Only when more people wake up to the fact that these are murderous people will the tide be turned.

Until then more random acts of mass destruction and murder will take place and Government leaders will insist that its only a few bad apples in the Islamic faith are doing this .

There may be a few bad apples but the rest of Muslims are cheering them on.

It going to be one messed up 21st Century. Hope you children will make it through.


Donald Trump has a good point about not letting Muslims in to the USA.

Every country needs to kick them out.

Kinda sums up my thoughts on Harris. You can watch about 10-15 of his video's and you'll think he's fairly smart and has some good ideas. Eventually though, you'll realise he's always using the same arguments, and he tends to stereotype pretty heavily, specifically against those of the Islamic faith.

This is certainly hate speech. I hate muslims; not islam, muslims.

Muslims, like jews, christians and neo-nazis, are by definition not decent people. It's islam that we're concerned with in particular, and islam is substantially the worst of those ideologies.

It's easy, isn't it, lazily to accuse your opponents of ignorance - but I'm obliged to wonder how much you actually know about islam, its texts and its history.

It is a historical and scriptural fact that mohammed was a rapist and promoter of rape among his followers, as well as being a slaver and warlord and murderer of many thousands of people. All muslims know this, and all have chosen to endorse his crimes and follow his teachings and are, as a fundamental tenet of the islamic faith, expected to emulate his behaviour.

Can you dispute even a single word of what I've just asserted? All muslims are guilty of mass-rape. All muslims are guilty of mass-murder.

It's sad to see those who flatter themselves that they're progressives descend into rape-apology and collaboration with genocidal fascism.

As moderate as American Christians have been?>> ^A10anis:

So, how would these two guys characterize the islamic faith? Would they say islam is benign and wants to co-exist peacefully with the west, allowing freedom from religious intrusion, equality for woman, gays, and those of other faiths? The evidence shows the opposite. The very word islam means submission, it is not just a faith, it is a theocracy and dictates every facet of daily life. Dooley's first comment about Hiroshima was extreme, and the FBI comment about Obama being influenced by islamic extremists was ridiculous. But the quran -despite people claiming it is taken "out of context"- is very clear on the propagation of islam. The quran must be followed by every muslim and In 50 years- it has been predicted- muslims in europe will have the balance of voting power. If that happens the commentators, who are so derisory today, will be able to see just how "moderate" islam will be.

>> ^messenger:

You're putting words in the commentators' mouths by assuming the answer to your opening question. These two would not characterise Islam moderate, and they suggested nothing of the kind. That's equivalent to me just assuming that you support the actions of Anders Brevik because you're afraid of a European takeover of Islam. Fair?
And FWIW, everything you said about Islam and the Quran also holds true for Christianity and the Bible (except of course for the etymology). For example, the Bible is very clear on the mandate to spread Christianity -- where do you think Islam got the idea? These commentators are derisory of the material taught in this course, derisory of the same things you just said were "extreme" and "ridiculous", so I'm not sure what point you're making except that you're a wee bit xenophobic.>> ^A10anis:
So, how would these two guys characterize the islamic faith? Would they say islam is benign and wants to co-exist peacefully with the west, allowing freedom from religious intrusion, equality for woman, gays, and those of other faiths? The evidence shows the opposite. The very word islam means submission, it is not just a faith, it is a theocracy and dictates every facet of daily life. Dooley's first comment about Hiroshima was extreme, and the FBI comment about Obama being influenced by islamic extremists was ridiculous. But the quran -despite people claiming it is taken "out of context"- is very clear on the propagation of islam. The quran must be followed by every muslim and In 50 years- it has been predicted- muslims in europe will have the balance of voting power. If that happens the commentators, who are so derisory today, will be able to see just how "moderate" islam will be.


