>> ^mentality:

@Fletch
"You'll have to stop barking first."
Classy. Nice tone you set for the rest of the discussion.
"Not surprised that you have nothing to say about this, as it is, probably, the primary reason so many former Diablo players won't be playing D3.
How many is so many? Did you do a survey? Diablo's core audience, many of whom continue to play D2 to this day, are those who played D2 on BNET. That's where the meat of the game is, and that's where the community is built around. Who do you think Blizzard keeps on patching and adding new content for, more than a decade after D2's release?
" Nothing in D2 required you to go to "sketchy websites" and spend money. [...] Sure, you still don't have to, but both drops and crafting have been nerfed in order to encourage spending."
Did you know that D2 had a huge online item black market? It has basically the same effect as an auction house, except people had to go to 3rd party vendors for it. But guess what? This kind of stuff only matters if you're playing on the ladder. Want to have a nice quiet solo game, or run through the game with a few friends? Who the hell cares if you have elite gear? Play the beta - they definitely did NOT nerf drops and crafting.
The rest of your post is nonsense. D3's stash size is 10x7, larger than the one in D2. And blizzard manipulating drop rates for players depending on their auction house usage? That's just pure bullshit.
Have you even played D2 or kept up with all the interface "streamlining" in D3 at all? Those pets I mentioned above don't do anything except pick up your gold. Talk about "dumbed-down". This game is headed for consoles.
Those pets were removed from the game due to player feedback. "Streamlining" - have you even played the beta? The additional skill slots make this game LESS console friendly than D2. Face it, D2 was already perfect for consoles. And Torchlight? ALREADY on consoles.
SOME randomized dungeons, last I read. Although, if I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. I said "linear", not "non-random". One does not mean the other. I have little hope you can understand the difference. I'll try to use them both in a sentence for you later.
I said randomized dungeons and quests. If the first time you play the game you get quests ABC, and the second time you play the game you get quests XYZ instead, is that NON-LINEAR enough for you? It looks like you're the kind of person who, rather than play a game, justs makes up bullshit instead and then bitch about it.
Oh, please. The textures look like they shot primary-colored paint balls onto an easel and captured it through a shear stocking.
Like I said, people seem to forget D2's graphics. In D2 you were fighting against red, green, blue, yellow colored monsters while your character was decked out in purple. D2 was cartoony. D3 is less. You complain about D3 being cartoony, then you talk about playing Torchlight? Are you fucking kidding me?
It's Blizzard's loss, not mine. I don't get too emotionally attached to "things". With Torchlight2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and even Legend of Grimrock in the works, I won't miss D3 one bit.
With D3's sales, I doubt Blizzard will miss you one bit. And the Diablo community won't miss you one bit. One less whiny brat to clog up the BNET forums.


Ugh...

Ok, you win, Fanboy. Have fun. I hope it lives up to all your dreams.

@Fletch

"You'll have to stop barking first."

Classy. Nice tone you set for the rest of the discussion.

"Not surprised that you have nothing to say about this, as it is, probably, the primary reason so many former Diablo players won't be playing D3.

How many is so many? Did you do a survey? Diablo's core audience, many of whom continue to play D2 to this day, are those who played D2 on BNET. That's where the meat of the game is, and that's where the community is built around. Who do you think Blizzard keeps on patching and adding new content for, more than a decade after D2's release?

" Nothing in D2 required you to go to "sketchy websites" and spend money. [...] Sure, you still don't have to, but both drops and crafting have been nerfed in order to encourage spending."

Did you know that D2 had a huge online item black market? It has basically the same effect as an auction house, except people had to go to 3rd party vendors for it. But guess what? This kind of stuff only matters if you're playing on the ladder. Want to have a nice quiet solo game, or run through the game with a few friends? Who the hell cares if you have elite gear? Play the beta - they definitely did NOT nerf drops and crafting.

The rest of your post is nonsense. D3's stash size is 10x7, larger than the one in D2. And blizzard manipulating drop rates for players depending on their auction house usage? That's just pure bullshit.

Have you even played D2 or kept up with all the interface "streamlining" in D3 at all? Those pets I mentioned above don't do anything except pick up your gold. Talk about "dumbed-down". This game is headed for consoles.

Those pets were removed from the game due to player feedback. "Streamlining" - have you even played the beta? The additional skill slots make this game LESS console friendly than D2. Face it, D2 was already perfect for consoles. And Torchlight? ALREADY on consoles.

SOME randomized dungeons, last I read. Although, if I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. I said "linear", not "non-random". One does not mean the other. I have little hope you can understand the difference. I'll try to use them both in a sentence for you later.

I said randomized dungeons and quests. If the first time you play the game you get quests ABC, and the second time you play the game you get quests XYZ instead, is that NON-LINEAR enough for you? It looks like you're the kind of person who, rather than play a game, justs makes up bullshit instead and then bitch about it.

