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Trump Supporter CHANGES MIND on Biden in 60sec

newtboy says...

As usual, you have it all 100% backwards. Not surprising since you are a Russian propagandist.
Russia secretly invaded Ukraine in 2014 as pure expansionism, when they finally admitted the invasion their excuse was Russians in Crimea were being poorly treated and a fear extremists would take over Russian military bases, having absolutely nothing to do with NATO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#:~:text=Russia%20eventually%20admitted%20its%20troops,Russian%20military%
20infrastructure%20by%20extremists%22.

NATO is now “creeping into buffer countries” because Russia started and continues an expansionist policy and threatens its neighbors. Russian expansionism started first. There have been 3 rounds of NATO expansion since Russia started retaking now sovereign lost satellite territories in 2014.
There was never an agreement that NATO wouldn’t accept new members, just as there’s nothing stopping Russia from making allies.
Ukraine was going to be an EU country until Russia’s installed “president” ignored the people and chose Russia over Ukraine and was deposed and expelled so Ukrainians could democratically choose their own leadership which they did. Then Russia invaded.
There was absolutely no chance of them joining NATO until after the invasion, now it’s a near certainty.

Democracy in Europe IS our business. We will be fighting this war at some time, either now while Russia is weak and poor through a proxy or later when we are in a much weaker position fighting them with American soldiers directly…much better to choose now for less money and zero Americans, I know you would prefer to just let Putin re-annex the Balkan states and expand as far as he chooses, returning to socialist communism under his tyrannical leadership, but the free world would prefer to stay free.

And again, it is our business as I clearly explained to you repeatedly because we signed, and actually directed the trilateral disarmament agreement in 92 when we agreed to secure their borders against any incursion and they gave up nuclear weapons the collapsing soviets couldn’t afford to secure themselves. You would make any future agreements, and any current treaties moot and impossible to guarantee because our guarantee is worse than worthless. So shortsighted and not smart. It’s important to keep your word internationally, I know as a MAGgot that doesn’t make sense, just like telling the truth even if it hurts you doesn’t make sense to you…honesty and honor are foreign concepts to your ilk.
It would be nice if you could remember being so wrong so I didn’t have to correct you over and over and over on the exact same topic…but you can’t admit you are wrong so you will forget you were proven wrong, again, and spout the same ignorance, again, forever. So sad and mentally defective….it’s a main feature of MAGA, severe brain damage.

Walk away MAGA policies would hand the world to China, Russia, and N Korea without a word of complaint, then confusion over where our allies are when they come for us.
Ukraine is a war Russia started, one that’s being won by Ukraine with help, and one that has crippled Russia for decades to come WAY cheaper than any American policy could have. Give Joe credit, fine, Joe bankrupted Russia and destroyed their military…I don’t give him that credit, you do.

No, leftists said he would bring us into ruin, and that if he followed trough with his stated intentions he would bring us into war…but he never follows through and caved to China and Russia instead of standing strong for American ideals, interests, and Western democracy. He nearly did start a war by assassinating Iranian government officials and Syrians. I remember when you said ISIS was a nothing burger and not worth paying attention to, right before they took near half of Iraq and Syria, started attacking Americans, and we went to war with them in 2017…who was president then?
We were still at war in Afghanistan when he left office, he had just surrendered unconditionally to the Taliban and Al Qaeda under an agreement they broke repeatedly, but we were still there until Biden (poorly) facilitated the retreat Trump negotiated. Trump/MAGA didn’t avoid or end wars. Nice try at revisionism.

The policy bringing the US near war today is our Israel policy that is the same unthinking blind support for Israel from both parties, same from both presidential candidates. We are in direct military actions endangering American soldiers daily because of THAT conflict, not because of Ukraine. The unbridled ignorance is disappointing even from you. 🤦‍♂️

Ending wars by capitulating like Trump did with Crimea and surrendering unconditionally like Trump did in Afghanistan is not “winning”, it’s losing without even trying and hands the world to dictators.

bobknight33 said:

The kid is asking the wrong question.

The question is Why is Russia invading Ukraine.

The answer is NATO creeping into buffer countries that was agreed on after the fall of Russia.

