the whole 'worthless degrees' is largely bogus. unless it's a DJT University ratskin, just the experience alone broads a person's mind (some more/some less).

a cartoon once read where a woman lamented to her girlfriend, that as a housewife, she didn't get to use her psychology degree. her husband interrupts them complaining about the cleanness of the floors. the wife tells him she just did them and the argument goes into overdrive. finally, she chides him w/"oh! big talk! as if you could do better!" oh, of course, he takes the bait, rolls up his sleeves...and the wife's friend smilingly says "you never use it?"

don't think it ever goes to total waste.

and bk33's contention that free education would be undervalued is largely bupkiss too: the desire to pay back is often a motivation; enhances the tax base; fills jobs that translate to greater national security...etc. the value is too great to be ignored. for the country or the individual.

even if it was worthless, it still can be appreciated. like the time Bob Newhart told the story of a tryst he had w/a woman he met at a party. both drunk, ending up in the back of his car - - as he put it, "it meant nothing. never saw her again. it was the cheapest, meaningless moment that i'll never forget for the rest of my life!"

btw: an idea of what a French citizen pays at the Sorbonne
https://www.unipage.net/en/5563/paris_sorbonne_university

https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/

holds water. at the time, thought with derisive cyniscism 'why is he doing this? maybe he wants to be sure the GOP has enough voters!'

held that thought privately until it became obvious.

yeah. most enlightened (the truly bright) find education a gift that all people should be given. ben franklin, Andrew Carnegie, et al knew the deep effect of education on a people/nation/society.

'sides, doesn't do the US well to have hungry air force personnel mistakenly launch missiles when they thought the button said 'lunch'.

not just the colleges that are out of line - but let's skip that...

no offense but wanting something bad isn't a guarantee. hanging from a cliff, one really wants not to be - but the reality might have a stronger pull on them.

so what about it? were the payments that made bob a better man? if it cost half as much, you'd been half the man? would find that...dubious.

know people that ace your struggle story*. not one wants that for another. if they had it easier, it would have been easier. they found very little endearing about it. yes, they strived but know they had it better than some. it's just reality. https://youtu.be/OF4JCmqF6ec

am down w/'free' education. smarter people make for smarter people. goes along w/the idea of one generation making it better for the next. (WhereTF has that gone?)

btw: bet you're right about dad. good for you. now, go get a cookie.


*or to some 'Mein Kampf'

How smart is it to have such a flammable product stored like this. You would be just as stupid as the curious dipshit. Can only hope some intelligence was gained at the same cost as a Harvard education.

Your point?
States with highest gun violence rates
Mississippi -- 28.6 per 100000
Louisiana -- 26.3.
Wyoming -- 25.9.
Missouri -- 23.9.
Alabama -- 23.6.
Alaska -- 23.5.
The list, and trend continues.
Republican states consistently have higher gun death rates, the top ten states for gun deaths are all Republican led….so much for blaming Democrats.
Republicans don’t care. The #’s point this out horrifically and consistently.
Republican states also don’t care about keeping the lights on or having running water in their cities anymore…I’m looking at you, Texas and Mississippi. Florida has abandoned education in favor of far right wing indoctrination for children (maybe with field trips to Epstein island with the ex president if they’re good and pretty and will sign a binding NDA).

(Pretty chicken shit to claim Dems don’t care, while Cons block every attempt they make to solve the issue, but you do you.)

Um….did I EVER advocate gun free zones, or even indicate I think they’re possible in America? I don’t think so. Why must you always fight windmills and paper tigers? It doesn’t make you sound sane.
It would be excellent…if it were possible. No one is hunting inside city limits, if no one had guns, no one would need guns. It’s not possible unless we take drastic, unconstitutional actions (or change the constitution like the founders intended).

There aren’t enough gun regulations when a schizophrenic person can legally buy as many guns and as much ammo as they wish, and so can murderous gang members who served their sentence/probation.

