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World War Two Movie Making Gone Wrong

ChaosEngine says...

You mean typical ROAD biker.

My experience has been that mountain bikers (who generally view being on the road as a necessary evil to get to a trail) are careful and courteous.

The lycra brigade, OTOH, all think they're in the fucking tour de france and feel the need to practice riding in a peloton. What especially annoys me is when there is a cycle lane and these idiots ride on the outside marker so that half their body is in traffic.

Darkhand said:

Typical biker not obeying any rules

Nothing new to see here

World War Two Movie Making Gone Wrong

Biker Crashes On Roundabout

Sagemind says...

And he wasn't speeding or goofin' off.
Oil on the road is a very real danger to bikers, which is also why a cyclist should never ride down the centre of a lane -- that's where the grease strip is.

Biker Gang Protects Abused Children

Stormsinger says...

Sagemind is more tactful than I. I spent most of my teens and twenties around bikers, and I've never found any other group more honorable and self-controlled. Quite a few individuals can reach those goals, but not many groups.

If you insist on painting people you don't know with broad strokes, I'll happily stand up for bikers as a group.

Fausticle said:

I fucking hate bikers. I grew up around them. They create more abused children then help them.

Biker Gang Protects Abused Children

ChaosEngine says...

Did they actually include a not-so-subtle threat at the end there?

Ordinarily, I'd probably say something about due process, etc, but fuck it... bikers beating up child abusers? I suddenly find I have no problem with that.

Biker Gang Protects Abused Children

186 mph motorcycle gets passed by a station wagon (Audi)

SFOGuy says...

Human reflex response arc is like, what, 100 millisecs? So 1/10 second, so 27.2 feet before you even have a chance of a reflex intervening. And the reality is the you need at least a couple of seconds to actually process visual information and make a decision. Agree---the biker is insane.

186 mph motorcycle gets passed by a station wagon (Audi)

Hollywood Stuntz Biker Gang NY ROAD RAGE (FULL VIDEO): Biker

chingalera says...

Why dint the SUV guy simply start going super-slow on that long straight-a-way, call fucking 911 or the Highway Patrol and just keep moving?

Another scenario, one that's a bit more risky: He could have, when the first biker started clocking him, simply swerved slowly from right to left across all three lanes impeding the safe passage of Team Asshat.

Again, in the city, when they close in on him...swerve, swerve, swerve...Those dicks would have bailed long before they stopped him, unless they have the dipshit death wish, against which there be no reasonable defense except the 'hulk smash.'

Oh, let there be a gunshot?? Bikes fall-out like icecycles!

"We were in grave danger" - More Details of Cycle Swarm

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

CreamK says...

"Stunt" bikers or "bombers" are the worst bunch on two wheels. They are generally jus scared babies going to extreme douchiness when in a group. I'll take 1% any day instead of crouch rocket hooligans.

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

LiquidDrift says...

What probably happened was the rover driver unintentionally did something that the bikers perceived as a threat or a slight and then the shit hit the fan.

Personally I don't know I would have had the fortitude to drive over a bunch of bikers to get out of there, but I like to think I would.

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

shatterdrose says...

Found the video on another site since YouTube no longer has it. http://www.radiolive.co.nz/VIDEO-Bikers-chase-Range-Rover-through-New-York-City/tabid/673/articleID/38178/Default.aspx

After watching it, I must say, if I was the RR driver, a lot more bikers would be dead. The bikers got off easy from the looks of it. The RR could have swerved into them while they were riding up past him, could have aimed for them etc. Hell, if it had been me, the first guy that came and tried to open the door up wouldn't be alive anymore. And neither would the guy busting open my window.

But hey, that's just the way I'd react to a gang of bikers purposely harassing myself and my kid.

Then again, as a cyclist, I just call the cops and file a report when someone driver slights me purposely. And as many have said, we don't know what happened before the segment posted, but I would wager a fair bit of money that the most the RR would have done was yell at them or honk, or in the midst of a sudden onrush of motorcycles while trying to change lanes freaked out and didn't know what to do.

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

newtboy says...