NATO has not stopped expanding since the fall of the Soviet Union, growing from 17 countries in 1990 to 30 today, several of which were once part of the Soviet-led Warsaw pact.


Finally Ukraine is not a NATO country----------- This is none of our business.


Biden failed Policies have done nothing but keeping pushing for war --

Ukraine is a lost war.

FJB

You leftest said if Trump was POTUS - He would bring us into war--- Never happened.
MEGA 2024 to end wars.

Pedo-Trump

newtboy says...

Epstein was caught running a child prostitution ring OVER 20 years ago, running it during the multi decade time period he and Trump had been best friends and party partners…and he plead guilty. Trump continued his best friend relationship “we have similar taste in girls” with him for years AFTER HE PLEAD GUILTY TO CHILD PROSTITUTION until his employees and guest’s daughters threatened to sue Trump for letting him hunt for young girls at Maralago…and Epstein was still instrumental in getting Trump elected in 2016 when he set up Trump’s campaign officials with major donors and Russians. They never ended the relationship, Trump just didn’t want the liability.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/jeffrey-epstein-trump-associates-ab19d1f0


Trump is on the list…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/03/jeffrey-epstein-list-clinton-trump/72086945007/#
…the list is a list of people he had contact with or that were mentioned in depositions for an earlier case, not a “client” list, and yes Clinton is on it, as expected.….TRUMP IS ALSO ON THE FLIGHT LIST GOING TO EPSTEIN’S CHILD RAPE ISLAND 7 TIMES BEFORE 98, CLINTON IS NOT ON ANY LIST OF VISITORS TO THE CHILD RAPE ISLAND. 😂

bobknight33 said:

1/4/24
The Epstein client list came out yesterday and the Democrats and the never-Trumpers are going apoplectic over B

Trump banned Epstein from all Trump properties over 15 years ago.

Bill Clinton being on the client list while Donald Trump is not:

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Oooff….Ken Block has written an op ed. Ken Block is the owner of the company Trump hired to find voter fraud in the 2020 election. Here’s what he said.

“ I am the expert who was hired by the Trump campaign, the findings of my company's in-depth analysis, or detailed in the depositions taken by the Select committee to investigate the January 6th attack on the United States Capitol. The transcripts show that the campaign found no evidence of voter fraud sufficient to change the outcome of any election. That message was communicated directly to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, the cries that the election was lost or stolen due to voter fraud continue with no sign of stopping.
The constant drumbeat hardens people's hearts and minds to the truth about the 2020 election. Emails and documents show that the voter data available to the campaign contained no evidence of large scale voter fraud based on data mining and fraud analytics. More important claims of voter fraud made by others were verified as false, including proof of why those claims were disproven. What these claims don't take into account is that voter fraud is detectable, quantifiable, and verifiable. I have yet to see anyone offer up evidence of voter fraud from the 2020 election that provides these three things. My company's contract with the campaign obligated us to deliver evidence of voter fraud that could be defended in a court of law. The small amount of voter fraud I found was bipartisan with about as many Republicans casting duplicate votes as Democrats. “
He paid millions for that report he then threw in the trash. The other company he hired found exactly the same thing.

More proof that the Trump team knew for certain there was no significant fraud, proved there was no fraud, but continued to claim they had proof there was massive fraud…and continues to tell that lie today despite all evidence to the contrary.



Question- How many times did Trump take the Lolita express to Child Rape Island? The previous flight log, from 93-97, showed Trump took at least 7 trips to child rape island with his friend and party partner Epstein in that time period, the same period Epstein admitted he ran a child prostitution ring from his island. He’s already caught.
Yes, Clinton is on the list, but he is not listed as ever going to the island where the young children were presented to guests for sex. He only accepted a donation of use of the plane WITHOUT EPSTEIN PRESENT.
Never forget Trump was best friends with Epstein not just during the 10 year time period when he admitted the child prostitution, but continued for almost a decade AFTER HE ADMITTED TO CHILD PROSTITUTION in the early 2000’s and only broke ties when Trump’s young female employees threatened to sue Trump for forcing them to be together unsupervised with Epstein at Maralago where he tried to rape them repeatedly.
Also don’t forget Trump was found liable for sexual abuse including rape…Donald John Trump is in fact a rapist, and it seems impossible given his long history of inappropriate sexual behavior towards them and uncountable past statements indicating his predilection for sex with underage girls that he’s not also a child rapist.
https://videosift.com/video/Pedo-Trump

This is you guy…this you pick. 🤦‍♂️

Planes Collide And Explode At Haneda Airport

ant says...

