Watching the opening statements today, it seems there are far more than one example of former officials being tried for impeachment after leaving office, including one tried by the founding fathers themselves with unanimous consent, solidifying the notion that their intent was to allow trying former officials constitutionally even though they could not remove them since they were already out of office, but they could bar them from holding any office in the future.
When the people who wrote the constitution interpret it that way, I think that’s game over. No one knows their intent better than they did, and their actions of trying a senator, one who had already been removed from office, in an impeachment trial is unambiguous, more so when you read what they wrote about it.

We shall see if today’s senate cares more about constitutional obligations or blind loyalty to an individual. It’s a forgone conclusion that they won’t convict out of blind loyalty, but exposing the criminality they’re going to excuse still serves a purpose.

Edit: one purpose it serves is setting precedent....if this president can attempt to stop the peaceful (or not peaceful) transfer of power to the president elect by instructing a rabid armed violence prone crowd to “stop the steal” “you can’t let them certify Biden or your country is lost” “fight hard” “I’ll be there with you” without a single repercussion, so can the next one....and now the perpetrators know many of the weak points thanks to this disorganized coup attempt. Republicans should be terrified of that, enough to send a message by convicting. If they don’t, they invite every president that loses an election to attempt a January coup, precedent will protect them, so they would be obligated to try.

Absolutely, and boogaloo boys, militias, proud boys, etc. Anyone who lights fires is an arsonist. Arsonists should pay for 100% of the damage they cause, and any harm or death considered with forethought, intent, and malice.

Point of fact : Antifa isn't an organization, and isn't Democratic, they've repeatedly attacked democrats....and BLM publicly denounced all violence.

Also, should be noted that many arsons and all bombings and police shootings and drive by crowd shootings blamed on blm were in fact right wing activists trying to paint blm as violent, admitted by them after they were repeatedly caught and spelled out in their printed manifestos.

The March on the capitol was pure right wing trumptardedness, not in any way related to Antifa no matter how many magamorons lie about it to try to deflect responsibility. That lie is just so insane, 30 antifa led the thousands of seething Trumptards into insurrection they had no inclination to perpetrate despite the thousands of posts they posted in anticipation of and planning of the attack.....you know, of course they blindly followed their mortal enemies not their own memorialized plans. So stupid and blatantly false.

OMFG...can you even fucking read?
From your article I found on my own.....

...the forces of labor came together with the forces of capital to keep the peace and oppose Trump’s assault on democracy.

The handshake between business and labor was just one component of a vast, cross-partisan campaign to protect the election–an extraordinary shadow effort dedicated not to winning the vote but to ensuring it would be free and fair, credible and uncorrupted. For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions as they came under simultaneous attack from a remorseless pandemic and an autocratically inclined President. Though much of this activity took place on the left, it was separate from the Biden campaign and crossed ideological lines, with crucial contributions by nonpartisan and conservative actors. The scenario the shadow campaigners were desperate to stop was not a Trump victory. It was an election so calamitous that no result could be discerned at all, a failure of the central act of democratic self-governance that has been a hallmark of America since its founding.

Their work touched every aspect of the election. They got states to change voting systems and laws and helped secure hundreds of millions in public and private funding. They fended off voter-suppression lawsuits, recruited armies of poll workers and got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time. They successfully pressured social media companies to take a harder line against disinformation and used data-driven strategies to fight viral smears. They executed national public-awareness campaigns that helped Americans understand how the vote count would unfold over days or weeks, preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories and false claims of victory from getting more traction. After Election Day, they monitored every pressure point to ensure that Trump could not overturn the result. “The untold story of the election is the thousands of people of both parties who accomplished the triumph of American democracy at its very foundation,” says Norm Eisen, a prominent lawyer and former Obama Administration official who recruited Republicans and Democrats to the board of the Voter Protection Program.

For Trump and his allies were running their own campaign to spoil the election. The President spent months insisting that mail ballots were a Democratic plot and the election would be “rigged.” His henchmen at the state level sought to block their use, while his lawyers brought dozens of spurious suits to make it more difficult to vote–an intensification of the GOP’s legacy of suppressive tactics. Before the election, Trump plotted to block a legitimate vote count. And he spent the months following Nov. 3 trying to steal the election he’d lost–with lawsuits and conspiracy theories, pressure on state and local officials, and finally summoning his army of supporters to the Jan. 6 rally that ended in deadly violence at the Capitol.