I suggest you read my comment again, slowly. Far from putting words in their mouths, I pose the legitimate question; "how would they characterize islam?" Please observe the question mark which, funnily enough, denotes a question NOT a statement. However, they certainly DID suggest what their answer would be. My inference is based upon their demeanor of derision and incredulity at anything said by Dooley, and the fact that they openly condemn him as a war monger. The two comments that I said were "extreme" and "ridiculous," were just that. The other comments made by Dooley were legitimate. Your Brevik comment is absurd and, as such, is not worth commenting on. As for you comparing islam with christianity? What are you talking about? I am an atheist and deride ALL myths. However, in defence of Christianity; When was the last Christian suicide bomber? When was the last time Christians flew planes into buildings? When was the last time a Christian stoned a woman to death or carried out an "honour" killing, or hung gays from a crane? When was the last time a christian beheaded a non-believer, etc, etc? Comparing the two is ignorant and intellectual laziness. If by xenophobic you mean I am afraid of those who wish to radically change our lives and drag us back to the bronze age, then yes, I am very afraid. Islam is an insidious threat, one we ignore at our peril. Finally, If you wish clarification on any other points that you don't understand, I will happily explain them.

You're putting words in the commentators' mouths by assuming the answer to your opening question. These two would not characterise Islam moderate, and they suggested nothing of the kind. That's equivalent to me just assuming that you support the actions of Anders Brevik because you're afraid of a European takeover of Islam. Fair?

And FWIW, everything you said about Islam and the Quran also holds true for Christianity and the Bible (except of course for the etymology). For example, the Bible is very clear on the mandate to spread Christianity -- where do you think Islam got the idea? These commentators are derisory of the material taught in this course, derisory of the same things you just said were "extreme" and "ridiculous", so I'm not sure what point you're making except that you're a wee bit xenophobic.>> ^A10anis:

So, how would these two guys characterize the islamic faith? Would they say islam is benign and wants to co-exist peacefully with the west, allowing freedom from religious intrusion, equality for woman, gays, and those of other faiths? The evidence shows the opposite. The very word islam means submission, it is not just a faith, it is a theocracy and dictates every facet of daily life. Dooley's first comment about Hiroshima was extreme, and the FBI comment about Obama being influenced by islamic extremists was ridiculous. But the quran -despite people claiming it is taken "out of context"- is very clear on the propagation of islam. The quran must be followed by every muslim and In 50 years- it has been predicted- muslims in europe will have the balance of voting power. If that happens the commentators, who are so derisory today, will be able to see just how "moderate" islam will be.

So, how would these two guys characterize the islamic faith? Would they say islam is benign and wants to co-exist peacefully with the west, allowing freedom from religious intrusion, equality for woman, gays, and those of other faiths? The evidence shows the opposite. The very word islam means submission, it is not just a faith, it is a theocracy and dictates every facet of daily life. Dooley's first comment about Hiroshima was extreme, and the FBI comment about Obama being influenced by islamic extremists was ridiculous. But the quran -despite people claiming it is taken "out of context"- is very clear on the propagation of islam. The quran must be followed by every muslim and In 50 years- it has been predicted- muslims in europe will have the balance of voting power. If that happens the commentators, who are so derisory today, will be able to see just how "moderate" islam will be.

Congratulations!

This comment has pushed you into the Always Ignore This Sifter category.

It is a small but select group.

Self select.


>> ^lantern53:

Even Obama mentioned his 'Islamic faith' which I am sure most will not remember.
Of course, Obama was raised a muslim. His conversion came later, perhaps at Jeremiah's anti-semitic, racist playground.

Even Obama mentioned his 'Islamic faith' which I am sure most will not remember.

Of course, Obama was raised a muslim. His conversion came later, perhaps at Jeremiah's anti-semitic, racist playground.

Thanks.

>> ^bleedmegood:

I, personally, am not a Christian. I believe there is something greater than us...an order underlying
the chaos (I call it God). I just gained a great deal of respect for you for voicing your faith on vs, because you are in the minority. Nothing irritates me more than the majority who will rally for open-mined tolerance towards the islamic faith in one breath and mock christianity in the next. I just wanted you to know that I have nothing but respect for those who declare their faith even in the face of ridicule.
In reply to this comment by ant:
I am a Christian and a techie. They work fine together for me. Even at Christian university I went to (Azusa Pacific University), we have techies, science, etc. as well.

