From the Wikipedia...

Seems it was a highschool thing.

On the night of November 6, 1963, Laura Welch ran a stop sign, causing a fatal car accident that killed her friend in another car. The driver of the other car was her close friend and classmate Michael Dutton Douglas. By some accounts, he had been Welch's boyfriend at one time. Welch and her passenger, both 17, were treated for minor injuries. According to the accident report released by the city of Midland in 2000, in response to an open-records request, she was not charged in the incident. Bush's spokesman said, "It was a very tragic accident that deeply affected the families and was very painful for all involved, including the community at large." In her book Spoken from the Heart, she says that the accident caused her to lose her faith "for many, many years".

I like how the stop signs in "Russia" read 'Stop' just like they do over here.

>> ^nanrod:

No sympathy even for amount. It's not like they accidentally strayed over the speed limit or missed a stop sign or something. They made various conscious decisions to use somebody else's card just so they could have a parking advantage. Fuck em. If you know anybody with a severe mobility problem you know what an impact these fucks can impose on them.


I think the amount smacks of revenue raising but obviously, from the number of citations issued, this is a pretty common occurrence, so I can understand why the made the fine so punitive. Best way to avoid the fine is not to do something illegal which will get you fined of course... =)

You're right of course, parking in a disabled zone is a pretty shitty thing to do particularly when there are people that sometimes desperately need the easy access.

No sympathy even for amount. It's not like they accidentally strayed over the speed limit or missed a stop sign or something. They made various conscious decisions to use somebody else's card just so they could have a parking advantage. Fuck em. If you know anybody with a severe mobility problem you know what an impact these fucks can impose on them.

As a cyclist, I think we should get More tickets. Really.
Of course not for riding safely, and within the bounds of the law (which, it seems that the guy in the video was), but for breaking the laws.

As is often the case, blankfist's comment was an excellent example of what is wrong with the world. Cyclists routinely don't know, or ignore, the traffic laws. Motorists are even more ignorant, and don't know how to treat cyclists. We end up with a huge cluterf@*K, where it is unnecessarily dangerous to ride a bike.

My hope is that, were cyclists subject to more tickets (or at least friendly police reminders), they would be more aware of and more likely to follow the laws, and the perception of cyclists as legitimate users of the road increase. Police would, of course, need to lean these laws themselves.
An even more effective tactic might be to put questions about bike laws on driving license tests, or make pamphlets on cycling laws readily available at every department of motor vehicles and every bike shop.

I suspect other cyclists here may react fiercely to any suggestion that we might be part of the problem, but please think it over for a second. I stop at all stop signs, and signal, etc.. and I'm sure you do too, but every single day I see other cyclist who don't. I've seen a young man thrown 4 m after being hit by a car while darting across a crosswalk on a bike. I've seen a woman slam into a police car as she reached an intersection while riding on the wrong side of the road. On the other hand, I'm sick of cars waving me through when they have the right-of-way; it's dangerous and a waste of time. I'm sick of feeling like I'm risking my life every time I make a left turn in traffic because the cars around me don't know understand what that involves. Something has to change.

The stop sign with Harper's name on it became a meme during elections in Canada. I have seen multiple stop signs like that myself and on the net.

http://www.ronerwin.com/big/100804D9110.jpg
http://winnipegpunk.com/images/news/election/2011/stop-harper.gif
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayleyluftig/5761297596/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fanningphotography/5682641647/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleversimon/3192122981/
http://www.gigcity.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Fish-Third-Harper-stop.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/2943401474/

It might not be an Internet scale meme, but for Canada its a meme alright.

>> ^burdturgler:

... Don't see the meme either.
nochannel canada politics news

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^Crosswords:
Um yeah, you know what makes me afraid to ride a bike in my city? Its not the idea of needing a helmet, its seeing the God awful drivers around my city. They have a hard time seeing me and not suddenly pulling into my lane when I'm driving a red 3k pound vehicle. I was in a near miss the other day when the car that had been driving next to me suddenly decided my lane was the one to be in. Our cars got so close I think a gnat that just happened to be between them got squished. So yeah no way in hell I'd ride a bike on the streets of this city. Even where they have bike lanes they've decided to measure about a foot away from the curb and paint a line down the normal street. So bikers have this tiny lane to stick too, and the people in cars, who already have a hard fucking time staying in their own lane, now have less room.
So yeah, I'd wager the rest of the world's cities that aren't so concerned about the danger needing a helmet might produce, and more about the danger of morons driving 2 ton boxes of steel and glass at 50 mph or more and their effect on you if the slam into you.