Oh, please. The textures look like they shot primary-colored paint balls onto an easel and captured it through a shear stocking.

Like I said, people seem to forget D2's graphics. In D2 you were fighting against red, green, blue, yellow colored monsters while your character was decked out in purple. D2 was cartoony. D3 is less. You complain about D3 being cartoony, then you talk about playing Torchlight? Are you fucking kidding me?

It's Blizzard's loss, not mine. I don't get too emotionally attached to "things". With Torchlight2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and even Legend of Grimrock in the works, I won't miss D3 one bit.

With D3's sales, I doubt Blizzard will miss you one bit. And the Diablo community won't miss you one bit. One less whiny brat to clog up the BNET forums.

While my desktop is not as new as it could be, neither is my kids desktop - My laptop however is brand new. We run Diabo II on all three systems and play in groups together. The interface is simple enough, that my son(now 10) has been playing it since he was 6 and my daughter (now 14) since she was around 8 or 9. Only recently did we buy extra copies so we could all play together. Great bonding times with the kids

Like the addicted fool that I am, I am currently running 8 non-ladder characters and 10 laddered characters. My kids both have at least 5 characters each as well. I must also comment that my kids are straight-A students and we only play when the homework and chores are done.

Also, If you haven't played in a while, you may not know that they are still adding new stuff to the game. Like Extra hidden quests and rewards. Not that it would matter to you since you don't play it any more.

And yes, I realize there are newer games out there but I don't sink much money into games. Diablo is a new game every time. It's like the old board games (Monopoly). You can play it again and again and you don't need to toss it out after playing it once. My wife budget doesn't allow me to always buy the newest on the shelf and I'm actually ok with that

It's the multi-player that keeps us playing now. At one point, I quit playing but the kids showed an interest so we went multi-player. I hate when my kids tune out playing solo games. Interaction with others during playtime is important. I like that we can all sit in the same room and play, and talk and joke around while playing on the computer and interact on-screen.

*Working hard to raise my kids as Geeks - Fanboy Style

In reply to this comment by ant:
D2 is so old to me. I assume you have an old PC. Check out Torchlight too, but the first game has no multiplayer.

In reply to this comment by Sagemind:
Highly Adictive. Diablo 3 looks pretty good but I'm expecting it to be pay-per-use similar to WOW. I also expect it to be more processor and memory intensive than my box can handle. I'm not buying a new computer just so I can play it so I guess I'll be immune to their new brand of digital crack

In reply to this comment by ant:
Nah, it's not me. I haven't played Diablo 2 for almost a decade. I sold the games (including its expansion) to the store for $20. I am waiting for Diablo 3, but I wonder if I will even have time for it?


In reply to this comment by Sagemind:
Hey Ant,

Do you play Diablo II?

I've been playing quite a bit with my kids lately and noticed someone else on there with the user name Ant. Most likely it's just coincidence but thought I'd check just in case.

Let me know if it's you,
Cheers!

Dragonball almost made me not post it.

Torchlight yes. Diablo, yes. Old Republic & Guild Wars, maybe. Skyrim, yes. Duke, maybe. Dues Ex, maybe (the cinematic is almost enough). H of MM 6. we'll see. Diablo is my highest.

>> ^EMPIRE:

Yeah right... Top 5 most anticipated games of 2011 if you only care about RPG's.
There's such a lack of obvious games it's mind boggling. Where's Portal 2 (i know it already came out, but it came out in 2011), where's LA NOIRE, where's Skyrim, where's Rage, where's Mass Effect 3, where's Duke Nukem Forever (i know... but it still counts), etc...


1. Upcoming games, so no Portal 2.
2. Mass Effect 3 is slated for 2012.
3. Rage and Duke Nukem Forever don't look all that fun to me, but I hope they prove me wrong. Also, Duke Nukem Forever could potentially slip into 2021.
4. Skyrim and L.A. Noire... I totally agree with you on.
5. I have very low expectations for Star Wars: The Old Republic. I wanted it to kick ass, but everything I've seen tells me it ain't gonna happen.
6. Dragonball Z Online??? How the fuck did that get on here?
7. Torchlight was fine, but how anyone could consider a sequel among the top 5 on this list is beyond me.
8. Any finally... NO FUCKING DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION?!? Madness!

[EDIT] Ohhhh this isn't put out by Game Trailers, it's some doofus' personal list. Fuck that. Here's mine.