They DO need MUCH better enforcement of existing gun laws, we agree there. If laws were applied consistently regardless of the perp, there would already be less gun crime. The problem with that being prisons are so overcrowded they simply cannot house more, and most police seem to not be interested in or capable of legal crime-preventative policing, so making illegal gun possession/use come with harsher sentences simply isn’t going to happen….and has never worked to stop crime.

They also need to remove “loopholes” (intentional back doors) that allow mentally ill and violent criminals to legally purchase firearms with absolutely no background checks and no paperwork. Seems to be a no brainer, but your ilk calls that “terkin’ er guns” (I have to believe because you know you’re all insane and can’t pass mental health screenings), not sane regulation.

No surprise you think more draconian punishment is the answer….how’s that been working out? Not great. Countries that focus on rehabilitation of convicts instead of simple housing for profit have recidivism rates near zero, unlike the US.

Using a gun in the commission of a crime already comes with pretty harsh penalties, btw….often turning misdemeanors into felonies just by having it, not using it.

Prison reform is one part of any functional answer, not more, bigger, worse prisons for longer sentences. Funny, you thought the same when Jan 6 defendants started being rounded up and denied bail…odd you cared about all those ANTIFA and BLM activist though. 😂

Wait a minute….didn’t you recently brag about how well your dad did in life despite dropping out in 8th grade?

Yeah, great plan, lower assistance hoping the for profit schools will do the right thing at their own expense, and if they don’t, it’s just some poor kids that don’t get an education, so a nothing burger. How Republican of you, let’s try the thing that enriches the rich while the poor take 100% of the risk.

Truly there should be a helping hand to bright students who can't get a scholarship, loans to to to higher education.


I was poor student , didnt care about it got low grades. -- A year of washing dishes made me think find a white collar job. Dad refused to pay / help. I ended up getting student loans.

Dads motto -
IF you want something bad enough you will find a way.

Dad was a HS grad and was writing quotes for Navy Nuclear and many other million $ bids. Smartest man I know.

Paid my way through Penn State, slept on the floor, no heat 1/2 year ---- but I did it . Paid back my student loans and I am a better person for it.

higher education should place a finical burden on you - You will work harder because you can't afford to fck around.

That being said college / universities are over charging and raping students more and more every year.

? do college charge more because they know that the student can get the loan? I think so.

I think If you drop the amount a student can get in loans I sure tuition will drop to that level --- Supply and demand.

Unfortunately the republican party seems to excel at convincing a huge percentage of their membership to vote against their best interests. The less educated republican voters you refer to have been manipulated to benefit the 'club' that Beau talks about in the video.

This holds for education, but also for plenty of other subjects, like universal healthcare, taxation, and even foreign military policy.

I think this argument is invalid from the standpoint of what groups of people he is talking about. The people who tend to value free education by supplementing with tax dollars tend to vote democrat. People who want to keep education expensive and withhold tax aid tend to be republican. Particularly in these modern times: the exit polls show that the more educated you are, the more likely you were to vote democrat. The most educated people seem to be electing those who would like to make education low cost.

Given this, the argument that 'education is kept expensive to keep competition down' is unlikely (though not impossible) to come from an educated person...because the statistics show that this tends to not be the values of an educated person. The educated 'club' tends to value exactly the opposite, and wants everyone to be educated.

I think there should be free Community College for anyone that wants to go, but I also think college isn't for everyone, and Trade schools should also be free (I've seen plenty of plumbers that charge hourly rates more than lawyers).

As far as other colleges, there should be merit scholarships for anyone who does well at Community College can transfer to those for years 3 & 4.

