>> ^VoodooV:

>> ^lantern53:
>> ^VoodooV:
Tasers: Please stop confusing them with phasers We don't live in Star Trek times yet.
less lethal does not equate to non lethal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly sympathetic for the cop killer, nor would I shed a tear if they executed him. But still, 5-6 on 1 and still needing a taser is fucked up. And yeah, you know damned well they're going to get some free hits on him while no non-cops are looking.
Why don't you take your own bet Lantern? You're so...liberal with betting other people...bet yourself. If you've got such a hard-on for "justice," why arent you signing up? or are you just too special?

Sign up? I've been a police officer since 1983 and while I have never tased, shot, or hit anyone, I know a bit more about this type of situation than you do.

Oh no! @lantern53 threw down the Internet Pissing Match Gauntlet, whatever shall I do? Oh wait, it's another logical fallacy...I call them out for the bs that they are.
For all we know, you're a fat desk clerk at the station with delusions of grandeur. And even if you did get put in a situation where you did see action, there is no indication that you wouldn't be another cop that uses excessive force where it's not needed.
Like I said, I've got absolutely zero problem with taking the suspect down hard and fast but a taser is not a "do what I say" or a "you looked at me funny" button. You've got close to a half dozen people covering a restrained guy in a split second. Taser was unjustified. period. It's a joke that these guys can't subdue him. What the fuck did the police do before tasers? somehow they were able to subdue people without using a device that can kill.

Go read through his comment history. You'll see why I've had him on ignore for months. If he is a cop, he is exactly the kind of douchebag that represents all that is wrong with the police nowadays. This tired "you-don't-understand-how-hard-our-job-is" defense of any bullshit cop behavior only plays well with those who are unquestioning/fearful of authority, extremely gullible, or can't be bothered with critical thinking. As far as knowing "a bit more about this type of situation", it's the kind of dismissive condescension that has so infected police forces everywhere that it has become common caricature. It ignores the fact that the general public, the people police are supposed to serve, have eyes and ears of their own.

>> ^lantern53:

>> ^VoodooV:
Tasers: Please stop confusing them with phasers We don't live in Star Trek times yet.
less lethal does not equate to non lethal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly sympathetic for the cop killer, nor would I shed a tear if they executed him. But still, 5-6 on 1 and still needing a taser is fucked up. And yeah, you know damned well they're going to get some free hits on him while no non-cops are looking.
Why don't you take your own bet Lantern? You're so...liberal with betting other people...bet yourself. If you've got such a hard-on for "justice," why arent you signing up? or are you just too special?

Sign up? I've been a police officer since 1983 and while I have never tased, shot, or hit anyone, I know a bit more about this type of situation than you do.


Oh no! @lantern53 threw down the Internet Pissing Match Gauntlet, whatever shall I do? Oh wait, it's another logical fallacy...I call them out for the bs that they are.

For all we know, you're a fat desk clerk at the station with delusions of grandeur. And even if you did get put in a situation where you did see action, there is no indication that you wouldn't be another cop that uses excessive force where it's not needed.

Like I said, I've got absolutely zero problem with taking the suspect down hard and fast but a taser is not a "do what I say" or a "you looked at me funny" button. You've got close to a half dozen people covering a restrained guy in a split second. Taser was unjustified. period. It's a joke that these guys can't subdue him. What the fuck did the police do before tasers? somehow they were able to subdue people without using a device that can kill.

>> ^VoodooV:

Tasers: Please stop confusing them with phasers We don't live in Star Trek times yet.
less lethal does not equate to non lethal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly sympathetic for the cop killer, nor would I shed a tear if they executed him. But still, 5-6 on 1 and still needing a taser is fucked up. And yeah, you know damned well they're going to get some free hits on him while no non-cops are looking.
Why don't you take your own bet Lantern? You're so...liberal with betting other people...bet yourself. If you've got such a hard-on for "justice," why arent you signing up? or are you just too special?


Sign up? I've been a police officer since 1983 and while I have never tased, shot, or hit anyone, I know a bit more about this type of situation than you do.

Tasers: Please stop confusing them with phasers We don't live in Star Trek times yet.

less lethal does not equate to non lethal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly sympathetic for the cop killer, nor would I shed a tear if they executed him. But still, 5-6 on 1 and still needing a taser is fucked up. And yeah, you know damned well they're going to get some free hits on him while no non-cops are looking.

Why don't you take your own bet Lantern? You're so...liberal with betting other people...bet yourself. If you've got such a hard-on for "justice," why arent you signing up? or are you just too special?

>> ^joedirt:

Am I the only one who saw that as clearly bad acting? Like someone play acting drunk and doing a poor job?
I invite you to look at the BAC tables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content
At over 0.30 this dude should have been unconscious or having trouble standing, and his motor skills seemed fine. Now, some hardcore alcoholics are able to have higher BAC with less lethal effects from decades of drinking, but I'm pretty sure this was just a gimmick to portray Ron Paul supporters as drunks.
Watch him walk at the end, and his ability to lean back with arms cuffed behind his back. There is no way he was 0.3 BAC.


Alcoholics can often exceed what would be considered normal standards, often by large amounts.