1. Deus Ex: Human Revolution
2. L.A. Noire
3. Guild Wars 2
4. Skyrim (reluctantly... looks awesome but the Elder Scrolls series has been a gigantic disappointment for me up to this point, aside from being beautiful environment simulators)
5. This one is tough... but I'm going to give it to Heroes of Might & Magic VI

Full Lyrics:

--Satori
Just gonna stand here
while you go dig
Im so angry
as you ride off on your pig
Just gonna build here
I'm doin' fine
It's allright because
I love the way you mine
Love the way you mine

--hojjoshmc
I can't tell you where the diamonds are
I can only tell you where they might be
But normally I have the best of luck around 16
I can't see, but I got my torchlight tonight
As long as I'm down here I know creepers could be in sight
know we should build, but it can wait, it's like I'm gonna faint
and I hate it, the more im down here, she suffocates
and right before I'm about to score a creeper locates me
he freakin hates me, but I saw em, wait
"Where you goin"
"im going back"
"No you ain't! Get back!"
I'm walking straight back, but here she's goes again
It's so mundane, but when the minin's good the minin's great
I'm on top of the world with the gems at my feet, she's praising me
But when it's bad its awful Man I'm so ashamed
She snaps, "I thought you found some, I don't see a grain"
I just looked at her, I told her I could mine some gems
I just gotta find em first and then...

--Satori
Just gonna stand here
while you go dig
Im so angry
as you ride off on your pig
Just gonna build here
I'm doin' fine
It's allright because
I love the way you mine
Love the way you mine

--hojjoshmc
You ever want some diamonds so bad
You can hardly think till you find em?
They're rare, and neither one of you ever even mined em
got that dark sinking feelin, that you always will be leaving
and she's getting really sick of building for ya
You swore you never leave her, never do nothing without her
Now you're fighting every day
Spewing items in their face that'll teach em
You yell, scream until you're red, jump spin
Kick em, but he's leaving to find diamonds in the morning just remember
It's the hunt that's the reason, it controls his mind
Friends say he's obsessed
They think you shouldn't stay
You say they don't know im
Cause today
Isn't yesterday
Today's almost over
and he's still away
sounds like the green record
playing over
But he promised you
This time he wont make you wait
You gave him another chance
I guess he respawned in the game
But he lied again
Now he gets to watch you leave out the server
Might never return again

--Satori
Just gonna stand here
while you go dig
Im so angry
as you ride off on your pig
Just gonna build here
I'm doin' fine
It's allright because
I love the way you mine
Love the way you mine

--hojjoshmc
If only he could spawn things
Big things
Then he wouldn't leave
But still he goes back
Into the same mine and
mines it clean
But you're doing just as good
Without him
But it's you he needs
And when he comes back home
You are reminded
Man he wants you back
He just messaged you
"Honey it was me"
Maybe our new world
Has a lot more dangers than it seems
So I think I'll cool off
And I'll help you build something
All know is
our house is way too small
To be out spelunking
Get inside
Pick up your chest off the ground now
Don't you see me chasing down
this stupid little brown cow?
Here's some leather pants now
Defend me while I build now
Next time you leave
I'll set the spawn in the air now
Next time?
There won't be a next time
Giving up my mines
For ya But you know it's lies
You're tired of his lame
Excuses you're glad he's back
You know his dishonest
If he ever tries to leave to mine again
You're gon' throw him in the bed
And set this house on fire

--Satori
Just gonna stand here
while you go dig
Im so angry
as you ride off on your pig
Just gonna build here
I'm doin' fine
It's allright because
I love the way you mine
Love the way you mine

I agree with dismissing magic, it was a very interesting system to screw with for quite a few levels, but once you know two magic schools the "hard" factor that was in the game initially (like forcing you, as a mage, to find high ground and develop some useful tactical spells) became a complete slaughter. Then if I summon 8 guys to defend me I might as well sit down until their timer wears out (summoning needed to be powerful, but with a much longer casting time, longer shelf life, and a "slot" system depending on what you summon).

Don't get me started on Earth magic being completely overpowered and buggy to hell and beyond.

The item system, while at first seems neat, but even by level ten you realize that every RPG I've ever played extended and amplified their item systems over time. In Two Worlds you can metallurgically upgrade it then add crystals/stones to it to enhance it. This would have allowed for an amazing system, but again they spent minimal time and effort doing it--so it sucks.

The A.I. is a mixed bag. They do well at first, but have HUGE clipping and line-of-sight issues (archers and mages are happy to stand behind a rock and shoot at you: hitting the rock. Then many enemies get stuck in planer or clipping joint areas that have small gaps and IT HAPPENS A LOT! Most engines have dealt with this issue in some form (as it's been ten plus years to learn how to stop them; programmers still screw it up; yes, I know the engine is complicated, but give me the same game on Crytek's engine and I'll be much happier)...

The trade skills are alright have a little promise with them at least starting in the right direction, but as you level up they become useless except for ones you can do on the fly (mostly, metallurgy and fusion).