And decade like delayed Olympics, assassination of Shinzo Abe, etc.

newtboy said:

Adding injury to injury, the plane hit was heading to rescue earthquake victims.
You’re absolutely right, it’s definitely not Japan’s year so far.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy jokingly says...

I’m pretty certain no Democratic representative has ever tried to claim he has a medical need for child porn to treat his autism and depression after his wife left because he’s a child molester, and that his massive cash of child porn was medicinal.

Republicans have.

😂 Can’t wait for the Epstein list next week. Trump is going to be the number one visitor on that list for well over a decade….everyone knows it. 😂

Judge Pronounced Trump Guilty Before Trial Began!

newtboy says...

🤦‍♂️No bob, they are not. THE FACTS WERE NOT DISPUTED BY TRUMP OR THE TRUMP ORG AT ALL, not in court…he submitted most of them.
Trump disputes the facts on camera, but not in court under oath. He can’t. The documents are what they are. He was too cowardly and guilty to take the stand…his smartest move yet.
Trump valued Maralago at $18 million for taxes, not the DA. He also valued it at 100 times that value to get good loan terms that saved him hundreds of millions the banks and county were then deprived of because of his fraud. Understand? I’m sure not.
I did the math, if his stated bank values are truthful, he defrauded the government out of well over $700 million in decades of unpaid taxes for one property.

What was presented during the prosecution “side” of the “hearing” bob? Nothing…because there was no prosecution phase, it was summary judgement based on what was presented by both parties during DISCOVERY. There has only been a “damages” phase of trial since the prima facie case made at discovery necessitated a sumary judgement…not a “prosecution side”.

Bob. This is civil court, not a criminal trial. Please stop trying to explain things you are wholly ignorant about.

In your example, a criminal trial with different rules, the defense could be you didn’t see them, or they dove in front of your moving car, or you were having a medical issue….or one of a thousand mitigating factors. Trump presented no mitigating factors explaining the frauds, the differing values that changed 10000% in value on paper with his signature swearing to the truthfulness of the values he presented, values he knew were fantasy, so was found guilty.
(Side note- in your example the victim’s heirs would also get a civil trial where prima facie guilt would be established by the witnesses and your admission you hit them and you would need to have evidence supporting your affirmative defense that it was under duress to evade liability, just as they would need to prove malicious intent or recklessness to get punitive damages, IMO).

😂 “Property values can’t be fraud in any way”. 😂 hilarious since submitting fraudulent values is exactly what he was found guilty of! 😂

The banks indicated massive fraud, who told you they didn’t? Trump? The banks lost over $180 million in interest they should have received if the collateral values had been correct. Yes, they made some money, but lost out on $180 million plus.
When you get a loan based on fraud like this, even if you pay it back you still comitted a crime and any penny you made from that crime can be recovered from you, exactly what’s happening.
It’s as if Trump submitted documents “proving” his credit rating was 800 but in fact it was below 400, then saying it’s no crime because he paid his low interest credit card bills, pay no attention to the lower rates and perks he received because of his fraud, they’re nothingburgers…$180 million nothing burgers.

This is a BS showman disgraced ex president caught red handed. You know it, he knows it. No one is blinded, you are simply dishonest.

What of me statement are bullshit or not in this hearing/case?
The disclaimers don’t mean Trump can just make up the numbers, like he did. I know he claims that, he already lost that point in court. He gave fraudulent numbers, values, square footage, claimed unpermitted unbuilt rentals were filled and collecting rent, claims he didn’t add “brand value” but it’s there listed on the documents.

lol. You get your “information” from crack heads, failed comedians turned pundits, and con men like rapist Trump. I get mine directly from the courts, then verify, then look at what nonsense MAGA is saying about it, then debunk your nonsense. Stop projecting. I’m not stupid. I’m no dick. I have almost no ego. I simply hate stupid lies and the stupid lying liars who lie them stupidly and I have the testicular fortitude and perspicacity to factually contradict them with facts, figures, and references.