>> ^Samaelsmith:

>> ^Pprt:
Strange that everyone is ignoring the first video I referenced, as if what they were chanting has no bearing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk
They are chanting a traditional song about Muhamad's massacre on Khaibar, the Jewish settlement that he raided in 628~9. Ten thousand Jews were killed and Muhamad ordered the leader be tortured before he appropriated the widow. As a matter of course, he helped himself to the coffers.
Since Wikepedia is liked by the liberal persuasion, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khaybar
You can contest the translation if you wish, but please pay attention to a word the lady uses: Shahada.
Listen for the same words in these clips http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html

I won't question the translation but I would like a clarification of what you think shahada means. All I can find is that it is a religious declaration saying basically "There is no god but God, and Mohammed is his messenger."


Correct. The Shahada is a declaration of Islamic faith. If you repeat it three times you're considered a Muslim.

Its meaning has been twisted to represent being the act of "martyrdom" (read suicide bombing) by hardline Islamists. I used the quotes because a martyr is someone who would lay down his/her life for a cause. A martyr doesn't intend to take someone else's life.

Someone who has done the Shahada in the latter sense is called a Shahid, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid

Good on you for looking into it, Samaelsmith!

Yes these blogs are sweet indeed, glad to see you utilizing yours. It'd be a neat idea to start a little link-sharing blog thingum. Like a mini-reddit at VS. I'll add a couple:

Former employees of Blackwater say it's owner, Eric Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe"

Mirror of the personal diary of the Pittsburgh shooter

*nochannel *femme *worldaffairs *news

Let me clarify a few common misconceptions.

1. Female circumcision predates the rise of Christianity and Islam.

2. There is no requirement for female circumcision in the Qu'ran nor in any Hadithas.

3. In Egypt, mufti Sheikh Ali Gomaa stated: "The traditional form of excision is a practice totally banned by Islam because of the compelling evidence of the extensive damage it causes to women's bodies and minds."

In March 2005, Dr Ahmed Talib, Dean of the Faculty of Sharia at Al-Azhar University, stated: "All practices of female circumcision and mutilation are crimes and have no relationship with Islam. Whether it involves the removal of the skin or the cutting of the flesh of the female genital organs... it is not an obligation in Islam." Both Christian and Muslim leaders have publicly denounced the practice of FGC since 1998.

4. However this is an old regional and cultural practice that seeps into societies, sometimes under the guise of Islam. Like many other stupid practices that somehow become Islamic because some idiot mullah or imam says so. On Wiki: "Despite laws forbidding the practice, FGC remains an enduring tradition in many societies and cultural groups. Political leaders have found FGC difficult to eliminate on the local level because of its cultural and sometimes political importance"

5. Most Islamic scholars or advocates of this practice are woefully ignorant and refuse to abide by the clear evidence that FGM is not obligatory or required in the Islamic faith.

>> ^messenger:
For the record,
generalization: n saying that all (or most, or...) of [A] are [B] because [localized group of A] are [B].
examples
Christians are intolerant. There's a church up the street that teaches intolerance.
Atheists are jerks. Look, you're a bunch of atheists and you're all jerks.
and
secular: a not religious
examples
Although 99% of Turks profess the Islamic faith, Turkey officially is a secular state.
Ignorants accused Saddam Hussein of being a religious terrorist even though his regime was secular.

If this is aimed at me, I wish to remind you that I said, "Oh, I'm definitely not saying that most Christians are intolerant." It amuses me when people who are not a target group claim that they have never encountered intolerance among Christians. Try being a minority for a year and say that again.

Also, I did not say that most Atheists are intolerant. I said that most Sifter Atheists are intolerant. "My greatest exposure to Atheists has been on the Sift, and I find them to be self-satisfied, intolerant, and confrontational. I trust that this does not reflect the general attitude of Atheists in the 'real world'."

In other words, I realize that Sifters do not accurately reflect the Atheist mentality.

For the record,

generalization: n saying that all (or most, or...) of [A] are [B] because [localized group of A] are [B].

examples
Christians are intolerant. There's a church up the street that teaches intolerance.
Atheists are jerks. Look, you're a bunch of atheists and you're all jerks.

and

secular: a not religious

examples
Although 99% of Turks profess the Islamic faith, Turkey officially is a secular state.
Ignorants accused Saddam Hussein of being a religious terrorist even though his regime was secular.