I had a merit-based scholarship for my undergrad, but it was conditioned on maintaining a 3.0 GPA (B average or higher). If it went under 3.0 for two semesters, scholarship gone. Also required finishing in 4 years, so I had to take 15-18 credits every semester. I also worked part-time during semester and full-time in summers to pay down the loans (that the grants & scholarship didn't cover), so graduated debt free. I also can see I'm an exception rather than the norm.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone getting higher education. I also think some people who drop out when they are 18-22 years old, could go instead when they are older and more mature and totally succeed, so don't force it immediately after high school. Part of that is pressure from being allowed on your parents health insurance if you're in school up to a certain age... universal health care coverage (public option) would fix that and should be a higher priority than universal college. I voted for Bernie.

the idea that those who support Roe v Wade are de-fetusists is absurd. it's reality. it's compassion. it's knowing life is cruel and we don't have to make it crueler.

even the belief that life begins at conception, ignores a significant fact: ~20% of all pregnancies end in stillbirth or miscarriages. many unnoticed or unknown. meaning a Crane takes many babies away before the crane can deliver them.

if the jokes ^ can make a person winch, then why doesn't knowing a woman will die not register? all for a law w/o good intent. for the intent to be real, there would be other realities already in place, such as...

- sex education - at all levels
- contraception for both sexes (even subsidized)
- prenatal care for the viable & wanted
- education for parents
- time off for parents
- groups privately aiding in the care (churches, societies...)
- daycare is provided privately, thru companies, or publically funded

...just possibly a few 'tells' that the morally magnificent are serious.


BTW: the FBI is no lie. don is dead in the water. cry a river but the flood awaits. don't know what's on the papers other than his ass. w/o someone paying the attys - he is defenseless. three times over - he is spit in the ocean. bet me.

It’s what he is trying to stop the FBI from looking at (3 weeks after they seized it-HA). Sorry, do you think the public will get to see the unredacted list of exactly what secrets they found there? Good luck, that’s classified. What we do have is a list of how many, and what classification was found, and that includes the highest level of classification never allowed outside secure locations (nuclear secrets would be in that category).
Be clear, nuclear secrets covers a ton, not just the launch codes some suspect.
P.s. based on past behavior, he may still have nuclear secrets too.
Also be clear, Trump’s legal team has made no moves at all to ask for more openness or less secrecy, the media has. Trump’s team has made a half assed attempt to keep even the FBI and DOJ from reviewing them with clearance in secure locations, trying to hide what he stole from anyone. Lol.

Where is it? Either the FBI or DOJ.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/11/garland-trump-mar-a-lago/
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/donald-trump-really-bring-nuclear-secrets-mar-lago-rcna42794
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/08/donald-trump-fbi-raid-mar-a-lago-nuclear-weapons-documents
https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-secrets-already-fell-wrong-handstrumps-opinion-1733711
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-nuclear-weapons-issue-is-hoax-after-washington-post-report-2022-08-12/

If being curious enough to investigate the things I don’t know AND the things I do know to be sure I’m correct in my memory is elitist, fine.
If calling out made up nonsense and liars is elitist, I’ll accept that gladly.
If debating using facts from reliable cited sources and reason is elitist, mea culpa.

Can you define the mindset, or would any definition suit you more than me so it’s better to not define your insult?
Elite-the most powerful, rich, gifted, or educated members of a group, community, etc. I am none of those, I might be one of the better researchers with a decent, not great education. The internet makes us all equal in knowledge if you know how to research….hint, it’s not by reading one article that tells you only what you already believe. I’m not the most rich, powerful, or educated here…are you calling me gifted?
…and you say you’re rich, educated, and I bet you think gifted….aren’t you elitist? You definitely think you know it all despite being demonstrably wrong near 100% of the time on any subject.

No, sorry friendo, you are an immense asshole constantly to nearly everyone, both personally and politically. I’m an asshole to you, because I believe that’s what liars deserve, and you lie constantly and absolutely never admit you were mistaken (why I say you lie and weren’t just incorrect).

Talk about being delusional. Trump HAD nuclear secrets (and/or other national secrets of the same highest possible level secrecy classification and danger levels never to be kept or read outside secure facilities designed to safeguard such sensitive information.) kept them unsecured in publicly accessible areas of his public club filled with foreign nationals…and thinks it’s fine he stole and exposed them. That’s delusional.