You don’t ever look for shit, you liar. You take what the MAGA machine hands you and you say what they said to say. You haven’t had an individual thought since you’ve been posting here, not one. Every word you post can be found in the MAGAsphere written by someone else who makes money by telling you lies to repeat.

Yes, Trump was found guilty during discovery before the courtroom trial began, which is perfectly normal and reasonable in cases where the evidence is incontrovertible like this one. That’s the United States legal system, no surprise you don’t understand it….you don’t understand thing about my country.

Now whine that he couldn’t have a jury trial just because he didn’t ask for one until after his trial had started. So unfair! 😂

bobknight33 said:

But the facts are disputed , which mitigates the ability of the judge to make such decision. This was presented during the 11 weeks of the prosecution side of this hearing.



It only work is such cases as for example 5 people see me run over and kill someone. That is not is dispute.
What is or could be to mitigate my conviction is to show just cause -- IE being robed at gunpoint or such.


This "trial" is about property value. This cant be fraud in any way. Trump places a value and banks do the same and an agreement is made. No bank or lender indicated fraud -- Every bank got paid back, with interest and some made other deals on other projects.

This is a BS show trial. prejudged before it even started.

Only the ignorant are blinded.

All you statement below are bullshit -- none of that in this hearing. Every proposal for loans clearly had disclaimers for banks to do their own due diligence in their evaluation. Some thought higher some though lower-- but all made loans and got paid back.


Sadly stupid dicks with big egos, like you push false information.

I look for actual facts like presented -- Her own words - Trump Guilty before the trial began-- Thats BS

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Documentation of the blackmail scheme has surfaced proving Thomas and Scalia told Republican members of congress that if they didn’t raise their compensation in 2000 they would leave the court. At the time, after over a decade on the court at $175k (in the 80s and 90s that was a lot), Thomas’s lavish spending had him millions in debt.

Republicans couldn’t get the votes to raise their pay significantly, but they COULD hook them up with billionaires that would gift them millions per year. As soon as the donors stepped up, he suddenly had millions in the bank and all debts wiped clean. Now he’s worth tens of millions. Republicans are firmly against imposing ANY ethics requirements for the Supreme Court and are actively blocking imposing any as long as they have the majority in the court and the deepest pockets to bribe them with.

Today he takes home a half million on top of millions in bribes every year, and you turn the other way and put blinders on to cling to your tenuous political power instead of acting to save the nation. Shows where MAGAs heads are.

Ukraine defeat, Gaza slaughter: Where is the outrage?

newtboy says...

Disgraced Faux Judge “Spank me hard Daddy” Napolitano, Bobby? He’s the best you can do?
Wow, you’re really scraping the barrel.
A reminder….
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-judge-andrew-napolitano-faces-second-sexual-assault-lawsuit

What nonsense. Wishful thinking propaganda by America hating, democracy hating, Biden hating idiots and criminals. Good job bob.

EDIT- The outrage is out there, friendo. The UN is calling out war crimes. Many western nations are too. Many Americans are too. I have for decades.

Recently reports and evidence have proven Israel knew Hamas was planning the attack over a year before it happened, they apparently had the entire 40 page plan in hand, and was getting their own intelligence saying they were implementing the exact plan they knew about in the weeks and months leading up to the attack, the exact plan they implemented on Oct 7. Netanyahu’s administration decided to take no action at all, seemingly allowing the attack as a pretext to a war they wanted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

Friendly reminder, most Palestinians are pure Semites, direct descendants of ancient civilizations that spoke the Semitic language like Babylonians, Phoenicians, Cannanites, Assyrians, Akkadians, Arabs, and Hebrews… most Jewish Israelis are not even partly Semitic they are Europeans…so technically supporting Israel against Palestine is anti-Semitic, not the other way around like the official narrative claims.

GTA VI Trailer

newtboy says...