The rest of what Yahtzee said is correct. The game is buggy. The multiplayer is a let down (where the hell is open roaming or campaign playthrough?) The spell system is terribly broken in some areas (I'm looking at you Fire and Earth) and weak in others: Necromancy or as I call it Necropansies--you're forced to learn another magic or you'll die, unless you really love summoning and waiting the required 5 minutes per fight for a MINOR fight... But, again, the spell card system with maybe Magickas combo system together would make spell-casting an AWESOME experience.

Anyway, I would only suggest this game if you desperately need an RPG to play. If you've yet to play Torchlight play that instead. Otherwise, get Bulletstorm as the comic value and writing (Duke Nukem type one-liners and more) make it worth buying alone.; I hope Duke can live up to this--if it has full Physics I think it will. BTW, the Unreal Engine sucks, bad... There are a lot of games I've liked on it and it looks pretty, but the physics and map abilities leaves A LOT to be desired, BUT it is also a good engine in the manner that it's easy to develop for and very flexible in what it can do (Deathspank is an excellent example; same with Dungeon Defenders on the iPad). At this point though it is by far more a console engine than a PC one.

/My two cents and review for Two Worlds II, with a small peppering of Unreal Engine talk that has nothing to do with the review...

//No grammar check just spell; Deal...

Since WoW has come out - videogame wise I've played a bunch of WoW. Some games would take me away for a while. I'm trying to remember which ones... Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3... lot's of indie ones - like Osmosis, Braid, World of Goo, Torchlight (which almost felt like a damn blizzard game) definitely Minecraft in a big way and recently Amnesia. And besides these innovative titles I've definitely played more of and been satisfied with WoW more than any other game since Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Which before WoW held the most hours played for me. Played that game every week for years - it's still amazing and I still think it's Firaxis' best.

Even more recently I've been having fun playing games I played when I was a little kid like Ultima IV, V, The Magic Candle, Syndicate, Sierra adventure games... developers obviously need to go back to the basics and innovate from there.

Wasn't Torchlight a side-scroller?

>> ^Issykitty:

Looks like fun. I hope they make a version for the ps3. (oops, this is dft, didn't realize that issy had signed in on my laptop)


Bad kitty! Um, wait...

They must have forgotten about this game already existing. As a result I'm not terribly impressed by this.

Reading the Wiki page it seems awfully much the same concept... and console only? For a Diablo game?

No. Just no.

I also really loved the world of Fallout 3. The map was so large and the exploration so much fun that the poor quality of the main story didn't bother me that much. All the side quests and exploring was more interesting and took longer than the main quest anyway.
I really love some turn based games, and I actually liked the turn based elements they put in the combat system. It gave you time to think about your strategy, take nice shots, and I even liked the slow motion parts.
>> ^mentality:
>> ^cybrbeast:

You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.

Yeah you're right. Torchlight was charming when you first step foot in it. I feel the same way about highly acclaimed games being disappointments, except with me it's Fallout 3. I've always loved the Fallout setting, and Bethesda did a wonderful job with the art and the world, but I just couldn't get past the terrible writing and the poorly implemented combat system. After reading about how the game ends, it seems like I didn't miss out on any great plot anyways =/

>> ^cybrbeast:

You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.


Yeah you're right. Torchlight was charming when you first step foot in it. I feel the same way about highly acclaimed games being disappointments, except with me it's Fallout 3. I've always loved the Fallout setting, and Bethesda did a wonderful job with the art and the world, but I just couldn't get past the terrible writing and the poorly implemented combat system. After reading about how the game ends, it seems like I didn't miss out on any great plot anyways =/

>> ^mentality:
>> ^cybrbeast:
Wow, so true. I played this game for 6 or 7 hours and it really becomes stale and boring.
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining). Currently playing Mass Effect 2 which seems of much lower quality than 1.
My only memorable games of recent time were Fallout 3, Dead Space (though I didn't complete it), Dirt 2, Prototype (also didn't complete), bit of GTA IV.

And the click LMB and kill a bajillion enemies in Torchlight with no actual plot didn't become stale and boring for you? Weird. At least Borderlands has multiplayer.


You're right that's a bit bizarre. But I didn't say I loved Torchlight, only that it was more entertaining than DAO. I really liked the setting and atmosphere in Torchlight for a while. However I also didn't finish Torchlight.
Concerning Borderlands, first-off it has bad FPS mechanics, for example when trying to shoot enemies you encounter a lot of invisible walls through which your bullets can't pass. All the moving around between and after missions wasn't much fun. Your inventory was too small. And while they tried to implement it the weapon comparison system was shite. Also the UI was as is almost always the case badly ported to PC.

>> ^cybrbeast:
I'm starting to feel more and more like Yahtzee in that most large and usually highly acclaimed games are becoming large disappointments. Dragon Age was barf to me (Torchlight was more entertaining).

I thought Yatzhee liked Dragon Age. Sure, he's going to nitpick any game, but he said he wanted to play more of it regardless.