If you mean when they aren't racing, in F1 they completely dis-assemble the car bolt by bolt and check every piece for micro cracks and wear, rebuild the engine and transaxle, replace any worn part, and basically rebuild the car from scratch...almost every time. They also do experimentation with new parts and designs to see if they are worth integrating into the car. With the stresses these parts see in F1 racing, they have to be insanely careful to not put a cracked or poorly made part on, it could easily kill someone if anything fails.
Most of what wins races happens OFF the race course. I was an off road/desert racer, and it was even truer there. Just finishing in off road racing is a victory, and it's mostly due to proper preparation of the car. Being a lone wolf 'team' (meaning I had no pit crew, it was all on me and whatever 'friend' I could rope into helping at the race) it was pretty self gratifying when I was able to drive into the pits at the end of a race (as opposed to being towed or dragged in).

Not racing, because... Well, they're not racing. You'll get into serious shit if you try to race there during touristenfahrten. And it's not off-road because you're quite clearly on the road, a public one-way toll road none the less. I'll easily give you "reckless operation" though. =)

LOL---how the heck would wrecking a car under those circumstances not fall under either the "reckless operation", "racing", or "off-road" exemptions???
Of course, not a German insurance agent either...

Mostly because most people are lazy honestly lol Which is ironic when you think about it. But generally speaking, most well marked trails will warn you of sudden changes like this. Part of the IMBA trail building guide is designing courses so they flow the way the rider would expect.

Honestly, in this case it does seem like a bout of stupidity mixed in with failure to properly mark the course. It would have been product to ask a LBS about the trail before riding it, as to avoid mistakes like this, or a sudden trail condition like a washout or avalanche.

In my own personal opinion: they were riding too fast for that section. It's like when a New Yorker comes down to Florida . . . they just fly on the interstates because they can. A smart rider knows when to speed up, and more importantly, when to slow down.

With drops and banks like these, they're not ultra expert by any means, but it certainly would be good as you said to know the map.

As for riders ride close, well, it varies. On road, it's drafting. Off road, you're not going to get the same wind resistance so it mostly just becomes a skill challenge. Many riders will ride ultra close like that so they can learn each others rhythms and ride better together. So in the event they do race, they're prepared.

When I lead rides, I always know who's going to up on my wheel and who's going to lag back. The ones who lag are the ones taking lessons and notes, and the ones right on my wheel are challenging themselves to keep up. I'm a very aggressive rider and frankly, I do some seriously stupid stuff. The ones on my wheel, either make it or don't. And there's been plenty of don'ts. The ones lagging behind are the safer ones. But that's not always the case in a fast changing course. If you want to know what the trail ahead is doing, you follow a leader who knows the course. They can tell you what's about to come up, or if they do something wrong they can warn you.

But you are correct in thinking that riding close like that can really be risky if the person in front falls. It's a give/take thing. Determine the amount of risk that's acceptable and prepare for that.

I'm not sure what the technical term for it is. Independent wheel drivetrain something or another. I've only ever seen or heard of it on off-roading vehicles but the concept is that the system senses when a wheel is no longer in contact with a surface and will then stop powering that particular wheel and instead divert the power to the ones still in contact with the ground. It's a pretty cool idea but I never would have guessed to see it on a Hyundai sedan. I'm fairly certain that's not a stock option on that model...

My personal experience,

Long drives (1,000km+), 6 and 6 in clear visibility (daylight, nothing along roadside) situations, 5 and 8 for all other situations, massive difference (reduction) in fatigue.

Short / suburban / city / off-road, 3 and 8 for responsiveness.

Tried many styles, what works for you may not work for others and what works for 1 car may not work for another. Take into account comfort, arm length, strength requirements (steering wheel sensitivity / responsiveness)

She's thinking Jeeps are capable of operating off-road, so why not take advantage of it.

>> ^Fransky:
And incidentally, the Grand Cherokee is an off-road truck.
True, but that's not why most people buy them.

Anyone from moose country knows that you NEVER swerve for an animal, anyway. You pile on the brakes and take the impact. Swerving like that either puts you into oncoming traffic, or the soft shoulder, and compounds the problem.

And incidentally, the Grand Cherokee is an off-road truck. The Touareg and its ilk are/were designed as upsized, slightly more capable cars. The Jeep will fare worse on the tarmac because of its origins. The test isn't really apples to apples.

So let's say you got this giant party keg at your party of 150 of your friends. Some idiot runs up and knocks it over. You'd be pissed.

Now imagine the party-keg is a torch and the party is like a lot larger. They also just furiously debated about world politics, health and sportsmanship. THEY ALSO DID IT FOR A LONG TIME.