Are you from the US? If yes, I can understand why you wouldn't wanna ride a bicycle. On different occasions, different US friends of mine noticed independently that there are fewer car accidents in Europe/Germany. Then I researched a bit and found out that US driving tests are far easier than the german tests are; and the US tests are very possibly kept easy to have as many drivers on the roads as possible, influenced by the car and gas-industry.


I would have put it in a slightly different manner (more insults at the driverslicense"agency" what's it called -club) but that's exactly my point.
In Germany you fail the driving test (the actual driving test, not the theory beforehands) if you do one of these things once:
- miss of red light
- entering a one way from the wrong side
- missing a stop-sign
- error of priority in traffic
- ignoring any kind of prohibition sign
- not looking in all mirrors and over shoulder as you switch lines
- no blinking lights as you turn
- blinking lights as you dont turn
- no sign of caution if children, elderly or disabled people are around
- not enough distance to the car in front of you
- and a couple of more things
The test can take up to an hour of driving.
Oh yea the whole thing (driving lessons (theory and driving itself) and tests) costs around a thousand bucks.

If I would feel more save riding a bike here, I would close my eyes, stir with my feet and juggle chainsaws while I enter the AUTOBAHN.

Oh yes and to rejoin the topic: No helmet-campaign I heard of so far. No law against riding without one. Nearly all the children in the city wear one. As they get older they apparently grow out of them.

I mean like everyone else was i'm sure, I was like, oh man watch out for cars, oh man that's a one way, oh man stop sign! But being that the guy lives there I'm pretty sure he knows it's not a busy time in his sub and the dog loved it so good for him. I do this with my dog too but my dog only weighs 5lbs so he can't pull me but he loves being able to run full speed for as long as his tiny little heart desires.

@xxovercastxx
But it's not safer for us to always act like "normal" (gee, thanks) traffic. If I acted according to the laws of my province (Ontario), I would have to take up an entire lane at all times, and not let anyone pass me. Seriously. I'd get run down like the people in this video. This law was written for motorcyclists so that cars wouldn't crowd them out, and so motorcyclists wouldn't pass between cars when stopped. Then it was blindly applied to cyclists too. So yeah, cyclists try to find their own way through the laws not designed for them, and no, we don't have to just accept it.

Also, like I said before, cyclists not following laws doesn't result in anyone getting killed, except maybe themselves, like that cyclist who blew through the stop sign in front of you. OK, he's stupid. What's that got to do with cyclists who turn right without stopping in empty residential areas? Or, more to the point, with cyclists who slow down to 10 km/h to look both ways before continuing, but technically not stopping? Nothing. So stop painting cyclists in general as scoff-laws to make your point. It's disingenuous.

Something tells me you haven't put any thought into what laws might affect cyclists, so you're not in a great position to say that there are no laws or structural changes that would make a difference to cyclists' safety. There's lots that can be done, things you, as a driver, haven't thought of because it's got nothing to do with you. It may never be as safe for cyclists as for drivers, but there's so much that can be done to make it better. All I hear from you in this thread is, "You are weak. You will always be killed. Just give up. You go out of your way to break laws, so deserve no respect from anyone. Stop trying to make your life better. Accept your fate as a lower class of road user. Get out of my way." Not that you hate cyclists, you just have contempt for us.

Peace.

@messenger

You keep saying roads are designed for automotive traffic like there's something wrong with that. Somewhere above you pointed out that cyclists pay taxes too. Your taxes also pay for sidewalks, bike trails, and forest preserves but you don't have the right to drive your car on or through any of them. If you want to ride a bike in amongst the cars, you have to accept that it's dangerous: you're harder to see, even in daylight, and your "crumple zones" are all filled with vital organs. It's a hell of a lot safer for you if you act like normal traffic.

Last week I really cared about one particular cyclist who broke a rather important traffic law. He ran a stop sign, traveling perpendicular to me, as I was entering the intersection. Fortunately, I was cruising at a pretty slow pace (maybe 25mph tops) so it wasn't a tough stop, but I did have to lock 'em up to not run the idiot over.

I don't really give a shit if cyclists ride on the shoulder (when there is one) or even the sidewalk (provided there's room amongst the pedestrians). Sure, these are technically illegal but they are good examples of, as you called it, victimless traffic laws.

One of the big problems with having bikes sharing road space with cars is you can easily fit 2-3 bikes in a car's blind spot. This is one of the big reasons bikes get sandwiched during lane changes. This is also one problem that's really not helped by typical urban bike lanes.

"This idea that car drivers don't break laws is utter fiction", and also something that I never claimed. Not sure why you're debunking the phantom argument.