Is it possible I’m the only person on the sift excited for GTA6!?!
I can’t fathom how it’s been up for 12 hours with only 1 view!
I was shocked this was released days ago and no one posted it, now even more so. I’ve been pensively awaiting this trailer for over a decade.

A Definitely True Message From George Santos

newtboy says...

You say both sides because you can not admit your team is based on pure criminality and Democrats are not, proven by their track records in court where more administration MAGgots have been convicted of more crimes against the state than in all administrations combined throughout American history and very few Democrats have even been charged with crimes in recent decades, much less convicted.

Democrats have never tried to illegally take office by force and fraud, Trump and MAGA did.

You don’t have a single example of a dem that’s 10% as dishonest and criminal as the average MAGgot. If you did, you wouldn’t ever stop posting about them.

You bother to post volumes of nonsense you know will be debunked and dismissed, what could possibly be different about proving Democratic criminality? Why is THAT not important enough for you, but defending Elon is? Insulting Pelosi is. Defending Jan 6 traitors is. Making up nonsense about BLM and ANTIFA is. 🤦‍♂️

bobknight33 said:

I say both sides because it is both sides. You just so biased that you done even see it.

I dont bother to post because whats the point - you will just dismiss it an its just not worth the time.

Republicans Start Telling The Truth

newtboy says...

I guess you couldn’t find a loser American with that idiotic a viewpoint that intentionally missed the point entirely. Loser!

In case you really are dumb enough to believe this red herring twaddle, it’s not about saying the word pussy, it’s about him bragging about his long disgusting history of raping and sexually abusing women, giving gifts in hopes of buying a chance to fuck his friend’s wives, paying for sex with porn stars, paying for sex with playboy bunnies, leering at 14 year old girls in their dressing rooms against their will, and being best friends and party buddy with Epstein for decades…all while married, and generally having nothing but distain and a total lack of respect for women…a misogynistic abusive history now codified in legal history, Trump is the only president found legally in court to be an actual RAPIST!
Character matters, especially in the highest office on the planet. That should not need saying, but clearly your ilk has forgotten.

Trump is a MUCH bigger pussy than Biden when the chips are down, he caves every time, he only talks tough and never to his target’s face. His foreign policy was essentially “what would you like” to our enemies…he caved to the Taliban 100% when they were nearly wiped out and handed them back their army and walked away from the Afghan government with a total (unplanned) retreat for instance….why? What did they give us in return? Nothing. He just caved. He’s even afraid to walk down a low angle ramp by himself.

bobknight33 said:

Foreign Trumpist nonsense.

Pot Will Kill You

newtboy says...

Where I live, the first dispensary opened in 1999. There is never a line here.

We are in the process of trying to either move the cannabis cup from Amsterdam to Humboldt or starting a new international competition. It’s about time the emerald triangle gets recognition for decades of cultivating the highest quality most potent unadulterated marijuana grown in America, maybe the world.

BSR said:

The legal sale of adult-use marijuana began in New Jersey on April 21, 2022. I see up to 30 customers sometimes waiting in line to buy weed in my town in NJ.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Again, let me remind you this was a primary, and nothing was proven, but it’s the right thing to rerun it in this instance since there’s plenty of time to do so. If you read the article you linked (and understood English) you would have known you had everything wrong.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bridgeport-election-overturned-after-city-official-pleads-5th-ballot-harvesting
No conviction, and no candidate involved. The Democratic Party wanted a rerun too. Not the case when Republicans have been caught…there, candidates were involved and the RNC tried to fight for the fraudsters, against fair elections.


For you - https://www.rawstory.com/republican-arrested-2666174610/

Another Republican representative arrested for kiddie porn, hours before the election.
Brad Benson, who was running for Place #4 on the Granbury City Council in Texas, was arrested on Nov. 6. He stayed on the ballot.

It’s not a true one or the other choice, but if I had to choose I would much prefer a candidate with one possibly criminal employee he disavows strongly over an actual child porn purveyor.