You might just as well walk over to mekka and shit on the prophet's stone. Being pushed off a road by a bunch of jogging, silly looking bodyguards seems pretty civilized to me.

If you want a world without symbols... dude, that's a mighty off-road plan.

>> ^Yogi:

If you wanna go offroad you get the defender, the BMW 5 is just sad.


Most people who own cayennes wouldn't know off road it bit them in the ass. What they want is a big, powerful, luxury family car. I picked a 5 series as an example, but you could have a merc or whatever else fits in that category.

Either way, the point is that cayenne is an expensive "worst of all worlds" car.
A 5 series is a better sedan, almost anything is a better offroader (I'd actually go for a Hilux over a defender) and there are plenty of cheap nippy roadsters that will handle infinitely better.

>> ^sadicious:

>> ^westy:
couple of issues with this
1) FUCKING CALL THE POLICE OR SUMONE FIRST BEFORE FILMING ( might have done this anyway )
2) IF FILMING KEEP THE ACTION IN FRAME
3) THE OTHER CAR COULD VEER RIGHT OR LEFT DONT DRIVE INLINE WITH IT YOU RETARDS
also it dosent matter that the people find it funny, finding something funny does not mean that you wont be pragmatic, productive or have empathy with people involved and consequences.

1. What if they don't have a cell phone with them?
2. You didn't pay him to keep it in frame. Infact, you didn't pay him at all!
3. How else do they attempt to keep the action in frame?
3b. Humor is often connected with hardship. They came to the conclusion that the driver was doing it intentionally. One of them mentioned that they wanted to see what would happen at a bridge. This isn't so they could see a bloody mess, but so they could see some more action with the drivers off-road skills. I doubt anyone in the car filming wanted to see this person kill or be killed. If only they read the newspaper from tomorrow, they may of acted better.


you didn't comprehend what I wrote granted I write like a retard but other people understood what I put

1) thats obvouse why would you make that piont bvously that logic is self containd in what i said , its also likely they r filming it on a phone in the first place as that's the most likely video camara people would have to hand in this situation ( WHAT IF THEY WERE ALL DEFF !!!! WHAT IF THEY HAD NO BATTERIES , WHAT IF THEY ALL HAD ERECTIONS THAT WAS BLOCKING THERE HANDS FROM POCKETS )

2) why does it matter if I paid them if you are going to go to the effort to film something should at least try and do a good job of it evan if its for themselfs

3) well what you do is you work out that you are moving around allot so you keep the shot zoomed out you then angle yourself as such so that the subject is kept in frame , the driver would also stay behind the car so that if it did veer off he would have time to react and this would allso let the guy filming film clearly people watch tv they should know these things from police chases film sequences and by generally thinking.


3b) you didn't understand what I said

>> ^westy:

couple of issues with this
1) FUCKING CALL THE POLICE OR SUMONE FIRST BEFORE FILMING ( might have done this anyway )
2) IF FILMING KEEP THE ACTION IN FRAME
3) THE OTHER CAR COULD VEER RIGHT OR LEFT DONT DRIVE INLINE WITH IT YOU RETARDS
also it dosent matter that the people find it funny, finding something funny does not mean that you wont be pragmatic, productive or have empathy with people involved and consequences.


1. What if they don't have a cell phone with them?
2. You didn't pay him to keep it in frame. Infact, you didn't pay him at all!
3. How else do they attempt to keep the action in frame?
3b. Humor is often connected with hardship. They came to the conclusion that the driver was doing it intentionally. One of them mentioned that they wanted to see what would happen at a bridge. This isn't so they could see a bloody mess, but so they could see some more action with the drivers off-road skills. I doubt anyone in the car filming wanted to see this person kill or be killed. If only they read the newspaper from tomorrow, they may of acted better.

the KIA Insanity off road sedan

>> ^Yogi:

How do you not plan how much gas you're going to need? I refuse to watch this movie that will possibly contain the answer...someone must tell me the answer and THEN I'll watch the movie.

"It seems some MMA websites have reported on the story, posting up that I might die out in the desert, or that it might be my greatest opponent yet, etc. Come on, guys. It's really common down in Southern California to go out to the off-road recreation areas in the desert about an hour away from LA and San Diego.

So my plan is to go out to the desert, do some camping, ride the motorcycle, and shoot some guns. Sounds like a lot of fun to me. A lot of people do it. This isn't a version of 'Into the Wild.'" -Evan Tanner

"I plan on going so deep into the desert, that any failure of my equipment, could cost me my life. I've been doing a great deal of research and study. I want to know all I can about where I'm going, and I want to make sure I have the best equipment."