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lucky760 (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine says...

My point is that, yes, it's a tough situation, but maybe screaming at someone while pointing a gun at them is not the way to diffuse it.

Reality is not black and white. It's complicated.

Maybe if they'd gotten out of the car and said "what seems to be the problem here?" the whole thing might have gone down differently. Instead they went in gung ho and 20 seconds later, the guy is dead.

But you're right, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Will be interesting to see what the inquest says.

lucky760 said:

The problem is you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

On the one hand you're saying you know how dangerous a guy with a knife is. That being the case, you know that as close as he was to one of the officers, he could have murdered the officer if the officer attempted anything other than to completely stop him (by killing him).

And on the other hand you're saying the officer should consider the guy's mental well-being. Okay, and do what about it, try to talk him into seeking counseling?

There is no such thing as "containing the situation" when "the situation" is a guy standing a very close distance to you with a knife and approaching. There's no talking to him, no tasing him, no tossing a net over him... there's nothing that will guarantee he won't stab you except shooting him.

Still on a third hand you're staying it's part of an officer's job to risk his life to deal with the threat instead of neutralizing it, but that you feel officers shouldn't gamble with their lives. Those two concepts are completely contradictory.

It's quite a thing to realize he's dead within 20 seconds of the police arriving, but everything about that has zero bearing on his killing. When a guy is approaching an officer with a knife within seconds of their arrival, he's not going to call out to the guy and bystanders to ask them if the guy was showing aggression to anyone else because why in the fuck would that matter. He's directly showing aggressive intent towards the officers themselves for goodness' sake! Nothing that happened before that matters.

If as a cop your life is in imminent danger, the guy's mental state, what he did before you arrived, what alternatives to a gun *might* stop him or "contain" him... NONE of that matters because THERE IS A GUY COMING TOWARDS YOU WITH A KNIFE. That's all the cops were thinking and that's all they needed to be thinking when they decided they had to to shoot him to have as close to a 100% chance of survival as possible.

To summarize: Guy approaches you menacingly with a knife, you. must. shoot. him, if you want to attempt to guarantee you're not going to die.

BUT

we can agree to disagree.

lucky760 (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine says...

Just for the record I am well aware of how dangerous a knife can be. And no, I don't feel that police officers should "gamble with their lives".

I feel they should use the training they're supposed to have and the tools they do have instead of just shooting the guy.

Watch the video again. The police don't arrive until 1:20. Before that the guy is just standing around. People pass within feet of him and he doesn't show any aggression. He's dead 20 seconds later. 20 fucking seconds.

He was clearly mentally unwell, but they didn't even try to contain the situation.

If you really think that's acceptable.... well, once again, I'm just glad I live in a civilised country.

lucky760 said:

Finally a voice of reason. So very glad I'm not all alone on this. Thanks for chiming in.

It's such an obvious thing, but maybe only to people who are aware how dangerous a guy with a knife can be that nearby.

(But still, @ChaosEngine seems to be aware of that and still thinks the officers should be obligated to gamble with their lives.)

lucky760 (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine says...

I get what you're saying, I just think the title reads as "homemade-drone video" whereas you obviously meant it as "amateur drone-video".

I just got a GoPro myself and I cannot tell you how tempted I am to buy one of these Apparently you can even get them to follow you down a track or mountain. Awesome bit of kit

lucky760 said:

It's homemade because it's just some guy who bought a drone and flew it around composing professional-looking videos.

I wouldn't imagine he'd have to build a drone from spare parts and only record video inside his home for it to be validly considered homemade.

newtboy (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine says...

Don't even bother. It's like arguing with a conspiracy theorist.

newtboy said:

Really. Seemed a simple question of which side of this you're on, one that you can't answer (apparently because to be on the side of what's obviously 'right' you have to be against the anti-Obama sentiment, which seems to be quite a quandary)
Really, you can't even take a position on the constitution? I just find that odd. I'll state clearly I'm for it, as the alternative is terrible.
I'm guessing the ' I don't know that the cop was anti-Obama.' is the 'joking' part of your reply? I'll just hope you aren't really that insanely intentionally dense.
It's totally a 'one against the other' here, the cop, angry at Obama, uses the misinformation talking heads gave him (that Obama has destroyed the constitution) as an excuse to not perform his duties and to actually do the opposite by breaking the laws and flaunting it on video.
Not everything is pro-this or against-that...but when you base your argument on ridiculous right wing pro-anger anti-Obama talking points and then use that false argument to shirk your legal duty and/or break the law, it is.

newtboy (Member Profile)

Coulthard on team orders

ChaosEngine says...

nah, it's just fucking boring and completely unrelated to the thread at hand. @gorillaman is clearly just trolling and has confused me for someone who gives a fuck.

chingalera said:

No dude, you're just getting started being called to the mat and you slinkety-slink the fuck away???

-Callin' real-time-jewels of Papier-mâché on a comment as flaccid as the sack there sagging and displaying their feather-like weight....Faced with truth, the sophist...deliberately obtuse at times and otherwise generally hostile has but the tinny-sounding bell-tinkle heralding a hasty departure, as a familiar a fanfare as a copper's si-reen :0

dOUCHE + a bag = a lady's freshen-up-

Coulthard on team orders

ChaosEngine says...

Ohhh internet insults. Excuse me while I go cry in the corner from your cutting insight into my very soul.

We're done here.

gorillaman said:

Would you say drawing random hands of cards is what makes poker interesting?

Racing, by whatever limited definition I assume you're using that excludes all application of intellect, isn't one tenth of Formula 1.

Actually attending the events, incidentally, is quite the wrong way to appreciate the complexities of the game. It seems to me that you're nothing more than a shallow, gawping spectacle-whore.

Coulthard on team orders

ChaosEngine says...

Well, that's a useful and well though out comment.

Racing is what makes F1 interesting, and quite frankly, this kind of bullshit is exactly why it's viewership is declining.

I used to be a huge F1 fan. I've actually been to two grand prix (Hungarian and German) and even I don't really watch it anymore.

gorillaman said:

Strategy is what makes F1 more interesting to watch than other sports, which are typically just a bunch of sweaty morons running around on a lawn.

Team orders have always been a good thing and people who don't like them are intellectually and morally subhuman.

Susie Wolff makes F1 history at the British Grand Prix

ChaosEngine says...

Kinda disappointing we didn't actually see her drive. I know motorsport is physically demanding, but you would still imagine that a woman should be able to compete on an equal footing in an actual race.

Good luck to her, hope she actually gets a racing seat at some point.

oritteropo (Member Profile)

oritteropo (Member Profile)

oritteropo (Member Profile)

oritteropo (Member Profile)

lucky760 (Member Profile)

newtboy (Member Profile)

ChaosEngine says...

Thanks man,
I actually moved here from Ireland about 10 years ago, and yeah, it's a pretty awesome place. I certainly consider it home now.

It's not without it's own problems, but where is? On the whole, the people are really friendly, and the environment's still in pretty good shape. Now, we just to make sure the current government doesn't mess it up.

newtboy said:

ChaosEngine,
Just a side note after reading your comments...I visited NZ in the late 80's. You have the most beautiful country and nicest, most polite people of any place I've ever visited. Just thought I'd complement you and yours.
-Newtboy



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