And don’t forget the armed drug dealing poop schmear… https://www.mensjournal.com/news/new-jersey-candidate-smearing-poop-daycare#

I’ve only scratched the surface bob. On top of daily new scandals, I’ve now shown you 300 convictions for severe moral turpitude with thousands more to expose for you, but I do realize no number will convince you because you abandoned facts and reason a decade or more ago because of your racist hatred of Obama and now just make up nonsense in your head to excuse everything your people do, including child rape. 🤦‍♂️

276 Frederick Eugene Wall, Republican candidate for state senate in SC, is charged with child pornography and sexual exploitation of a minor. He threatened reporter who asked him about it. He denies he was charged, but he has the same name, age, and address.

277 Gary Schaffrick, State GOP Treasurer in CT - child endangerment that sounds a lot like sexual assault (Bathing nude with 5 yr old boy who he sits on his lap while both are naked, sharing a bed)

278 Elected @GOP state legislators who oppose changes to state statutes of limitation so that victims of sexual assault and exploitation will be able to come forward and get justice. They are on the side of rapists and child molesters

279 GOP Rep. Michael Capps of Wichita - child abuse of foster child, overturned on a technicality, party withdraws supports, asks him to withdraw but he won’t

280 Roy Bolden, Chair of the Providence GOP - first-degree and second-degree child molestation, and third-degree sexual assault.

281 Elliott Broidy, former RNC Finance Chair, mega-donor - sexual abuse

282 Iowa GOP staff Jim Friedrich cost Iowa taxpayers $2.2 million with his sexual harassment of women

283 Former GOP State Senator Shawn Hamerlinck, sexual harassment - cost taxpayers #2.2 million

284 Iowa state Sen. Merlin A Bartz - sexual harassment

285 Iowa GOP aide Ed Failor Jr - sexual harassment

286 Iowa GOP state Sen. Rick Bertrand - sexual harassment

287 Iowa State Sen Bill Anderson - inappropriate conduct, comments

288 Iowa State Sen Tim Kapucian - inappropriate comments/conduct

289 GOP NV Assembly candidate and LEGAL brothel owner Dennis Hof was under investigation for sexual assault, though his death 10/16/18 will probably end the investigation

290 ID state rep Mark Patterson - pled guilty to attempted rape, lied about it, also said his constituents aren’t interested in that.

291 Southern Baptist Seminary leader Paige Patterson pressured women to not report their rapes, told a woman it was good she was raped. He’s not the rapist, but he helped the rapist rape more women.

292 ME state house GOP candidate Mark Bedell - domestic violence

293 NH state Rep. Eric Schleien to resign amid allegations he sexually assaulted 16-year-old student.

294 ME GOP state house candidate Chris Hoy - violating a protective order, domestic violence, assault, pled guilty

295 GOP Voters - More Republican voters would vote for a candidate accused of sexual harassment than would not. They have embraced their role as the party of sexual abuse.

296 John Boswell, Republican donor-activist - sexual assault. Arrested twice, first time at Trump inauguration, paid a $50 fine.

297 OK Republican George Faught makes the list for claiming rape and incest are God’s will. Rape culture on steroids.

298 State Rep. Rob Brooks - R-WI - racist remarks and sexual harassment

299 US Rep Ralph Norman thinks sexual assault is a joke, cracking a joke about it during a debate

300 Former executive director of SC Republican Party Todd Kincannon - domestic violence. He may be mentally ill.

bobknight33 said:

Bridgeport Election Overturned After City Official Pleads 5th To Ballot Harvesting.
A Bridgeport, Connecticut judge ruled on Wednesday to overturn the city's Democratic primary election after video emerged of a woman who appears to be the city's vice chair of the Democratic Town Committee, Wanda Geter-Pataky, committing ballot fraud.

Those cheating Democrats.
Democrats can't win with out cheating.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bridgeport-election-overturned-after-city-official-pleads-5th-ballot-harvesting

Palestinian UN Ambassador At UN

newtboy says...

“ It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.”
No…it is at odds with your position and is not what I said.
It is factual history that fighting age European Jews came armed and forcibly displaced the natives after being offered sanctuary for their most needy. It is not factual that I claimed it was ever thus. That is clearly not what I said, I said for 10+- years they were getting along as refugees, then started coming in HUGE numbers illegally and taking over.

Those are facts.