You call that defrauding America? You are absolutely totally bat shit crazy, it describes a bipartisan effort defending democracy from Trump's baseless partisan attacks on it, on voting, and on truth....claiming if he doesn't win, it's rigged, if he wins, it's perfect. No where did anyone even imply voting machines defrauded anyone, it clearly states the obvious opposite, that they not only didn't have any serious issues, but also a physical paper backup that, in multiple recounts, still matched the results the machines gave.

You are such a non stop and just dumb liar. No doubt it effects your family life horribly.

No, but I like him. A British brother from another mother? Quite the loquacious perspicacity without a hint of my usual pedantic sesquipedalianism. ;-)

Disappointed that, when he brought up the "no true supporter of mine would ever resort to violence." he didn't remind us of Trump promising to pay the legal fees for anyone that would beat up reporters or liberal protesters at his rallies 5 years ago and never stopped supporting and calling for violence from his supporters.

If YOU would like some truth......my source is the Department of Homeland Security, not a disgraced propaganda site.
Right wing domestic terrorism is the most dangerous issue in America today besides the Trump pandemic.



The Department of Homeland Security issued a warning Wednesday to alert the public about a growing risk of attacks by “ideologically-motivated violent extremists” agitated about President Biden’s inauguration and “perceived grievances fueled by false narratives.”

DHS periodically issues such advisories through its National Terrorism Advisory System, but the warnings have typically been generated by elevated concerns about attacks by foreign governments or radical groups, not domestic extremists.

"violent riots have continued in recent days and we remain concerned that individuals frustrated with the exercise of governmental authority and the presidential transition, as well as other perceived grievances and ideological causes fueled by false narratives, could continue to mobilize a broad range of ideologically-motivated actors to incite or commit violence,” the statement read.

The most recent bulletins DHS has issued — both this month — warned the public about an elevated threat from Iran. No other bulletin in recent years has been issued to alert Americans about violence by domestic extremists.

“Throughout 2020, Domestic Violent Extremists (DVEs) targeted individuals with opposing views engaged in First Amendment-protected, nonviolent protest activity,” the bulletin states. “DVEs motivated by a range of issues, including anger over covid-19 restrictions, the 2020 election results, and police use of force have plotted and on occasion carried out attacks against government facilities.”

It added: “DHS is concerned these same drivers to violence will remain through early 2021 and some DVEs may be emboldened by the January 6, 2021 breach of the U.S. Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. to target elected officials and government facilities.”

The new bulletin will remain in place through April 30.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov

Sorry you caved so quickly. You can only wake a sleeping giant.

Hyperbolized like a true traitor, I'm speaking like a true patriot who's forefathers founded this great nation and who wants to prosecute 1/5 (70 million/350 million) of the country because they attempted a violent murderous coup, an overthrow of the American government by force, violence, and threats of violence, and around 60% of them think it was great and intend to try it again this week, not because they voted for a traitor, but because most still back him after the failed coup and intend to try again.

I would love to round you all up, put you on trial with exactly the same criteria members of ISIS/Daesh faced as members of a terrorist organization, and give you all the same treatment you all cheered on when it was done to brown skinned people. (Just one reason I shouldn't be appointed supreme leader) They/you are members of a violent, anti America terrorist organization and movement. Do you think Daesh members should be set free if you cannot prove they directly killed someone but can prove they are active Daesh members, including those who say clearly they support the anti American violence and terrorism and are just waiting for an opportunity to plan more attacks? A slap on the wrist is inappropriate. Letting it slide is not just inappropriate, it's incredibly dangerous and unpatriotic...indeed that would be giving comfort to enemies of the state, a crime itself.

Anyone that crossed police lines actively attacked America and democracy. That precludes them from being patriotic (unless you mean patriotic to Iran or some other foreign adversary), and it makes them enemy combatants. Those usually get the death penalty. When they are American citizens it's called treason. Does this describe you?

Where in his speech did he incite rioting, mayhem, storming the gates or any acts of violence.
No dog whistles used either( just fake news to dump on trump)..Even teh media wont play what he said because there isn't anything there, just their fake spin.

He didn't.

If you think he did, show it.

You cant because it does not exist. Which means this fake impeachment is pure BS.

