@CrushBug -- Very good arguments in favor of absorbing the cost, even IF hormone therapy / gender reassignment is paid for by the military / government.

@entr0py -- Links that I've read from conventional news outlets claim that hormone therapy and gender reassignment were covered by military healthcare IF a doctor signed off on them as being medically necessary. An article I read about Chelsea Manning specifically stated that the hormone therapy was definitely paid for by the military, but that it wasn't 100% clear who paid the bill for her gender reassignment. I can't find that exact article, but here's another one from 2015 that suggests the same things:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/12/chelsea-manning-hormone-therapy/23311813/

Another article I read said that Obama issued an order / proclamation / whatever that the military would pay for those things if they were deemed medically necessary, which was a change from the former system (not covered). Not sure when/if that went into effect, but I think it must have. I'll look and see if I can find a link to that one.

I'm not saying that my info is right and yours is wrong, but it seems unclear. They (gender reassignment and hormone therapy) definitely weren't covered for a long time, but it seems like the hormone therapy was for sure at least in Manning's case.

Again, just to my personal opinion, I think the old system of "welcome to serve but we ain't paying for that stuff" was fine (ideal?). CrushBug presents a good argument for the military absorbing those costs since they are such a tiny fraction of the military budget (even though trans soldiers are arguably also a tiny fraction of the total).

Strangely enough, I'd pretty happily agree to those services being covered (if deemed medically necessary) as part of single-payer universal health care available to ALL CITIZENS. That would still be paying for them with tax dollars, but not tax dollars earmarked for military, which seems better to me somehow.

And again, I think Trump is 100% in the wrong for barring trans people from service simply for being trans. I agree that he's really just trying to rile up his base and trigger their righteous indignation. But, I do still basically think that the military paying for those services (or viagra / hair transplants / botox / cosmetic stuff, etc.) out of their budget is wrong. Even if amounts to a drop in the ocean that is military spending.

I have no interest in defending Trump.

...Yeah, you smell it coming. BUT:

Budgetary concerns for telling trans people "thanks but no thanks" regarding desire to serve in the military might possibly be defensible and comparable to other conditions / states / whatever.

Manning was in jail (whether you think that deserved or not) and got ACLU assistance to be provided with hormone therapy and eventually gender reassignment surgery, because it was deemed psychologically damaging to withhold them. That's some pretty expensive treatment. Paid with tax dollars.

Perform a thought experiment and replace barring trans people from military service with some other group that would similarly require expensive medical maintenance. There's a pretty good example available: Type 1 Diabetes, requiring insulin. And guess what -- diabetics are barred from military service. If you develop diabetes while in the military it isn't grounds for discharge, but if you have it beforehand and want to join up you're SOL.

Back to trans. Do I personally think that they should be barred from service? No, not based purely on that. But if somebody feels that they need hormone replacement and/or gender reassignment surgery, I think they should be paying for that themselves, not on government / military dime.

I'll admit that I see those things not as necessary, but elective. Maybe that's unfair, but at what point does it become ridiculous? Can bald soldiers get hair transplants? Botox? Breast implants?

Trans people want to serve and either A) don't need hormone replacement / gender reassignment or B) are willing to pay out of pocket for them? Sign 'em up. Otherwise, it becomes murky. If that seems insensitive / bigoted, sorry. But plenty of things beyond your control can make you ineligible for military service.


**edit:
Oh, forgot to mention. Do I think Trump really had that sort of argument in mind when he made this decision? HELL NO. He's a spiteful prick. He probably did it for a combination of trying to curry favor with prick GOP congressclowns and just to prod.

Botox solutions must be one of the few homeopathic medicines that might actually have an effect.

*ban
Botox Edu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YFwUzMoNsA

Actually, this is a case of the new treatment called full head botox. She's breaking new ground people!

She looks like she just had her entire face botoxed.

I also have narcolepsy, but without the cataplexy, for which I am most grateful! I also had blephorospasms, which is when my eyes close unexpectedly, without the sleep. It was quite frightening, as it happened a number of times while I was driving. I saw a neurologist soon after these symptoms began, and it has been controlled quite well, with Botox injections around the outer edges of my eyes. This is very different from the Botox which is used on wrinkles. Within a month or so, those disappeared, although my eyelids are often heavy and I find it more comfortable to keep them closed, whenever possible. The narcolepsy is still with me: I take a medication called Provigil, when certainly helps. But I have a hard time making myself go to bed, when I begin feeling sleepy. I often fall asleep at my desk top computer with my head falling on the keyboard, leaving the strangest comments, which I enjoy posting, much to people's confusion. I have also often fallen out of my chair, and been rudely awakened by the sudden stop. Fortunately, I never been seriously hurt, and that hasn't happened for many months. I'm an older woman of 79, with osteoporosis, but I haven't broken anything in these unexpected naps, as I call them. The young woman in the video, who is a dancer and making a teaching video, it seems, is a much worse situation that I, for which I am grateful. I have here seen this site before, and I hope I'm not intruding...just thought folks might like to hear another perspective.