>> ^joedirt:

Am I the only one who saw that as clearly bad acting? Like someone play acting drunk and doing a poor job?
I invite you to look at the BAC tables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content
At over 0.30 this dude should have been unconscious or having trouble standing, and his motor skills seemed fine. Now, some hardcore alcoholics are able to have higher BAC with less lethal effects from decades of drinking, but I'm pretty sure this was just a gimmick to portray Ron Paul supporters as drunks.
Watch him walk at the end, and his ability to lean back with arms cuffed behind his back. There is no way he was 0.3 BAC.


Good call, I thought something seemed a bit off with his behavior in general for a drunk. His use of sarcasm directly towards the camera just before he gets in the car is a pretty clear sign of lucidity.

Agree, he's acting.

>> ^joedirt:

Am I the only one who saw that as clearly bad acting? Like someone play acting drunk and doing a poor job?
I invite you to look at the BAC tables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content
At over 0.30 this dude should have been unconscious or having trouble standing, and his motor skills seemed fine. Now, some hardcore alcoholics are able to have higher BAC with less lethal effects from decades of drinking, but I'm pretty sure this was just a gimmick to portray Ron Paul supporters as drunks.
Watch him walk at the end, and his ability to lean back with arms cuffed behind his back. There is no way he was 0.3 BAC.

Am I the only one who saw that as clearly bad acting? Like someone play acting drunk and doing a poor job?

I invite you to look at the BAC tables:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

At over 0.30 this dude should have been unconscious or having trouble standing, and his motor skills seemed fine. Now, some hardcore alcoholics are able to have higher BAC with less lethal effects from decades of drinking, but I'm pretty sure this was just a gimmick to portray Ron Paul supporters as drunks.

Watch him walk at the end, and his ability to lean back with arms cuffed behind his back. There is no way he was 0.3 BAC.

I've watched enough cops to know that less lethal does not work on all drugged out suspects. They can take a taser all day long and bean bags do nothing. Their instinct is to fight instead of flight, at all costs.

As soon as the taser stops, the pain is 100% gone. The only residual effect is you feel like you had a brisk workout.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^TheSofaKing:
I've been tasered and I got it for 5 seconds. It is the worst pain I have ever felt by miles. I've explained the feeling as follows: remember the WORST time you hit your funny bone... multiply by 1 million and put it over your entire body.

And after the taser? Is it the less-lethal behemoth everyone makes it out to be? Did it leave you disabled? Psychological effects? Me not being tasered, I have no clue. I just go by what the masses say. I would love to write a book on the subject...

>> ^TheSofaKing:
I've been tasered and I got it for 5 seconds. It is the worst pain I have ever felt by miles. I've explained the feeling as follows: remember the WORST time you hit your funny bone... multiply by 1 million and put it over your entire body.


And after the taser? Is it the less-lethal behemoth everyone makes it out to be? Did it leave you disabled? Psychological effects? Me not being tasered, I have no clue. I just go by what the masses say. I would love to write a book on the subject...

@joedirt. But what you do have to admit is this. All sides lie and spread propaganda that is completely distorted. Israel does not have a blockade on shifty tactics and you simply choose the side you want based on the information you are fed. Both sides are simply vying for power and deserve the pain they inflict upon one another.

Russia shows the flotilla bringing flowers and good hope... and only weapons of kindness. Israel shows them bringing knives and pipes... Which side to believe? Hrm. Neither for me!

Oh, and the definition of something and its practical use are two different things... CS is hardly "less lethal" (Since I, and millions of sevice men and women, have been sprayed with CS multiple times, and heck, I am allergic to it, the proof is pretty well known. Neither is pepper spray or pepper balls.) You have to be a pussy to argue that those weapons, when used in the open, are worse than a spray of bullets...

*Note, I did not argue who was right or wrong in this case so don't bring me into this debate.

First of all, I never said "international waters" because the Mediterranean is not.

Secondly if there is "paint ball" guns, then you are an idiot if you think the military carries paint ball guns used by children. These are military weapons used often in Iraq and other places because the "paint balls" contain chemical weapons. These are know as less lethal crowd control weapons.

These marines illegal boarded a vessel with many many fully automatic assault weapons and shot people. Anyone trying to point to a paint ball gun like it justifies piracy and murder is really pathetic and sadly trying to justify murder by these Israelis.

What if these people were afraid and were turning back? How would you know considering they were miles from the shoreline. The truth is that Israel should have waited until this ship was in THEIR waters and violating some law or justifiable reason to board a boat and kill people.

But they were cowards and wanted to do this at night instead of waiting until they were 22 or 11 miles or whatever and it was daylight and maybe even the media could see this.

Sure, these "activists" probably should have expected to be boarded. In fact, they knew about this boarding. For some reason some people on the boats tried to defend themselves. Does that justify shooting them?

How do you know the marines weren't going to murder everyone on the ship and steal the boat? How would anyone even think that wasn't a possibility? I mean what rational reasonable navy of a modern country can't just come alongside a ship during the daylight hours and say "turn back". They have a naval blockade.. Why not use it?

>> ^dgandhi:
>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.
I call bullshit.
Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.


Remember Kent State? While the "rules of engagement" may not have called for lethal force, it seems rather obvious that the lack of anything between billy clubs and guns directly contributed to the student deaths.

>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.

I call bullshit.

Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.