@newtboy not quite over yet, they still need to hunt down the Americans who tried to overthrow their own government and install a dictator. https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence

$1,000-$50,000 rewards

I guess you won't want to bet anymore eh bob? You know what let's forget all of them. You and me will ride off into the sunset like Thelma and Louise. When we got the bottom of the canyon, it'll be a shock, but you'll awake a new man! Disallusioned and ready to fight for neo feminism just like Susan Sarandon.


Or ... I suppose, an alternative is we can just change the terms of the bet. I don't know if I'm willing to put $1,000 on this anymore. But I probably bet 50 bucks that Trump's going to end up in jail. I need a relatively short time span maybe like some escalating scale like we could do $25 a month double or nothing each month. like I'd put $10 he's going to be in jail in the first month.

You have my contact, you call me you know where I am.

Meanwhile! It's so nice to hear all these trump cult members denouncing the republican party. $10 on that jail thing, and $10 says that in the first month is disillusioned supporters are going to hunt him down like a dog.

Not enough by far, by design. Only 1/4 of the capitol police were on duty for this advertised riot/attack on democracy. Offers of backup from DC police and the national guard were refused. Normal non violent events usually have at least double that number, the non violent BLM protests at BLM park (the whitehouse) had over 7500 law enforcement officers stationed for days, this advertised armed attack and trial by combat had what, <500? Almost half of those were diverted to the two seperate live bombs the terrorists set, yet they still refused offers of more officers and didn't even call in off duty capitol police....good thing, they were busy being part of the riot. The FBI had many indications the Trump crowd planned unprecedented violence, dozens if not hundreds of messages calling for murder of BLM and Antifa members, murder of representatives, murder of anyone trying to stop their coup. "Either we get our president or die fighting for him" was a typical message. Rally points in other states discussed. "This is not a March, not a protest, it's war, come ready for battle." Read numerous others.
Turns out in many cases the barricades were useless because cops refused to use them and allowed people to walk through or around. They have been successfully used uncountable times before, but we’ve never had capitol police themselves be part of the mob, and with so many off duty cops and military in the crowd they thought, like at their job, the rules don’t apply to them or those with them. They talked their coworkers off the line in MANY instances, flashing their badges to gain entry then helping other rioters through.

Even if they weren’t stopping everyone, that’s not a reason to remove them so they stop no one. That’s asinine, I suppose you leave your front door open because your windows won’t stop a determined home invader?

Is your point that a fence that has openings is useless....hmmm...I recall someone else that was willing to divide and bankrupt the nation over a 1/2 of a fence...who was that?

Then you're a disingenuous fool and apologist for/supporter of domestic terrorism and sedition, which are a bit more serious than a few cases of arson, there were enough firebombs confiscated to burn the building to the ground, at least two working bombs activated, and an attempted coup including mobs roaming the halls of congress looking to murder representatives including the VP.

If it was a right wing plot you would probably call 9-11 mostly peaceful, only 19 of the 30000 involved did anything wrong.

More like 10-15000, and 1000-1500 smashed in armed with guns, bombs, and molotovs chanting about killing representatives, the rest just attacked the outside and police, set up a hanging stand complete with noose, and stood guard for those inside.

Show me this reporter standing in front of a burning building calling it a peaceful protest, not a protest that became a riot. I challenge you. I can probably find video of every single democrat representative denouncing the summer violence, i can find you video of Republicans gleefully supporting the crowd of terrorists, and even the president supporting them and telling the terrorist mob he loves them.

What's up your ass? Nazi facebook got shunned and grandpa hitler wannabe got kicked off social media?

Hey, look,




I'm sorry you got duped.
But that doesn't give anyone the right to do what they did.
LETS BE CLEAR
People forced their way into the capitol building through violence. They hung up a noose https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/noose-hung-outside-capitol/ and when inside the building they were chanting 'FIGHT FOR TRUMP FIGHT FOR TRUMP FIGHT FOR TRUMP' until the president tweeted about Mike Pence's disloyalty, then they started with "WHERE IS PENCE, WHERE IS PENCE?

If you know anyone who was at the rally and stormed the capitol, please contact the FBI
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/washingtondc/news/press-releases/fbi-seeking-information-related-to-violent-activity-at-the-us-capitol-bu
ilding
https://preview.tinyurl.com/yyq8xcba (link is too long)

They are wanted as person's of interest, suspected of terrorism.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/capitol-rioters-prison-trump-executive-order-federal (link is too long) copy+paste

$50k for anyone associated with the pipe bombs https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/08/954845870/u-s-capitol-flag-will-fly-at-half-staff-fbi-issues-rew
ard-over-pipe-bombs


------------##########------------
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Look, I believe that you believe what you're saying, okay?