I don't think any laws are going to make it safe for cyclists to be on the roads, even in designated bike lanes. No matter how perfect the system is and even if everyone adheres to it, bikes are difficult to see and even a "minor" collision with a bike is a major accident for the rider. In less urban areas, bike lanes are sometimes built some 20+ feet off the side of the road. This works well, when possible, because short of a major accident that launches a car off the road and onto the bike lane, the two never really share the same space.

Within a dense city, I don't know what the answer is. Maybe elevated bike lanes could work, sort of like how they run subway tracks in certain places.

Ok, I just paused writing for a second to do a search for "elevated bike lanes" and found some interesting concepts:

http://www.thepurehands.org/cycleways/
http://kolelinia.com/kolelinia/

Somewhere I saw someone mention that a lot of older cities also have abandoned subway tunnels that could be repurposed. I understand that underground isn't the nicest place for a bike ride on a warm spring day, but it's a pretty sweet idea if you're just looking to commute. Even if you just reused sections of tunnel in spots where there was no room overhead, it's valuable to keep in mind.

I really think separating the bikes from the cars is the way to go. Like I said before, even in the best circumstances there will be accidents and bike vs car is never really going to turn out well for the biker.

@xxovercastxx
It certainly happens that traffic jams and car accidents cause major inconvenience, but that's not the same as going out with the intent of clogging the roads. It's no accident that the event was originally named the "Commute Clot".
I don't think CMers much like or identify with the old name, which I think was just some arguably witty consonance. I wouldn't join a ride with that name because I don't necessarily want to disturb people. The new name comes from a line in a documentary film, where bicycle traffic in Beijing was stopped indefinitely at certain intersections, never allowed to proceed until "a critical mass of (waiting) cyclists" formed, spilled out in front of the cars, blocking their way, and finally allowed the cyclists to move, which they all did together, in the protection of numbers. Today's CM rides are the planning of that "critical mass of cyclists" so that once a month, at most, we can experience the freedom to ride our own roads.

I actually do love riding my bike, or at least I did before a neck injury made it agonizing to do so.
Really, really sorry to hear this.

I have no problem sharing the road with anyone who is willing. Breaking traffic laws most certainly is, or at least was when this thing got started.
Well, it's not the point anymore. Traffic laws aren't the problem. In Toronto (my city) for this reason, we started following traffic lights, but this caused its own problems with breaking up the ride, and creating dangerous situations with a few cyclists going through anyway, and confusing the cross traffic, so we mostly now just go on through. It's safe.

And if all you want to do is have a bunch of cyclists go for a ride together, obeying stop signs, red lights, right-of-way, etc, that's awesome and no, you don't need permission or special paperwork or anything like that.
When that's all I want, I stay off the roads, and use bicycle paths and nature trails. I actually don't much like riding with other people, to be honest.

I most certainly do not acknowledge this as a protest. Protests are against something: a war, discrimination, etc. What is CM protesting; traffic laws? Equal access to the road? No, this is just a troll festival. However, if that's what your local city does then you have strayed from the intent of CM, that being to block off roads with massive quantities of traffic-law-ignoring cyclists so as to disrupt anyone else's commute. If that's the goal, then that's what parade paperwork is for. Just don't expect to be allowed to fuck up the city every month. You keep referring to it as a protest, so why don't you tell me what you're protesting?
As there is no leader, there are maybe as many ideas about what CM is as there are cyclists in the ride. Most, however, will agree with what you said, that we're protesting for equal access to the roads, as well as improved cycling infrastructure, increased cycling budget, and so on. And if that defies what you perceive as the original intent of CM, that's none of my business. I am not against anybody. I just want to enjoy my slice of the pie as comfortably and unmindfully (is that a word? you know what I mean) as car drivers get to do every day.

@messenger

Also, you could as easily describe all car drivers as "assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else" every day during rush hour, but I'm guessing you're a car driver, so you empathise with them, but not with cyclists.

It certainly happens that traffic jams and car accidents cause major inconvenience, but that's not the same as going out with the intent of clogging the roads. It's no accident that the event was originally named the "Commute Clot". I actually do love riding my bike, or at least I did before a neck injury made it agonizing to do so. I have no problem sharing the road with anyone who is willing.

Breaking laws "at every opportunity" is not the point of CM. You acknowledge it's a protest, of sorts, so you shouldn't be surprised that we go through stop signs.

Breaking traffic laws most certainly is, or at least was when this thing got started. I most certainly do not acknowledge this as a protest. Protests are against something: a war, discrimination, etc. What is CM protesting; traffic laws? Equal access to the road? No, this is just a troll festival.