If he still any, he should absolutely be shot for treason at first sight by any and every patriot regardless of party, right?

What can’t he hold? Anything not actually officially declassified on Jan 20, 2020.
This includes all top secrets and nuclear secrets he cannot declassify himself, and 700 pages of classified documents he did not declassify before stealing them on his way out the door. His claim “anything I took was automatically declassified” is nonsense. That’s not how declassification works at all….you know that.

Where can’t he hold it? In boxes in the hallway outside the unlocked basement in his club where foreign nationals are allowed to wander freely, where Chinese and now Russian spies are KNOWN to have penetrated carrying bags of surveillance and recording equipment, spyware ready to install, etc. Even frat boys have just wandered in off the beach to these areas. It makes Clinton’s server look like Fort Knox. For the highest classification documents, they can only be kept at hardened secure locations designated for that purpose…not a closet, basement, hallway….not even a fire safe.

There’s no enlightening you. You prefer to live in the dark. It’s easier to make up lies and convince yourself of nonsense if you never look at reality. Any facts you dislike you simply discard, thinking your magic mantra, “fake news”, protects you from reality. Any lies you find comforting you simply believe and absolutely refuse to consider reality. It’s a serious mental issue, and if Reagan hadn’t defunded national mental health care, you would be institutionalized, but the right prefers the insane to be among us because they tend to vote Republican.

This answer has nothing to do with the Majestic Spaghetti Monster….I don’t know what you mean….

…but stupid elitists are on the right, they’re the ones who took millions in ppp loan forgiveness (often for fraudulent ppp loans for employees they didn’t have) but claim $10k to poor people trying to become educated will ruin the nation, turn us communist, bankrupt us, etc.. It’s fine if billionaires get handouts of multiple trillions, not a peep of concern then, but not those struggling with crushing debt from fake schools like Trump’s that stole their money for a completely worthless piece of paper and zero education….the same millionaires up in arms over the poor getting $10k took hundreds of thousands to millions despite making the equivalent of over $250k (and millions if they cheat, which the ALL did, insider trading is the norm from the right).

Elitist?! 😂 again, we live with 2 people on under $40k in California….near poverty level. Hard to be elitist and in poverty at the same time. Elitists are people making $250k, another million in insider trading profits, and $3 million in forgiven loans who complain poor people shouldn’t get $10k rebates, but they should get more tax breaks. That’s an elitist stupid answer, it came directly from your Republican representatives like MTG.

I’m not rich, I’m stable. We have no debts, property taxes of only $1250, and I grow over 50% of our food. We live better than most middle class, including international vacations almost yearly, 4 cars, all the top notch organic produce we can eat, a swimming pool size koi pond, Solar, an orchard, no government handouts, etc. all on poverty level income. I’ve never shirked a debt, not once. I’ve never even walked away from an obligation. If you were capable of taking in new information, you would know all that because I’ve told you repeatedly.

>50% chance of sterility and other lifelong severe health issues, 10% chance of death…EVERY FUCKING TIME they deny this type of medical necessity abortion, with zero chance of the fetus surviving to term under any circumstances, not that that would benefit anyone to torture a baby with an excruciating pain filled minimal temporary life of suffering like that would cause.
Proof it’s never been about saving life, it’s all about forcing their religious dogma on everyone, seizing power over people’s lives.

Forget the fact that there’s no chambered heart to beat until around 12 weeks, and not a functional heart with working muscle tissue able to pump any fluid until after 20 weeks, so the entire premise is based on lies, intentional misidentifying a nerve twitch as a “heartbeat” despite there being no heart at all to beat….almost like they think they thought the con through despite not possessing a functioning brain.
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=167987

Waiting for @bobknight33 to say he knows better because he does routine maintenance on ultrasound machines (but has no biology or anatomy education). Sorry, Slingblade, that doesn’t give you knowledge.

It’s not hard to be a Republican with a heart and a mind, it’s absolutely impossible.