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Higher minimum wage, or guaranteed minimum income?

radx says...

At some point, yes. But for the time being, increases in productivity (automation) are less of a job killer than your everyday policies and ideologies.

Speaking of my own country, the amount of work not being done is enormous, and the aggregate of work not having been done over the last decades is absolutely staggering. The current economic system not only unloaded a great number of burdens onto society, it also never found a way to come up with a way to integrate the aforementioned work. No one is willing to pay for it, so it doesn't get done, period. The most prominent examples would be infrastructure works of all kinds (energy, most of all), ecological restauration and care for the elderly. Our national railroad alone could hire 100,000 people and still be understaffed.

You can have full employment next year, but not if you expect the private sector to provide the jobs within the current system. The public sector could create them, if you use a sovereign, free-floating currency, but ideology doesn't allow for it.

As long as we focus on finding people for a given job, there'll be mass unemployment, no matter what. Reverse the process, create/find jobs for a given people and we might make some headway.

Again, ideology doesn't allow for it. And that's also what made me stop advocating for an unconditional basic income (UBI). The financial details of it can be a nightmare, yes, and it would be a break with a social welfare system that survived two world wars. But the deal breaker for me was politics.

A UBI would mean taking the boot of the peasants' necks. Liberty and (some) equality made real. Love it.
But look at how vicious the Greeks are attacked these days, not just by the elite, but by our fellow worker bees. They're not just burying the last bit of European solidarity in Greece, they're unloading all their frustrations onto the schmucks who had very little to begin with. It's despicable. And it indicates to me that any attempt to introduce a system that would take from people the need to work would unleash unimaginable hatred from the usual suspects. And significant portions of the public would go along with it, given how easy it already is to channel their frustrations towards "welfare queens" and "moochers".

So yeah, a UBI would be lovely. Finally some liberty, finally more negotiating power for the worker (can decline any job offer without repression). But the shit would need to hit the fan hard before there can be any room within the political sphere for it.

Stormsinger said:

Given the increasing capabilities of automation, it seems quite obvious that full employment will never again be seen. Given that, a guaranteed basic income is the only way to stave off a violent revolution by those who have been abandoned by the system.

Higher minimum wage, or guaranteed minimum income?

Stormsinger says...

Given the increasing capabilities of automation, it seems quite obvious that full employment will never again be seen. Given that, a guaranteed basic income is the only way to stave off a violent revolution by those who have been abandoned by the system. Because they're not likely to just lay down and die simply because they can't do a job as economically as a machine can.

So I'm not sure that calling a guaranteed basic income "unrealistic" is accurate.

lv_hunter (Member Profile)

automated orange and kiwi peeling machine

newtboy says...

Yeah, but it's harder than that sounds, especially when you're talking about doing that over 1000 times.
I do have a knifey/spooney that helps with the job (a Kiwi invention I think) automation would still be worth investigating...especially if it works on apples too, I have 30 trees!

Fairbs said:

Don't you just cut it in half and scoop out the guts?

Where are the aliens? KurzGesagt

shinyblurry says...

We are a known quantity on many interstellar maps if the evolutionary paradigm is true. It wouldn't take that long for a sufficiently advanced civilization to locate every planet that has life on it, especially if they could use inter-dimensional travel. They could automate everything using robotics, or by some other means unknown to us. Perhaps they could even instantly colonize those planets using sentient robots.

The point is that we are a resource to be exploited and after an estimated 15 billion years of the Universe existing, according to the secular narrative, there should be many civilizations out there capable of doing just that. That we haven't been contacted or seen any activity at all is more than curious; it is dramatic evidence that we are in fact alone in the cosmos.

shagen454 said:

That assumes that we understand the nature of the Universe to an advanced degree enough to determine through our imagination

Kitten Condos

poolcleaner says...

They likely had a litter from their lone house cat. That's happened to me on several occasions. Enjoy them as cute little menaces to society and then sell/give them away. Better to spay and neuter cats, but sometimes you get a cat that's already pregnant or it happens before you had a chance to.

From personal experience, a household with ~10 cats is manageable but that is where it gets hard (and I don't recommend it). Invest in a couple decent automated litter boxes, feeding set up so the cats don't crowd over one or two bowls. 4 is not bad. Makes for a fun little animal family. Hilarity always ensues. 1 is lonely, 2 is a rivalry, 3 is a crowd, but 4 is a silly family of prankster cats.

But then there is the mother who is off camera, so that's 5 cats. That's fun. Sibling cats who grow up around their mother become very caring and mature better. I had a scenario where my male and female kittens had kittens. It was so cool studying their family structure. Seeing the attachments the kittens have to the mother and father, and allowing it to grow to fruition is a joy to see, even if it's not always possible to keep the fam together every time.

Animal family units are awesome and I almost feel like every human family should have a protectorate animal family that is their duty to protect and nurture. If you can raise an entire animal family, you can do anything. Human families are narcissistic barbie playsets for most people, so this is less disturbing to me than a family with 4 children.

eric3579 said:

Cute,but that sure seems like a lot of cats for one household.

Bosch self-drive car demo

Stephen Hawking sings Monty Python's Galaxy Song

poolcleaner says...

I don't think there are many subjects or constructs of civilization that I care about beyond the topics of this video. Science is such a great excuse to make comedy and comedy is such a great excuse to crossdress, or sing. Oh, the Pythons. You help me automate.

Bosch self-drive car demo

yellowc says...

Did a few of miss the part where you can select the parts that are automated and manual?

You're asking for situations where you can choose and the video shows that almost as the first feature. It's there people

Personally for me, it makes sense to have it be 100% automated by default, place your hands on those bits for 3seconds to enter manual. Release both hands, reverts back to automatic.

The 3 seconds is more of a human thing, I'm sure the the car never actually stops any of its automatic calculations, it simply turns on/off if you can control steering and acceleration.

Presto, enjoy driving however you want and not driving whenever you want.

I'm still a firm of advocate of 100% forced automation, sorry, humans are just far too incapable to be driving death machines. I'm sorry if you enjoy it, we'll just create little "driving vacation spots" and we can all move on? After all, you're probably not getting nostalgic about your commutes to work.

But it'll take a while yet for the automation to be able to handle 100% of driving. In the mean time, this sort of dual mode looks pretty great to me.

Bosch self-drive car demo

Bosch self-drive car demo

lucky760 says...

I don't know how common knowledge this is, but that's actually not future technology; it's already available now. For example, the Mercedes S550 (2014 and newer) performs fully-automated driving like that:


dag said:

Quote hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I for one would be happy with just the long motorway segments being automated.

Bosch self-drive car demo

dag says...

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Come on, nobody's going to be working - they'll be playing holographic Candy Crush. Also, I for one would be happy with just the long motorway segments being automated.

ChaosEngine said:

Great, so now I'm expected to work on my commute? Screw that.

Plus, as soon as any portion of the drive is manual, it may as well all be.

aaronhoo (Member Profile)

lucky760 says...

Sorry you were mistakenly automatically flagged as a spammer by the system. Your account has been restored. (We have lots of automated anti-spammer measures in place that are sometimes too over-zealous.)

Welcome to VideoSift!

Tomorrowland - A World Beyond - Trailer 2

00Scud00 says...

I could make good use of a force blasting door mat like that, door to door salesmen, bill collectors, Jehovah's Witnesses, the paperboy who never reaches the doorstep. Oh wait, he never reaches the doorstep, I'd like to order an automated deathray too.

EuroAviationSpotter (Member Profile)



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