"I think he might well have started subtly fucking with a small group of bikers that was actually much larger and more aggressive than he anticipated."
Again, I called what you said "speculation" that he "might have done "X
I certainly can understand and see two sides of most arguments, but I can also see when one side is utter BS based on known facts. There is only one side here, no matter what names the family might have called the bikers, there's no excuse for their behavior in the least, and no "reason" for them to attack.
I ignore the core argument of your post because it makes no sense. you seem to conflagrate understanding their behavior and excusing it. I understand why these babies had a tantrum, I don't agree that's it's acceptable, not even in kindergarten.
You seem to misunderstand my position, it's not that I can't understand the gang of fags, it's that I disagree with their self centered, infantile, 'it's all about me' mindset that lets them get pissed off when someone doesn't allow them to take over public places for their dangerous activity.
People who are not in gangs do NOT have the capacity to act like this. Gangs are fundamentally different creatures from individuals.
I agree, if you asked one of the bikers about you and I, they would undoubtedly side with you, because you SEEM to be excusing and explaining their behavior (even though you continue to say you aren't) by saying it's completely understandable and anyone could be pushed to that level of action, and I'm calling that BS excusing, that's what it sounds like to me and others.
In this case you shared a level of one sided speculation in an attempt to 'explain' why the bikers went ape shit crazy on a family. Attempting to explain how it's justified to them is asinine, you need to explain to them how it's not at all justified. No sane perspective excuses them.
Your words lend themselves to twisting when you continue to argue that they 'might' have a legitimate reason (if only in their own tiny minds) then get upset when someone corrects you that you and they are 100% wrong, and they did not have a legitimate reason. Monkeys 'MIGHT" fly out of my butt to do my bidding, should I get angry with you when you say they won't?
When my high school debate adversary makes ridiculous propositions completely based in supposition and having no base in fact whatsoever, I use it against them. If they want to call their lack of ability to get a point across and have it agreed with 'straw man', they may, it won't win the debate for them.
I disagree with your position that they might have had a 'reason' to go nuts and attack...legitimate or not. If you're adult enough to own and ride a bike, you should be adult enough to ignore someone making a face at you or mouthing something nasty...if that even happened....and no one besides the attackers (and their supporters) are even making that claim (probably because it is not a legitimate reason or excuse). Grow up fags.
it is about good/bad, right/wrong...not just "why/how" for 99% of people.
It is also about fags and the bike curious this time.
You are 100% wrong about justification, it's not a personal thing, it's a simple law thing. What's justified and what's not has been argued by professionals and determined to the millimeter. You seem to be arguing that you can understand how it's justified (to the bikers) to surround and attack a family with a 2 year old...and your stated justification is 'he mouthed off to them'...and that's not a justification for 99.99% of people, and certainly not a legal justification. I understand it may be a reason why idiots without any self control lost their shit, I can only hope they think differently every time they visit their now paralyzed cohort and grow the F up.
I think ethics and morals are things society has agreed upon (for the most part) and are not things you can get away with making up for yourself, unless you live like a hermit with no human contact at all, or don't mind spending your life in solitary (again, like a hermit).

Chairman_woo said:

How am I supposed to continue to interact intelligently when you keep twisting my words to imply things I have repeatedly stated I was not saying?

I deliberately chose my words to make it clear that I was not saying the driver MUST have done anything but only that he MIGHT. Simple reading comprehension; trying to twist my words for emotive effect is not going to work on me. (apart from getting a rise which it totally did)

You only seem willing to entertain a single perspective assessment of the situation and appear completely closed off to any other interpretation/speculation I have attempted to present.

The fact you have repeatedly ignored the core argument I have been making (that there is no such thing as one perspective and morality is a relativistic concept) suggests that either A you don't understand what I'm trying to say (in which case I'm happy to explain further) or B. don't want to understand (in which case I can't do shit for you sorry)

Let me put it another way. Do you think we understand Hitler and the Nazi's better by A. calling them racist fags and blindly denouncing their actions as "evil". or B. attempting to understand the mindset and motivations for what they did with a minimum of emotional compromise?

When you take the care to examine life's little unpleasantries like Nazi's or bike gangs or whatever from a less emotive position, you realise that they were/are not just some abhorrent alien force in society. Any one of us has the same capacity to behave like this, they aren't fundamentally different creatures and the belief that they are is exactly what allows people to justify doing this kind of thing in the 1st place. (If you asked one of the bike gangers to describe you and I you'd likely find they used the same kind of derogatory and dehumanising terms and categories, we're just slipping into the reciprocal tribal mindset)

Do I think bike gangs (and for that matter large groups of people in general) generally represent humanity at its worst? Yes totally, they are to my sensibilities 1st class arseholes. That's why I've agreed with you repeatedly on this (from post 1 onwards in fact!) I just like to come at things from more than one perspective because ultimately perspective is all that really exists to us, in this case I shared some measure of perspective with the bikers as I can see how thing thing could have escalated from that POV and how they might well have justified their actions to themselves.

Ethics/morals are little more than deep aesthetic preferences, they have no observable basis of authority in the natural world, only our own minds. While it's an illusion were arguably better off with, it does rather get in the way of objectivity.

All I really take exception to is having my words and meaning distorted and my core argument ignored. It's called a straw-man (reciting a deliberately distorted and weak version of your opponents argument to then tear it down) that shit wouldn't even fly in a high-school debating club and it certainly wont work with me here. Its fine that you disagree but at least get what your disagreeing with right please.

It's not about "good and "bad" "right" and "wrong" but rather "why" and "how". In short it's more complicated than "bike curious fags" and reducing matters only to that does nothing to help the situation other than to illustrate ones deep aesthetic distaste (which in itself is totally valid and I've not contradicted at any stage). I have somewhat more split "deeply held aesthetic preferences" here which is what I originality began talking about, perhaps that's why I'm finding it easier to at least relate to the bikers side of things even if I don't agree or condone.

"....and also disagree that anything excuses...."

^ This phrase beautifully demonstrates the folly of rigid non-perspective based morality. By embracing any arbitrary absolute truth or principle such as this one renders objectivity and transcendence impossible. Justification is a personal thing, what I'm interested in is provocation and explanation, we can argue what's justified until the cows come home because its not an objective concept it's a subjective preference.

This, when all semantics are stripped away is the core of why we are disagreeing I think. You think Ethics/morals are actual things that matter in their own right, I think they are no more than strong preferences who's usefulness is directly proportional to ones ability to understand and sympathise with those of others. Everything else has really been a play around that (by both of us) in less direct terms I fear....



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