Did you even read the rest of my post?



Yes, I did, that's why I said "- and for just the kind of reasons you mention." My point was simply that this Apple doesn't come with the kind of stuff that would make me be happy about the extra cost.

but you won't get a Dell or HP workstation much cheaper even without those support options



We seem to. I haven't run numbers, but our normal Dell workstations are around this same class and come in $1500-$1600 (with a service plan, and after discounts). Anyways, I didn't compare this sort of thing initially because it's hard to compare apples to apples - I was just seeing what value there is for a consumer in this Mac Pro. Anyways, as before, I think there's Macs that they price reasonably - and others (like this0 that they're still gouging on because they can (there's segments of their market that are very price insensitive).

>> ^jmzero:

Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example

Well... I can't really compare it to, say, the Dell machines we get at work - and for just the kind of reasons you mention. My company pays a premium to Dell (though not as much as we'd pay for Apple) because Dell will drop-ship us a replacement at our whim and gives us reasonable corporate support.
With an Apple you're pretty much just getting the box at that price as far as I've ever figured (we do have some Macs here at work). And if you just want a box, I think it's fair to compare out the price of pats. That's why I compared it like I did.

Did you even read the rest of my post? No onsite support with replacement options is a HUGE drawback of the Mac Pro, but you won't get a Dell or HP workstation much cheaper even without those support options.

Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example



Well... I can't really compare it to, say, the Dell machines we get at work - and for just the kind of reasons you mention. My company pays a premium to Dell (though not as much as we'd pay for Apple) because Dell will drop-ship us a replacement at our whim and gives us reasonable corporate support.

With an Apple you're pretty much just getting the box at that price as far as I've ever figured (we do have some Macs here at work). And if you just want a box, I think it's fair to compare out the price of parts. That's why I compared it like I did. I mean, yeah, if they were doing some sort of corporate support at that price then it would make more sense.

You're gonna look real funny trying to use that computer without a power supply, keyboard, mouse, cables, fans, heat sink(s), software, etc



Yeah, sure, whatever - there's a couple $100 worth of stuff there (more, depending on how you value the software obviously). But, uh:

install Linux and whatever other free software you want for probably about 20% less.



How do you figure that? Even if I spend $1500 (and by now I've got better components in every single slot), I'm still left with $1000 to, uh, buy Linux. That's about $1000, or 40%. That's significant. And the fact is I'd rather have my current home computer (worth $1200 when I bought it a year ago) than that Mac. You're just not getting much for $2500.

Again, if there's some reason you want a Mac, then GO FOR IT! - but I don't see how you can deny there's a significant price premium, at least on this model (again, there's other Macs that I think have reached reasonable price levels).

>> ^jmzero:

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.

Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.


Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example - those are the machines you should compare to.
You'll find that they are in the same ballpark.

Price is definitely not something I'd hold against the Mac Pro, that would be stuff like:
- weak expandability (1 PCIe16+2 PCIe4, 4 drive bays, max 64GB RAM),
- lacking features (eg. no SAS or SATA 6G, no USB3.0, weak selection of graphics/GPGPU cards)
- weak support options (no onsite support available at all?! I'm running a business here - do you really expect me to haul my workstation to the Genius Bar when a deadline is imminent?)

I'm tired of this whole "you copied me!" battle going on between them. Everyone copies everyone. Look @ the 2002 pocket pc from HP and tell me the 2007 iphone got nothing from that. Puhleeze.

If only more consumer electronics had female names and could be bought from stores with dorky (apologies to any Wallace's out there) male names.

"Honey, I'm just popping down to Neville's to pick up the latest Samsung Agnes!"

One day travelling on the train to work.
"Wow, what's that you have there?"
"This is the latest tablet from HP, it's called the...Deidre, I got a great deal down at Nigel"

>> ^kymbos:

Slowly but surely, I am trying to turn myself into a curmudgeon. Now get off my lawn!


Missed opportunity.

>> ^Lendl:

Side discussion: purposefully not putting parody and comedy tags to avoid spoiling it vs just put them on there anyway to avoid confusing people?
Go.


If you can't figure out it's a parody, you are probably already quite confused.

>> ^PostalBlowfish:

I have 2 TB of drives in my local computer. I could backup everything I have three or four times and still not fill 2 TB. So I don't need to backup my shit online, but more important than need, I don't understand why I would want to hand over my files to someone else.
Because while you're protected if your primary drive goes "BRAAAARRRRGGG-KCH-KCH-KCH-KCH-KCH", if your home burns then your backup drive is as toast as your primary. You need offsite redundancy.


Personally, I use CrashPlan to backup from my home computer to an external drive on my work computer. (I own my business, in case you were wondering about that.) So, it's still not "The Cloud", which is...The Internet? Apparently?

>> ^Lendl:

Side discussion: purposefully not putting parody and comedy tags to avoid spoiling it vs just put them on there anyway to avoid confusing people?
Go.


Soon as you start the video you can see the onion - NN symbol. Even if you don't, I think it stands either way...so might as well categorize it properly.

Your video, HP Offers 'That Cloud Thing Everyone Is Talking About', has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

This achievement has earned you your "Pop Star" Level 2 Badge!

I'd say HP isn't exactly riding the wave of consumer trends these days.>> ^Deano:

parody
I take it that HP are awful...

*parody

I take it that HP are awful...

Let's see...500+ hp...top speed of almost 200 mph...and a price tag of $250-300k. I gonna assume that someone made a poor decision in taking that thing out for a ride in the rain.

>> ^A10anis:

Man, I worked on a production line once. Actually, literally, once. I came in for second shift, said f'k this, and walked out. Seriously, if you're young and want to avoid such mind numbing, demoralizing, work, stick to your dream.


And people wonder why and complain when they go to China for manufacturing.