>> ^poolcleaner:
>> ^gwiz665:
I have no problem with a restaurant adding an extra fee if you are a big group, but I have a problem when they try to call it a tip or gratuity. That's the whole issue, it's not gratuity, it's a bill. I pay tips in restaurants when I've gotten good service, or we had difficult orders or whatever - but I CHOOSE to pay it, I'm not forced to it.

Your opinion is skewed because 1) You don't live in America, and 2) You didn't work in the terrible food industry of America.
Before you start downvoting me and before you stop reading what I have to say, let me explain: I'm not against you not being American, (because that's a simple-minded way to go about judging people) but the food industry here is bullshit and the system (for lack of an actual person to blame) forces workers into this reality. When a tip is not paid by a customer, it's akin to docking a worker's pay. I know it doesn't make that much sense, but it's how things turned out over here. And it's as simple as that from a restaurant worker's perspective.
My next point is also important to your understanding: The total tips that a waiter/server makes at the end of the day is split up amongst the food runners, bussers, and barback, so not tipping has a trickle down effect to people who may have done their share of work yet who rely on the waiter to make their fair share.
It really is a shitty shitland of shit for the workers who live by these rules. I fault your ignorance of our food culture, not your ability to reason. I'd love to adopt the system you envision, but that means nothing in the short term and isn't too realistic.


Whether it actually is that way or not is not in question. Whether it is a bad thing is. And it is a bad thing. Like I said earlier, make a better system.

If they merely called it "staff fee" or something, then everyone would know what it was, but to disguise it as something nice, a tip, a donation, is deceitful. I don't blame this particular restaurant, I blame the system. Hence my, make a better society.

Just because some countries have sweatshops doesn't mean they should.

>> ^poolcleaner:
The total tips that a waiter/server makes at the end of the day is split up amongst the food runners, bussers, and barback, so not tipping has a trickle down effect to people who may have done their share of work yet who rely on the waiter to make their fair share.
It really is a shitty shitland of shit for the workers who live by these rules.


Yeah, I have a shitty job with shit policies and shit pay, too.

I totally agree it's a shitty deal for workers who live by those rules. Who is responsible for those rules? Is the customer to blame? Am I supposed to feel bad about it? It's unfortunate, but place the blame where it is due.

I think it's reasonable to be annoyed that I, the customer, am expected to pay part of the server's wages as a courtesy to the restaurant owner/industry. Lazy/asshole restaurant owners need to pay their employees properly and stop passing the buck onto their customers.

I hate knowing that my tip is evenly distributed to everyone else, including other servers. It's a corrupt and unfair system. Where's the incentive to provide good service?

>> ^gwiz665:
I have no problem with a restaurant adding an extra fee if you are a big group, but I have a problem when they try to call it a tip or gratuity. That's the whole issue, it's not gratuity, it's a bill. I pay tips in restaurants when I've gotten good service, or we had difficult orders or whatever - but I CHOOSE to pay it, I'm not forced to it.


Your opinion is skewed because 1) You don't live in America, and 2) You didn't work in the terrible food industry of America.

Before you start downvoting me and before you stop reading what I have to say, let me explain: I'm not against you not being American, (because that's a simple-minded way to go about judging people) but the food industry here is bullshit and the system (for lack of an actual person to blame) forces workers into this reality. When a tip is not paid by a customer, it's akin to docking a worker's pay. I know it doesn't make that much sense, but it's how things turned out over here. And it's as simple as that from a restaurant worker's perspective.

My next point is also important to your understanding: The total tips that a waiter/server makes at the end of the day is split up amongst the food runners, bussers, and barback, so not tipping has a trickle down effect to people who may have done their share of work yet who rely on the waiter to make their fair share.

It really is a shitty shitland of shit for the workers who live by these rules. I fault your ignorance of our food culture, not your ability to reason. I'd love to adopt the system you envision, but that means nothing in the short term and isn't too realistic.

In all honesty I usually get good service. We mostly eat in Durham or Chapel Hill, lots of good places there.

Specific anecdotal example: A night out last week we got seated and didn't see a waiter/waitress for something like 15 minutes. It wasn't late, and the place was half-full, but it turns out that the hostess had seated us in the section of a waitress who was on her break. Hostesses mistake, no big deal. So the manager is walking around asking people how they are doing, and I jokingly mentioned that we'd be a lot better with beers in front of us. He apologized and took our drink order, and appeared in minutes with beers and an app.

