*obligatory thanking of you for your service* It doesn't matter that you've served twice! You think the best way to curb illegal immigration is not amnesty or guest worker programs, but driving them to the INS building and laughing as they scatter! Vote no on MG for President!

Also, he uses toilet paper completely wrong. Vote NO!

>> ^MarineGunrock:
I've been deployed overseas. Twice. I win.

Wow this is a really fired up crowd. MG, I was referring to the waivers for criminal offenses. That is the Army, sorry my mistake. They currently have more wavered recruits than not. Without a draft that will happen. I thank you for serving, if you got hurt permantly I am very sorry (really). Like I said in the email to you, I sterotyped you and I am sorry. I only have a problem with Paul Stephens comments. That is my opinion and it will not get him fired or reprimanded in any way. A petition cannot do anything, so those people are wasting their time. He did not violate any in place policy and animal cruelty laws don't cover this situation. As long as he does not pop off to his chain of commmand, he is good at work. I personally think he is a jerk but I don't think he needs death threats. It is a tough emotional situation. Just because someone would do anything for their dog or other animal does not make them a human hating serial killer. People as a whole are terrible to each other. Just look at the world today. The wonderful thing about living in the US is the freedom to do what we are doing now without being killed or thrown in prision for it.

Ok westy, I'll give you a serve too if you like... it's just it's so... so... hard to actually read your damn posts!

Look, rationality is a great trait, it helps with being able to sort out all sorts of things, being rational should be brought into play in many areas where it isn't.

BUT

If you live your life SOLELY rationally, and never give in to ANYTHING else, then you're going to be one miserable sonofabitch.

Music... you don't have to rationalize anything to enjoy music, and you can sometimes really enjoy music you know to be 'bad', but you don't care because it makes you feel good and sublime. If you were being purely rational you could talk your way out of enjoying it.

Dramatic arts... Watching a movie, play, whatever... you KNOW it's all not real, you KNOW it's 'fake', but if you allow yourself the privilege of suspension of disbelief then you can enjoy in feeling real emotions based on people's performances. It can be truly wonderful.

Nature... you can look at a beautiful forest or waterfall or animal and think rationally about how it came to be, or you can just feel wonderful that such things exist in this world, and that they can bring you such joy just by seeing them.

Sport... While you can rationalize that you have nothing to really link you to the people over there in Beijing competing for the same country you live in, being able to link yourself with them, to think of them as your team... allows you to get caught up in the moment, allows you to feel a thrill when they win (especially from behind), and it can make you feel great.

I guess the secret to life is knowing when to be rational and when to just allow yourself to enjoy a moment, and quite frankly, I think the Olympics should be some of those moments, just once every four years, where we get to enjoy these feelings without blowhards trying to suggest we're all being mentally challenged for doing so.

I put to you that we are actually running at a higher level as we have worked out one of the things to make life that much more enjoyable, and I welcome you to the insight once you've had enough of being a grumpy pain in the bum towards everyone.

That's entirely too much anger for my liking.

Plus it means that SHE is going to a Starbucks, which, you know, serve shithouse coffee.

Which is why I'm happy they closed 60 of their 80 something stores in Australia... Hurray! We have far too many GOOD coffee places in Melbourne for anyone to have an excuse to go to one of these dens of burnt, syrup enhanced swill.

In reply to this comment by swampgirl:
Thanks for that MGR. I hope all of you that serve receive the thanks you deserve.


In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
*happy

Thanks for that MGR. I hope all of you that serve receive the thanks you deserve.


In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
*happy

The dance off is on... just nobody say, you got served

http://www.videosift.com/video/Moonwalking-Bird

Fantastic. You get served.

"Oh, and Danny, I don't care how disciplined I/you/they are. I'll/you'll/they'll be staring at an attractive naked woman in the shower."

Bull. I hope some MORE (thanks Skeeve) serving military members speak up about the professionalism issue and show that what you're saying is just plain wrong. You think everyone is incapable of controlling theirselves not to stare at people of their sexual preference in the shower? That's even more bigoted than your homophobia - if i enjoy eating "Marmite", and you don't, are you going to tell me that i'm obviously wrong and DON'T enjoy it too?

@Lurch - i think that, assuming openly homosexual men would get beaten for being homosexual, then this is an issue of professionalism and discipline wherever you are serving. I've never been in the military, so i'm not gonna say "this is how it should be", because everyone knows what should be and what is are often far apart. However i do know 1 gay dude in the military and when asked about it he just says that it's never been a problem. This is the British army, and i don't proclaim that all gays in the British army have an easy ride either. All i'm saying is, it's possible for people to be bonded and taught in such a way that they don't beat a guy up for being gay.

It's not like he runs around in a tutu and carries his gun with a limp wrist, is it? Or his uniform has a rainbow flag on the arm. No one bothers pushing him on the issue, and just like someone who practised, say BDSM, he doesn't consider himself special or different, and he doesn't march around going "HELLO I'M GAY!!!" (or hello i like BDSM). He's just a guy among guys.

And he doesn't stare at people in the shower. If that's ok with MarinegunRock.

my comment (1) 5 years ago the leader of the Mormon Church listed the 3 greatest threats to their church: feminism, homosexuality, and science.

grimm wrote
I'd like to see that quote. I wouldn't be surprised if they said something like that about homosexuality. Maybe feminism if it's a quote from 30-40 years ago...I'd be surprised if they said something like that as recent as 5 years ago. The thing about science doesn't sound right either. Mormons believe in the Bible but also believe that there is no such thing as an existing Bible that is 100% word for word of the original writings. So they don't really sweat the details much when science disagrees with it like other religions do.

gorgon wrote
Site a source, you'll find it's been taken out of context.