Let me make one last red rover talk with you, maybe you'll come on back to reality.
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Here's the argument for Georgia, laid out in point by point sections


1.--------------------------------
Do you know any Trump supporters who don't trust the election?

From 2018 so before the current bullshit; though it's worth pointing out that Trump also claims that the 2016 election that he fucking won was a fraud.

"Results from a new Grinnell College National Poll give insights into which citizens lack confidence in the November 2018 election. As it turns out, white conservatives, despite accusations of election fraud from President Trump and several outspoken conservative leaders, are neither the only groups concerned about the accuracy of the 2018 vote count nor the groups most concerned. The poll’s results also uncover how a lack of confidence in the vote count is linked with voter turnout "
https://bit.ly/2VooAMS

I would argue that's contributed to a suppression of turnout. See also # 10 on my list here.


2.--------------------------------

https://apps.npr.org/elections20-interactive/#/house

The democrats lost a chunk of seats in the house of reps.
Flip flip flip flip flip flip
All that, all the Democrat plot to steal the election? That's some 7d chess right there. Secret dem plot = elect republicans. (it's the same ticket as the presidential vote) Can't trust people who voted Republican? Is that it? Throw those votes out?


3.-------------------------------
Arguing a that a technicality should disqualify votes doesn't mean that Americans' vote count is inaccurate. And if those votes' certification is invalid, why did Republican senators and Congress people from those states take their offices on Jan 2nd?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>They are voted in on the same ballot that the vote for president is cast on. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If they genuinely think and believe it was a scam, why did they show up to Washington and take office on the basis of so-called fraudulent ballots? If those ballots are frauds, what are those Republicans doing seated in those congressional seats?

Also, if that rule change is so bad, and absentee ballots are so fraudulent and can't be trusted, why did the Republican party in that state send a absentee ballot to every Republican who voted in the last election? You'd have to throw out ~700,000 republican votes as well. Don't their votes count?


4.-------------------------------

Mitt Romney is an absolute asshole and he supports policy i strongly disagree with, but at least he's honest and seems to speak with an appeal to integrity. I think I saw his outrage at his own party spilling out of his head during the objection hearing.

But he's been an R his whole life? Cant be trusted?

Mitch McConnel is like a RPG character that someone dumped all the skill points into "fuck these rules, I'm getting my way" He will do anything, cast off nearly any rule to advance republican politics. He is against this. No one, only one man can be trusted ???

Mike pence is the most republican motherfucker around, and he does not endorse this, which party are you with?



5.------------------------------

The senators objecting were right the cases didn't progress to a hearing, and were all "without standing" or were unable to even make a claim, with Rudy going into court and when the judge flatly asks him if he's suing for fraud,
'is this a fraud case ? '

>>>>>>>>>>>>>RUDY - "NO"
"No we do not"
( O_O) ?

The judge explains that maybe he did allege fraud at some point, but not in the paper work he filed currently in front of the judge. (EVEN JUDGE JUDY DON'T ALLOW THAT SHIT)

WOULD YOU LIKE THE AUDIO OF THAT?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4925496/user-clip-alleging-fraud

Finally, after some linguistic dancing, the judge revisits the topic, bookending that clip. ”Does the Amended complaint include fraud with particularity ?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>RUDY - "NO YOUR HONOR"



6.-------------------------------------------

So all of my
X Y Z cant be trusted?
Add McConnel and Pence



7.------------------------------------------

Maybe you are taking trump literally, not seriously? You're supposed to do "seriously, not literally" i've heard. Maybe he seriously won the election...
...but not literally, actually, or in-fact.



8.------------------------------------------

So only one man can be trusted? Only one man with the power? He used to hint at not conceding, now he's hinting at no more elections.

is that the way of a democracy or a republic? NO MORE ELECTIONS, THEY CANT BE TRUSTED UNLESS I WIN
???What good are elections? Why would we need those? They're all stolen anyway right ?



9.------------------------------------------

The states that made a difference and flipped from red to blue. Red, they were already red. Red as in Republicans won previous elections there and we're in charge of the local government and election boards in each case.
REPUBLICANS CERTIFIED EACH OF THOSE STATES.
HENCE THE FLIPPING,
THEY CERTIFIED IN DECEMBER,
BEFORE THEIR REPLACEMENTS ARRIVED.


