seat in front of you on a plane, in a theater, at school, or anywhere is not treating them like a human being, it's coddling.
Teaching that loving yourself is the greatest is coddling and teaching narcissism, not treating them like a human being.
Teaching your child that they are the "best" at everything is coddling and creating a narcissist, not treating them like a human being.
Teaching children to be confident in abilities they don't possess, and simply vilifying evidence that they really aren't proficient is coddling, not treating them like a human being, and it's teaching them to be a ridiculous douchebag.
Giving the same accolades for failure as are given for success is not treating them like a human being, it's coddling and teaching them that mere existence=success, which is absolute bullshit.
I'm confused about what examples you mean, because every one he gave made sense to me and seemed to be an example of coddling.

newtboysays...

My mistake.
I'll admit, his delivery is going down hill these days. I've been a fan for a LONG time, but he's not as good as he once was by far.
I get especially annoyed when he gets upset when his audience groans at a bad taste joke, it's like he doesn't understand that's a POSITIVE reaction to a bad taste joke, and indicates his audience understands it's in bad taste. You would think he would know that after 3+ decades in snarky 'comedy'.

To your points....
When a parent takes the kids side over the teachers....well, that depends on what the issue is, but on it's face that's also coddling. The implication/infrence is that it would be about the child's behavior in class, or their academic performance, and in either case taking the child's side over the teacher is teaching them that they are more important than the authority, and/or that their word is going to be taken over an adult in authority, and their POV or opinion is the only one that matters. That's terrible, and sets them up for failure and/or prison later.
Not telling a child to shut the fuck up when they are rudely interrupting adults DOES breed poorly mannered narcissists, as it's teaching the child that what they have to say is the MOST important thing, far more important than the adult discussion they are interrupting. That's terrible, bad manners, completely unrealistic, and not good for the child's development into a decent human being. Children are not adults, and 99.9% of the time what they want to say/ask is not important. Even in those rare cases where it is important, not teaching them to not interrupt creates mannerless narcissistic douchebags that never allow other people to speak and believe their every fleeting thought is golden.
Asking a kid where they want to go to dinner....OK, that's stupid. If you just ask them, the child isn't automatically in control. If you always ask them at every meal and defer to their whim over the wishes of adults (which is what I think he meant, but not what he said), that's coddling and breeding a narcissist that believes his is the only opinion that matters to anyone and should always take precedent over other's needs/wants.

ChaosEnginesaid:

I quoted the specific examples I was referring to in my original post.

"Every time a parent takes the kids side over the teachers,
or asks a child where THEY want to go to dinner,
or doesn't say 'be quiet' when adults are talking,
you are creating the Donald Trumps of tomorrow"

Again, those aren't creating Trumps, those are treating a child like human being, and possibly even one you like.

As you said yourself, it was poorly said. And given that Mahers entire fucking job is saying funny shit that his writers came up with, "poorly said" is pretty inexcusable.

ChaosEnginesays...

Yeah, I used to like Maher too, but I'm kinda over him now. Even when I agree with him, he makes his point in such a douchey way that I find myself wanting to NOT agree with him.

As to the points, in each instance you've basically said that if the child is behaving badly, they should be corrected. Of course they should.

But a child is not automatically in the wrong.

A parent might have good reasons for siding with a child. I'm grateful my parents did when I was a kid. I stood up to a bully and got in trouble for fighting, and I refused to accept punishment for it. My parents listened to me and accepted that I was defending myself.

A child can talk with adults as long as they realise the whole conversation doesn't revolve around them. My friends 4 year old is really excited about learning to ski and she will often sit with her dad and I as we talk about snowboarding trips and ask to see pictures or ask about mountains. She knows not to interrupt, but she also knows we won't tell her to be quiet either.

newtboysaid:

My mistake.
I'll admit, his delivery is going down hill these days. I've been a fan for a LONG time, but he's not as good as he once was by far.
I get especially annoyed when he gets upset when his audience groans at a bad taste joke, it's like he doesn't understand that's a POSITIVE reaction to a bad taste joke, and indicates his audience understands it's in bad taste. You would think he would know that after 3+ decades in snarky 'comedy'.

To your points....
When a parent takes the kids side over the teachers....well, that depends on what the issue is, but on it's face that's also coddling. The implication/infrence is that it would be about the child's behavior in class, or their academic performance, and in either case taking the child's side over the teacher is teaching them that they are more important than the authority, and/or that their word is going to be taken over an adult in authority, and their POV or opinion is the only one that matters. That's terrible, and sets them up for failure and/or prison later.
Not telling a child to shut the fuck up when they are rudely interrupting adults DOES breed poorly mannered narcissists, as it's teaching the child that what they have to say is the MOST important thing, far more important than the adult discussion they are interrupting. That's terrible, bad manners, completely unrealistic, and not good for the child's development into a decent human being. Children are not adults, and 99.9% of the time what they want to say/ask is not important. Even in those rare cases where it is important, not teaching them to not interrupt creates mannerless narcissistic douchebags that never allow other people to speak and believe their every fleeting thought is golden.
Asking a kid where they want to go to dinner....OK, that's stupid. If you just ask them, the child isn't automatically in control. If you always ask them at every meal and defer to their whim over the wishes of adults (which is what I think he meant, but not what he said), that's coddling and breeding a narcissist that believes his is the only opinion that matters to anyone and should always take precedent over other's needs/wants.

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