The meal turned out great, everything was good, and I was perfectly satisfied. Then they comped the meal, which was ++. In return I left a tip equal to twenty percent of the original value, and good reviews on appropriate food blogs.

In the scenario described in the original video, the primary problem is an overall lack of communication from all parties involved.

^ I don't have a problem with the idea of "compulsory" gratuities, but it has to be contingent on the quality of the service. Bringing 6 or more people into an establishment should not give the house free reign to give you shitty service. It's only as compulsory as the customers are willing to allow it to be. It's not a service charge, therefore it's not stealing if a customer refuses to pay it.

I believe in tipping, I'm a good tipper. If you can't afford the tip, then you can't afford the meal, that's what I say. But if I get bad service, I certainly let the waiter/restaurant know it, and I will tip according to the response.

OK..., So after reading all the comments...
It's still choice, as I see fit!
Don't get me wrong, I tip 80% of the time but it dependent on my choice and the level of my bank account.

-ALSO
I believe the restaurants here in Canada charge more for a meal than they do in the US.
An adult meal can cost $12 - $25 before drinks and appetizers depending on the restaurant and the dish served.
Ad the $3-$4 for a bottomless pop, $8-$10 for an Appy, maybe another $5-$7 for a desert
(I'm not even going to count alcoholic drinks, $5-$8 per glass)
That's about $28 - $46 per person for everything. Adding an 18% tip ($5.04 - $6.28 per person) can and is a big deal to the average family.

A budget spender can get away with an average $15-$20 per person at a sit-down cafe, but a family of four (2 adults, 2 kids) still spends about $40-$60 for dinner at a restaurant while fifty dollars will buy you 3 meals a day at home for 3-5 days.

My point with all this is, leaving a tip costs me money. I spend my money as "I" see fit. If for some reason, I don't/can't leave one (this time),it will be my choice. Those which work in this environment (survival of the fittest), learn to give good service or suffer a lower paycheck. If the waiter/waitress is overworked because it is busy and can't give good service is more a reflection on the business/sweatshop for not providing proper staff coverage. It is not my job to compensate for their shortcomings.

I must also mention (off on a tangent): If I am with a larger group, we phone ahead or if it is on-the-spot, we ask if "it will be a problem" before even being seated. Either you can handle our group - or you can't.

If you don't like tipping, don't go out to eat. It's that simple.

You think you have a grasp on the system? Try talking to a waiter or waitress about it. (outside of their workplace) When you work in the industry for years, you get an almost sixth sense of the people who are going to tip and the people who aren't. If you knew the rules that most waiters use you'd probably find them to be completely racist and xenophobic but most food industry workers use the system to detemine who they're going to care about and who they aren't. Even if they won't admit it.

And if you think that's bad, I don't even want to get into what happens when a person who isn't likely to tip starts complaining. It turns my stomach just to think about it.

Whatever ideas you have about tipping, just remember that your waitr/waitress has they're own. And they're probably going to follow their own system rather than yours. Like it or not, that's the way it is.

That said, if you're a nice, reasonable customer, most servers aren't going to care what you tip them. Unless their weed supply is low.

>> ^blankfist:
It's easy to complain about a business when you've never invested money in a venture yourself. Most business owners are NOT billionaire fat cats with top hats and monocles. Most are working to make a living, and a lot of restauranteurs make less than the servers because of the debt and having to pay worker salaries first before paying theirs.
That aside, when these customers sat down to order they agreed to the mandatory tip. It would've been wise for the restaurant to comp them when they complained, but they certainly are not obligated to do so.
I rarely tip less than 20% unless the service is terrible. Even when mandatory I tend to add to it. I suppose I should move to Europe where they "make better society" and then I'd never have to reward people for their good work.


I think you are twisting my words. I know that restaurants are not a big faceless corporation with tons of cash and so on, that's not the issue. The issue is that a tip should not be mandatory - then it is a bill or a tax, or even as demon_ix says, fraud. "When they sat down they agreed to the mandatory tip" how should they know that? Did the restaurant advertise it to them or is it just implied? If all prices just happen to me 20% more expensive than what's listed, I'm inclined to say it's fraud too.