I don't like that idea because it requires declaring an official leader and an official "parade route", both of which miss the point of not needing to ask permission to use our own roads, and the point of it being a protest, not a parade.

And if all you want to do is have a bunch of cyclists go for a ride together, obeying stop signs, red lights, right-of-way, etc, that's awesome and no, you don't need permission or special paperwork or anything like that. However, if that's what your local city does then you have strayed from the intent of CM, that being to block off roads with massive quantities of traffic-law-ignoring cyclists so as to disrupt anyone else's commute. If that's the goal, then that's what parade paperwork is for. Just don't expect to be allowed to fuck up the city every month.

You keep referring to it as a protest, so why don't you tell me what you're protesting?

But these Critical Mass pricks certainly are a self-righteous bunch.
In large part, fair, I suppose.

This is not a protest; this is assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else.
Not so. Protests are not designed to be convenient. They're designed to get attention. Some disrupt people's lives a lot. CM only does a little. Also, you could as easily describe all car drivers as "assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else" every day during rush hour, but I'm guessing you're a car driver, so you empathise with them, but not with cyclists.

...bikes have to obey traffic laws, just like cars and buses. Critical Mass does not obey traffic laws; that's the whole point of the event...
Well, no. Breaking laws "at every opportunity" is not the point of CM. You acknowledge it's a protest, of sorts, so you shouldn't be surprised that we go through stop signs. Big deal. As for property damage, that's not part of CM. Not sure what you've been reading. Beyond traffic laws, we generally don't do anything wrong, and IMO, people who do should be arrested.

so they don't have to do the proper paperwork for an event
Some cities do file the paperwork every month. Don't know which ones. Not mine. I don't like that idea because it requires declaring an official leader and an official "parade route", both of which miss the point of not needing to ask permission to use our own roads, and the point of it being a protest, not a parade.

they should all be ticketed and the few who take it even further, smashing car windows and such, should be arrested too. There's no reason they should be above the law, no matter how much they believe they are.
Fair. Any cyclists who break laws beyond traffic laws are stepping outside the protest, and are fair to arrest. And we sometimes are arrested, but usually just for riding our bikes, you know, like peaceful protesters often get arrested. But mostly, the police respect us as harmless protesters and let us go on our way, sometimes even helping to block intersections for us.

Make CM a cyclists' parade... it'll do wonders for your PR.
So, the exact same protest, but with some city bureaucrat's stamp on a piece of paper, and suddenly now it's OK with you? I mean, is it OK, or isn't it? If it's OK, then why do you care if we have a permit? If it's not OK with you, again, what difference would it make if we had a permit?>> ^xxovercastxx:

<the neat-o stuff quoted above>

@Darkhand is completely insane. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think it's ok to run these people down with a car. I hope the driver is found and spends a shitload of time in prison.

But these Critical Mass pricks certainly are a self-righteous bunch. This is not a protest; this is assholes coming together to inconvenience everyone else. @messenger makes the argument that bikes "are traffic" just like cars and buses. This is true, which is why bikes have to obey traffic laws, just like cars and buses. Critical Mass does not obey traffic laws; that's the whole point of the event (they prefer "spontaneous celebration" so they don't have to do the proper paperwork for an event).

If I, in my car, were to behave like the CM cyclists; running red lights and stop signs, destroying others' property, violating laws at every opportunity; I would be arrested within 15 minutes and nobody would feel the least bit sorry for me, yet everyone loses their shit if one of these cyclists is ticketed or arrested.

They should all be ticketed and the few who take it even further, smashing car windows and such, should be arrested too. There's no reason they should be above the law, no matter how much they believe they are. If they want to shut down city streets, they should do the paperwork like anyone else. Make CM a cyclists' parade... it'll do wonders for your PR.

Geez, I thought we had poor city planning on the west coast in the United States. This is pretty bad.

Why create a tiny roundabout without massive YIELD notifications in the middle of a four lane intersection -- and with a crosswalk? It's a recipe for disaster. Just put up some stop signs/lights and turn it back into a normal intersection.

The only roundabouts that I know of that work (and even these have some problems) are larger, multi-laned roundabouts with a solid structure/island in the middle to prevent driving straight through it and other similar moving violations due to ignorance/impatience.

We have a decent number of larger roundabouts in California, mostly in south Orange County (as well as the Orange circle, which is more inland) and there's a couple in Long Beach. I've NEVER seen these types of problems. Reminds me of what happens when street lights go out due to a power outage.