>> ^LittleRed:
I'm not anti-porn; I'm anti-porn in relationships. I agree with gorgonheap 100%. Porn is destructive to healthy relationships.

I will agree that if porn is being used by one partner on their own then this can be true. If you are occasionally using it together as a special thing you do once in a while then this blanket statement is a load of crap.

Of course, even if you are using it together, if one of those in the relationship is only doing it because the other wants to, that too is not going to end well. But if you are a couple who occasionally likes to watch 'nice' porn together, there is NOTHING bad about that.

End of story, don't try to generalize yourself out of it... it all comes down to individuals.

I'm not anti-porn; I'm anti-porn in relationships. I agree with gorgonheap 100%. Porn is destructive to healthy relationships. I realize most of the guys on this site are porn connoisseurs and don't want to hear it. However, if you look at the research, you might be in for a surprise. From a 2004 Time article:

"[Psychologist] Mark Schwartz, director of the Masters and Johnson clinic in St. Louis, Mo., says porn not only causes men to objectify women—seeing them as an assemblage of breasts, legs and buttocks—but also leads to a dependency on visual imagery for arousal."

And I realize you [generalization] don't care for the site that thepinky references, but please just take a look at the quotes on this site. The last three are quotes from a book and from a researcher. I understand they're not what you want to hear, and you might think they're extreme cases - the second quote from a wife of a porn user certainly is. I have heard complaints similar to the ones Ana Bridges identifies. Women don't want to think their significant other is thinking about anyone but them when they're doing the deed. Use of pornography gets a lot of women second-guessing.

Dr. Phil has a message board dedicated to women whose lives and marriages have been torn apart because of porn. One woman: "...laying in bed hurt because he would rather be on the computer. Before porn I never found myself alone at bedtime." This is an excerpt from a great message from a women... I wish I could link to the individual messages.

"These days, if you're anti-porn, you're called "insecure" and "behind the times". I assure you it is because I HAVE self esteem that I'm anti-porn. These men are deluding themselves about what they're actually witnessing. It's all an ACT. It's PRETEND. And maybe that's just what they want...pretend sex. I have been through the whole porn thing with my ex...whom I was married to for over 20 years. I understand the pain of being lied to...and substitued. Porn IS a substitute...and if they don't think so, they're in denial about the whole thing. What better way for a man (or woman) to come home from a long hard day, and that night have a wonderfully emotional loving experience with the woman he professes to love?

...[hypothetical situation to another poster on the board] If he were the jealous sort, and his wife loved innocent, harmless flirting...yet it caused him considerable pain, isn't that along the same lines? HE would be asking her to stop doing something that *she* loved to do. Because it caused him PAIN. I just don't think these men understand the true amount of pain that this causes to the women. It has NOTHING to do with esteem issues."

She goes on, and I think it's a great post, but way too long to quote the entire thing.

For those of you disagreeing with the concept that porn is inherently wrong or bad, I agree to a point. Porn itself doesn't cause problems - porn in a relationship likely will.

Kickass.

In reply to this comment by MrFisk:
A fine quotation is a diamond on the finger of a man of wit, and a pebble in the hand of a fool.
- Joseph Roux

Old-timer hits major milestone:

http://geek.videosift.com/talk/Gorgonheap-goes-diamond-still-most-hated-creature-in-galaxy

Thanks! You know I was being a dork. I did already notice that link a while ago on your profile page! Love your avatar, you Gorgonheap you!

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
This should answer you question.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Ever-wonder-what-a-Gorgon-Heap-is

In reply to this comment by Issykitty:
Congratulations!!! By the way... what the heck is a GORGONHEAP??? YAY DIAMONDZZZZZZZZZ

Thanks guys.

Hmm, KP I gotta think a bit on those souvenirs, does a heat rash count? There was very little alcohol purchasing or the Fundie alarms would go off and they'd find me.

And Gorgonheaps get haircuts?

Um, sure I'll send the samples off to my doctor he's the best. Does anything I pay him for really good DNA analysis.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Not without DNA tests first, buddy.

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
Thanks for the congratulations post. I should have mentioned last time that you owe me about 18 years of child support. I'll need it by next Tuesday to pay off my loan shark.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
They'll throw a party for any jerk-off these days:

http://geek.videosift.com/talk/Gorgonheap-goes-diamond-still-most-hated-creature-in-galaxy

This should answer you question.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Ever-wonder-what-a-Gorgon-Heap-is

In reply to this comment by Issykitty:
Congratulations!!! By the way... what the heck is a GORGONHEAP??? YAY DIAMONDZZZZZZZZZ

It's ok, I don't get along with Utah either.

In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Well done, Mr. Heap. If I felt it was safe enough, I'd travel one state down and shake your hand personally. However, Utah and I do not get along. So instead, I'll just say, Congratulations!

Not without DNA tests first, buddy.

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
Thanks for the congratulations post. I should have mentioned last time that you owe me about 18 years of child support. I'll need it by next Tuesday to pay off my loan shark.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
They'll throw a party for any jerk-off these days:

http://geek.videosift.com/talk/Gorgonheap-goes-diamond-still-most-hated-creature-in-galaxy

Thanks for the congratulations post. I should have mentioned last time that you owe me about 18 years of child support. I'll need it by next Tuesday to pay off my loan shark.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
They'll throw a party for any jerk-off these days:

http://geek.videosift.com/talk/Gorgonheap-goes-diamond-still-most-hated-creature-in-galaxy

Thanks for the promote. I'll take the two dollars off the $10,000 you owe me for not breaking your thumbs.

In reply to this comment by my15minutes:
congrats on the 250, heap!

*promote

ps. i want my two dollars.

congrats on the 250, heap!

*promote

ps. i want my two dollars.

Congratulations!!! By the way... what the heck is a GORGONHEAP??? YAY DIAMONDZZZZZZZZZ

In your scenario, pornography is a scapegoat for something deeper. If a healthy relationship doesn't already have porn involved, then bringing it in only confirms that the relationship was already in trouble. There is no possible way for pornography to ruin a healthy relationship; it can only deepen a divide that was already introduced.

The first time I saw a pornographic movie, I was 12 years old. And you know what? I didn't have a God-given sick feeling. I had a God-given erection.

And I'm really tired of hearing how porn changes the way different sexes view each other. When I was a child my mother taught me to respect women, and to treat them as equals. This was before I ever saw pornography.

I've now been viewing porn for 15 years, and I've seen nearly everything imaginable...and some things unimaginable. But my view of women outside that fantasy world has not changed. I still respect women. I open the door for them, I pull out the chair for them. And above all, I treat them as my equal, as is proper.

I am smart enough to separate the world of pornography from the world that surrounds me, because I understand the distinction between images on a screen and the wonderful women that I have met through the years. I will continue watching porn as long as it suits me, and I will never blur the line between fiction and reality.

>> ^gorgonheap:
Pornography is ultimately deconstructive to healthy relationships. Just about any marriage councilor will confirm this. It degrades those involved with it. Some may disagree with it that but everyone should remember the sick feeling that accompanys the first few time one sees pornography. That's , in my opinion, a God given instinct to turn away from the filth.
Yes porn is attractive, especially to the male psyche. But it's incredibly damaging to ones relationships and how they view members of the opposite sex.