@1:40 - Weirdest expressionless, botox-faced scream ever.

Who's the queen of the bar-fight there with toad-boy? Wonder if Botox junkies get those pesky needle scars? Bono is such a fucking douchebag dickhead.

Afraid this one might once-again vanish....Too bad. The YT should enshrine as a testament this footage forever of the dangers of repeated audits combined with Botox and Dilaudid enemas.

I'm just thrilled that Ford isn't getting botoxed into obilivion, @MichaelL.

I think we have lost something in our culture -- what it looks like to grow older. Our media images have all been scrubbed of true humanity, with all the plastic surgery -- including on the young. All searching for some plasticized ideal of attractiveness.

As Gloria Steinem once said, when told she looked good for 60 -- this is what 60 looks like. Well, that is what an aging Ford looks like.

[edit]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/22/how-does-a-feminist-valid-marlo-thomas-mondays-with-marlo_n_2743090.html

And who really looks better? Marlo clearly has had her lower face pumped full of something -- and there is Gloria looking real.

Love Community very much.

Britta's gotten some serious Botox in the past couple of years. That forehead crease has magically vanished.

Thanks for voicing my exact sentiments and sharing some of your experiences.

I know concerned parents such as ourselves are probably more likely to have well-adjusted kids, but I still wish there could be some way to really shield their brains from being deformed by all the poison that surrounds them.

In reply to this comment by spoco2:
>> ^lucky760:
I worry often and a lot about how I can possibly keep my sons from being perverted by this society.


Ditto. I think back to me growing up and the sort of soft introduction to adult material. First you'd see topless women in National Geographics, then maybe some 'lad's mags' in the store, nothing naked, just bikini stuff... then you might get hold of a Playboy and see naked women. And back then they were pretty much natural women too (sure, not 'average', but at least not silicon and botox plumped versions).

Then you might get to see some actual porn mags at your 'rough' friend's place...

These days: "Go on web, look up sex in google image search and get inundated with hard, filthy sex"

Yeah, quite concerned. Doing our best to shield our kids from it as much as possible. Plenty of talk about what sex is (we have 3 boys and a girl all under 9), and that side of things (my wife is a midwife, so it kind of comes up a lot), but shielding as much as possible from not just sex on the internet, but also what passes for mainstream music videos these days (I mean, fucking Katy Perry... FUCK).

I'm with you lucky. I have no problem with sex... no problem with masturbation, no problem with porn in and of itself (just what 90% of it has become)... but how engrained it's become and how central and how much it's pushing into the lives of younger and younger kids.

Yeah, it's not good :

>> ^lucky760:
I worry often and a lot about how I can possibly keep my sons from being perverted by this society.


Ditto. I think back to me growing up and the sort of soft introduction to adult material. First you'd see topless women in National Geographics, then maybe some 'lad's mags' in the store, nothing naked, just bikini stuff... then you might get hold of a Playboy and see naked women. And back then they were pretty much natural women too (sure, not 'average', but at least not silicon and botox plumped versions).

Then you might get to see some actual porn mags at your 'rough' friend's place...

These days: "Go on web, look up sex in google image search and get inundated with hard, filthy sex"

Yeah, quite concerned. Doing our best to shield our kids from it as much as possible. Plenty of talk about what sex is (we have 3 boys and a girl all under 9), and that side of things (my wife is a midwife, so it kind of comes up a lot), but shielding as much as possible from not just sex on the internet, but also what passes for mainstream music videos these days (I mean, fucking Katy Perry... FUCK).

I'm with you lucky. I have no problem with sex... no problem with masturbation, no problem with porn in and of itself (just what 90% of it has become)... but how engrained it's become and how central and how much it's pushing into the lives of younger and younger kids.

Yeah, it's not good

Dale Winton is such a gem, but fuuuuuuuuck me, his botox is some of the worst self-harm I've ever seen