As a libertarian, I would have think you agreed with me on this, but a tip should not be a tax, it should be a donation. If you want to give the servers, the cook etc. extra money you are free to do so over here too, but it is your own choice.

When restaurant owners rely on tips to make up a decent wage for their employees, they are profiting on their employees good service instead of the employees doing that. That's (bad) exploitation. I like the more direct approach in Europe, where waiters get to keep the tips themselves on top of their wages, which would be enough. I suppose it's different when the minimum wage is almost $20, hence my "make better society".

Sorry for the copypasta, but someone needs to point this out.

gra⋅tu⋅i⋅ty
  [gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-]

–noun, plural -ties.
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.

>> ^swampgirl:
big H is Heroin, Quboid. Unfortunately, Billie Holiday was an addict for years. It along with alcohol ruined her health and she died in her 40s I believe.
Now she looks older here maybe this was performed in the early 50s. Since we don't know the date of the broadcast, I added to your tags 30s for when the song was release. Hope that's ok

Yeah it'd be pretty hard to tell the date of broadcast. She often closed with this song in her performances.

"Barney Josephson recognized the impact of the song and insisted that Holiday close all her shows with it. Just as the song was about to begin, waiters would stop serving, the lights in club would be turned off, and a single pin spotlight would illuminate Holiday on stage. During the musical introduction, Holiday would stand with her eyes closed, as if she were evoking a prayer."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Fruit

Turns out it was originally written by a Jewish high school teacher!

This guy checked out of a restaurant I worked at the best way I've ever seen. The exchange went something like this:

Waiter: here's your white wine, maam.
Woman: Oh, actually I ordered red wine.
Waiter: No, you ordered white wine.
Woman: No, I ordered a red wine.
Waiter: You ordered a fucking white wine, now fucking drink it!

He then slammed it down on the table, calmly walked out the back of the restaurant, clocked off, and never came back.

Admittedly, he was the worst waiter I've known, but a most memorable exit!

I skipped through most of the video and in the end they showed a black waiter.. my next skip forward they showed a black cook.

Its a slave boat.

It's almost ten o clock see i got a ball of lifted property
so i slid my beenie hat on sloppily
and promenade out to take up a collection
i got game like i read the directions
i 'm wishing that i had an automobile
as i feel the cold wind rush past
but let me state that i am a hustler for real
so you know i got the stolen bus pass
just as the bus pulls up and i step to the rear
this ole lady look like she drank a forty of fear
i see my ole school partner said his brother got popped
pay my respects
can you ring the bell we came to my stop
the street light reflects off the piss on the ground
which reflects off the hamburger sign as it turns round
which reflects off the chrome of the bmw
which reflects off the fact that i am broke
now what the fuck is new
i need loot i sweat the motherfucka
in the tweed suit
and i'm on his ass quicker than a kick from a grease boot
eased up slow and discreet
could tell he was suspicious by the way he slid his feet
didn't wanna fuck up the come on
so i smiled with my eyes said hey how it's hanging guy
bumped into his shoulders but he passed with no reaction
damn this motherfucka had a hella of andrew jacksons
i'm a thief or pickpocket give a fuck what you call it
used to call em fat cats.
i just call them wallets getting federal aint just a klepto
master card or visa i'd gladly accept those
sneaky motherfucka with a scam know how to pull it
got a mirror in my pocket but that wont stop no bullets
story just begun but you already know
aint no need to get down shit i'm already low