I also mentioned a native Jewish population that were not refugees or invaders. Some of them supported the invading Zionists, some didn’t. I’ve never heard of one who opposed them.

“ You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.”

Not even close to true, I said many stood behind the Zionists when they started coming en masse, and didn’t say but seemingly few to none of the native Jews opposed them. I also was clear that at the beginning the refugees acted like refugees, not invaders….I mistakenly gave them more time being grateful than you say they were, according to you Palestinians position is they began the invasion in the 20’s….and theirs is the opinion I care about. I never claimed ALL Arabs were welcoming, but the “nation” as a whole (despite being not self ruling at the time) welcomed a huge number of refugees considering their own population. Way more than elsewhere.

Edit: Britain, who facilitated this invasion, only took in 80000 European Jews in the decade before and during the war, and they were only given transit visas to stay temporarily until they found other accommodations. All of England took in fewer Jewish refugees in all pre war history than Palestine did….England took in 80000, most on temporary visas, Palestine took in 60000 permanently in 1935 alone, and 130000 in 33-36.
Pre-immigration Palestine had about 700000 people. In 1944 European Jews ignored the 1500 visa limit per year and came by the hundred of thousands per year after already completely overwhelming the native population.
Palestine was forcibly invaded by a foreign population exponentially bigger than the native population while Britain kept them too weak to oppose it physically.
That’s an invasion…not on day 1. 🤦‍♂️

“ without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey ”

Again, I said day 3, not day 1, and went on to say that meant 10 years later. Get off your high horse and READ buddy.

I guess I’ll stop here. If you aren’t going to read what I wrote and insist on arguing red herrings you made up yourself, you can do that alone.

Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the fact that masses of armed violent invaders came to take the land from the natives by force and were successful. The exact date this happened is not only y highly subjective, it’s completely besides the point.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the inhuman treatment they’ve subjected the innocent native civilian population to for 70 years…but you’ve tried.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the intentional targeting of trapped civilians by the military….serious war crimes Israel commits daily.
Nothing you’ve said even hints that you consider Palestinians worthy of consideration themselves, possibly not even human status, definitely not peaceful existence.

Bye

Palestinian UN Ambassador At UN

newtboy says...

I count it as a hyper generous humanitarian gift given by Palestinians on day 1 that by day 3 (year 10+-) had become an invasion of hostile violent foreigners.

Because I don’t have a perfect solution for a problem no one could solve at the time does not in any way shape or form excuse the hostile invasion or fascist racist genocidal regimes since…
…but my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight, not run off and invade elsewhere. If they had the fighters to take Israel, they had the fighters to turn the war years earlier, but went for invasion and occupation instead.

So, you DO think the people of Haiti have the right to come to your doorstep and toss you in the street. I disagree. I reiterate, not being safe at home is no excuse to go elsewhere and make it’s inhabitants unsafe, especially if those inhabitants had nothing to do with you being unsafe, more so if they actually stuck their neck out to make some of your family safe.

I’ll try to unscramble that…”what would I have the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?”…the native Jews, nothing. They’re citizens. The refugees, refugee camps of a certain size and no over crowding. Once they’re full, go elsewhere. There were other places to go, although limited. The British had an obligation to support the Palestinians and prepare them to run the country, an obligation they completely shirked and instead facilitated the invasion of hostile foreigners while keeping the Palestinians defenseless.

Fuck you 6 million. They weren’t waiting for legal avenues for immigration. Those people for the most part had no option to be refugees or decide a thing, the Germans and Polish essentially woke up one day unable to travel. The people we are talking about had over a decade, and included Germans.

No, my POV relies on the theory that you having a bad time doesn’t give you a license to murder me and steal my stuff and subjugate my descendants horrifically.
Historically many groups have had tough scary times, many ending in actual genocide. Few took that as an opportunity to do the same to another group that was trying to help them out of the tough spot. Zionists did….and with Americans help. I’ll never stop pointing it out.
The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a genocide today. Do they have a right to go invade some weaker nation for their safety? No. That’s not reasonable or acceptable.

I think your POV relies on the theory that, because Jews were being increasingly persecuted in Europe that gives them the right to take a friendly nation by force and subjugate and persecute its people forever…



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