10.-----------------------------------------

Democrats have been doing the work of flipping Georgia for 30 years, for democrats, that's how they flipped the state.

[The Daily] The Georgia Runoffs, Part 1: ‘We Are Black Diamonds.’ #theDaily
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/117319937 via @PodcastAddict

They interview Stacy Abraham's here^ and she speaks at length about the decades long process to flip Georgia, and all the fundraising they did during that time

There is also a sister episode where republican campaign officials are interviewed and they discuss how they are not prepared in Georgia because they thought that state was a lock, still they could have pulled it off, but voter turnout was being suppressed because people were being told it was a fraud. There is a telling moment where the two R senators up for election in Georgia are on stage but the crowd just keeps chanting TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP to the point that they are unable to speak to the crowd
[The Daily] The Georgia Runoffs, Part 2: ‘I Have Zero Confidence in My Vote’ #theDaily
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/117362059 via @PodcastAddict

>>>>>>>>>>>Notable,
the interviewer tries and tries but can't find a republican who will say they have confidence in their vote at the Georgia rally.


>>>>>>>>>Finally<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>Finally<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>Finally<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>Finally<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>Finally<<<<<<<<<
"To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th."

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 8, 2021

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Come on.

Stop.

It's over.

You're defending people who planted pipe bombs in the capitol building of the United States of America.

It doesn't matter how you cut it, that!

THAT!

Is NOT right.








Edit: And we're actually a mixture of both a republic and a democracy. There are regular instances on the people voting on laws directly.

Whatever happens, I hope Republicans keep doing what they're doing, because they are losing every election since trump and then some ...shithead.

Even after the armed rioting Tuesday, capitol police continued to refuse offers of additional officers or national guard help, knowing full well that armed violence was pre planned by the president himself and tens of thousands had shown up to participate, many armed.

It’s impossible to believe their lack of readiness and/or response was anything but intentional and coordinated. The chief needs to be prosecuted, not allowed to retire with benefits and his pension intact.

But no liberal leaders supported the summer riots...often sparked by right wingers committing arson, shooting into crowds, shooting police, repeatedly trying to set bombs where they would kill, and even by police caught on camera directing vandalism and letting white arsonists and murderers walk away, liberal leadership immediately condemned all violence and looting.

Conversely, the leader of the right called for this march on congress and the “combat” that followed. Other Republican representatives have excused it, explained it away, and now are already denying it, claiming those were all ANTIFA dressed as Trumpsters, with white power tattoos, full MAGA regalia, guns, bombs, Molotov cocktails, etc shouting “stop the steal” as they violently attacked police and congress in Trump’s name and at his instruction.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming, but only from one party. Democrats are consistent in condemning mob violence, republicans love it when it suits them.

*doublepromote *quality

@bobknight33 , how are you going to spin this treason at Trump’s specific direction to be Democrats fault? I hope you were there, every person who can be identified is an accomplice to murder (the woman who died is on your hands), a treasonous traitor who attacked America, and a person guilty of vandalizing federal property which Trump claims he made a minimum 10 years by itself. Your party went from anti American to enemies of the state yesterday, you might want to burn all that MAGA crap you own before they enter your home and drag you off if you ever want out of prison....granted most of these terrorists deserve the firing squad, their supporters just deserve a decade in Guantanamo.

That goes for the capitol police too, they were at least in part complicit, not deploying ahead of the well advertised riot, not using force when they were beaten, pepper sprayed, and threatened at gunpoint. Compared to their BLM response they were cheering on this attack on democracy and showing the kind of restraint that doesn’t border on being complicit, it dives over the line into the deep end of the treason pool.

Trump himself is guilty of directly instigating these riots. How do you like the way he lied to you, saying he’s going to be there then slinking off home instead to watch his mob do their thing? Don’t think for a second that not going excuses his leading of the group, instructing them where and when to attack, or his self serving lies he’s told you to rile them up into a murderous rage. He’s going to be prosecuted over this, maybe removed from office too.

Enjoy, the world now agrees, Trump leads a terroristic, unpatriotic mob of morons willing to commit violence against police and the federal government if they can’t have their way. You should all be put in re-education camps like China did with the uighers with Trump’s explicit support....since you’re incapable of being educated, that’s for life.

Traitor.