My footsteps echo in the darkness
my teeth clenched tight like a fist in the cold sharp mist
i look down and i hear my somach growling
step to burger king to attack it like a shaolin
i never pay for shit that i can get by doing dirt
link up to the girl cashier and start to flirt
all up in her face and her breath was like murder
damn the shit i do for a free hamburger
(girl )"well you got my number you gonna call me tonite"
it depends is them burgers attached to a price
"sorry sorry"
im just kidding i'ma call you write you love letters
"it's all good"
thanks for the burgers emm hook me up with a dr pepper.
(girl)thats cool you want some ice
yeah and some fries will be hella nice
(girl) damn my managers coming play it off okay have a nice day
im up outta here anyway
i use peoples before they use me
cos you could get got by an uzi over an oz
thats what an og told me
gots to find someplace warm and cozy to eat the vittles that i just got
came to an underground parking lot
this place is good as any fuck its all good
walked in found a car hopped itself up on a hood
ate my burger threw back my cola
somebody said hey it was a rented pig i thought it was a roller
"want me to call the cops?"
i dont want them to see me
looked down and saw that i was sitting on a lamboughini
it was rollses ferraris and jags by the dozen
a building door opened
damn it was my cousin
getting offa work dressed up no lie
tux cummerband and a blackbow tie
i was like hey
"who is it"
me
"oh whats up man i just quit this company
they hella racist and the pay was too low "
i said arite what was up in there though
"a party with rich motherfuckas i dont know the situation
i know they got cabbage owning corporations
ibm chryslers and shit is what they seeing"
just then a light bulb went off in my head
they be thinking all black folks is resembling
gimme your tux and i'll do some pocket swindling
fit the change in the bathroom and i freeze off my nuts
lets take a short break
while i get into this tux
grunt zipp
alright i'm ready

Fresh dressed like a million bucks
i be the flyiest muthafucka in an afro and a tux
my arm is at a right angle up silver tray in my hand
may i interest you in some caviar mam
my eyes shoots round the room there and here
noticing the diamonds in the chandelier
background barry manilow copacobana
and a strong ass scent of stoagies from havana
what no place where a brother might been
snobby ole ladies drinking champagne with rich white men
allrite then lets begin this
nights like this is good for business
five minutes in the mix noticed several diffrent cliques
talking giggling and shit
well one mother fucka gave me twits
and everbody else jacking it throttling
found out later you know coca cola bottling
talking to a black man who he's confused
we looking hella bourgie
ass all tight and seditty
recognzed him as the mayor of my city
who treats young black man like frank nitty
mr coke said to mr mayor "you know we got a process like ice t's hair
we put up the fund for your election campaign
and oh um waiter can you bring the champagne"
a real estate fronts as opportunities arousing
to make some condos out of low income housing
immediately we need some media heat
to say that gangs run the street and then we bring in the police fleet
harrasing me everbody till they look inebriated
when we bought the land motherfuckas will appreciate it
dont worry about the urban league or jesse jackson
my man that owns marlboros
donated a fat sum
thats when i step back some to contemplate what few know
sat down wrestle with my thoughts like a sumo
aint no one player that could beat this lunancy
aint no hustler on the street could do a whole community
this is how deep shit can get
it reads macaroni on my birth certificate
poontang is my middle name but i cant hang
i'm getting hustled
only knowing half the game
shit how the fuck do i get out of this place.

>> ^peggedbea:
i dont think personal liberty has a whole lot to do with it. americans tip well because we come from a culture where waitstaff depend on tips for survival. its expected of us. wait staff in the us make $2.13/hr wtf is so generous about that? not all industrialized nations have a corporate welfare system quite like ours where chain restaurants can legally pay workers below minimum wage, well below a living wage and leave the consumer to pick up the rest.
i did find this post amusing until libertarian assholery and bullshit nationalism douched it up.


Nationalism isn't exactly a defining characteristic of mine if that's what you're insinuating, but whatever. Actually if you've ever waited tables then you know workers do get minimum wage. The $2.50/hr or whatever it is is only the amount the employer has to cover if the waiter/waitress earns over minimum wage with their tips. If the waiter/waitress does not, however, then the restaurant must cover the difference.

Most wait staffers make decent money if they can become good at what they do. I sucked at it and still made an okay living doing it. And, I tip no less than 20% typically.

>> ^blankfist:
Where countries pay into a nanny system, I can see why they'd want to hold their money close and lean towards being greedier. Those who have less taxes and more individual freedoms tend to give more. Also, Americans give the most to charities.

I'd say, the reason that you give a smaller tip in Germany for instance is that you know the waiter/waitress does not depend on tips to pay his/her rent. It has somewhat deteriorated over the last 20 years, but there's still a significant difference to some other cultures where tips are essential. I grew up in a pub in the country, again worked as a waiter during my first two semesters at university and was always paid well enough to pay the bills.