__________________________________________________

Upon further research my title should state
less than 15 years ago a leader of the Mormon Church listed the 3 greatest threats to their church: feminism, homosexuality, and the so called scholars or intellectuals.

please understand he came to his views based on scripture.

Boyd K. Packer, Apostle of the LDS Church and (at the time was) 3rd in line in succession to the Prophet.

Surely you have been anxiously watching the worldwide evaporation of values and standards from politics, government, society, entertainment, schools. Could you be serving in the Church without having turned to those pages in the revelations and to those statements of the prophets that speak of the last days? Could you, in working for the Church, not be conscious of or have ignored the warnings? Could you be blind to the drift that is taking place? Are you not conscious of the drift that is taking place in the Church? Could you believe other than it is critical that all of us work together and set aside personal interests and all face the same way?

It is so easy to be turned about without realizing that it has happened to us. There are three areas where members of the Church, influenced by social and political unrest, are being caught up and led away. I chose these three because they have made major invasions into the membership of the Church. In each, the temptation is for us to turn about and face the wrong way, and it is hard to resist, for doing it seems so reasonable and right.

The dangers I speak of come from the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement, and the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals. Our local leaders must deal with all three of them with ever-increasing frequency. In each case, the members who are hurting have the conviction that the Church somehow is doing something wrong to members or that the Church is not doing enough for them.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/priesthood/prophets/packer_coordinating.html

also visit http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_boydkpacker.html

please read the many posts attributted to this man and you will see that my quote was not taken out of context.

___________________________________________________

So again, I phrased my assertion incorrectly (thanks for keeping me honest, seriously)

It should not have been 5 years, as it was actually 1993. I will point out the thrust of the arguement was correct. That according to one of the leaders of the mormon church feminism, homosexuality, and intellectuals(science), were the 3 greatest threats to their church and that this was not taken out of context. This should not come as a surprise as those things do not harmonize with their religious doctrine (depending on who's doing the reading)
Same Gender Attraction
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/same_gender_attraction.html
Feminism
http://www.lightplanet.com/family/mothers/feminism.html

Oh no, here- this is me: Philosopher

I do tend to go on at length when I'm annoyed. I was particularly proud of this one:
Oh sure, try to dismiss human-computer equivalence on my block... and watch as you get SERVED!

Although, I usually write on people's profile pages.

I barley got 10 comments down and chose to skip here. Granted I'm a new sifter, but sometimes i think you guys argue for the sake of argument. I saw one comment from MINK about how it is illegal according to certain things. the constitution. Have you read it? Has anybody here? I might have missed it granted, and if you can show me where ill back down, but i didn't see anything in there about what makes an occupation illegal. Geneva? this deals with POWs. Not entrance and occupation regulations. Nuremberg? well this one i am honestly unfamiliar with, but after a quick Google, i found this:

The Nuremberg Trials are a series of trials most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military and economic leadership of Nazi Germany.

I fail to see how that applies. At any rate, there is specific documentation, which clearly states that we will go where we are needed to free others of tyranny and oppression. If you must know where, i can find it for you. Its nearing midnight, so i don't want to be up to much longer.

At any rate, thought this might be good to toss in. http://www.army.mil/CMH/faq/oaths.htm

Its the enlisted and officer oaths of enlistment. MINK, I know I singled you out, but your comment stood out to me. But for everyone, I know MG and myself know the military, and if anyone else in here does they can say what they will, but please don't talk like you know what we are or aren't allowed to do, unless you've served or are serving.

BTW mink in regards to you last post, that very specifically talks about country governments, whereas Al-Q is not a government, there fore we cannot declare "war" on them. Second, Doc_M, your kinda right with the wrong words. Consciouses objector only means you don't believe the war is right, and that you do not have to operate a weapon. you can still go and fuel trucks. The whole losing citizenship and all that, no. Yeah if you back out of a war by just saying "no dude, fuck that" your going to get what we affectionately call "the big green weenie." yeah you'll get a DD and all that but the U.S. isn't going to exile you.

My last big gripe is people saying bush this bush that. PEOPLE! BUSH did not send us to 'war'. YOUR CONGRESS did. Thats right, the people you voted for to take your place sent you. your state reps and senators. BUSH cannot declare war. CONGRESS can declare war. And no one ever said anything about this being illegal when it kicked off. if i remember right, everyone was pro war.

I whole heartedly agree with MarineGunRock in that this waste of a uniform KNEW that war was going on, and whats worse, he was in an infantry unit! IF he wanted to avoid going, he should have joined the band. You cannot in all decent common sense look at the army THE FUCKING ARMY and say to yourself, hey, i don't want to go to war, but that shit looks like fun! and expect not to go. He might have wanted to change his mind afterwards, i got it, but like Lurch said, there was a legal way to do it, and the illegal way.

last thing i promise.... These one or two soldier protesters here and there might be bitching and "thats why we need to pull out. look how bad it is when our soldiers say no" but in all truth for every 1 service member that is publicly protesting, there are 2 or 3 reenlisting in IRAQ. And on top of that think of all the THOUSANDS of other guys that never said shit about having to go. The opinion of the couple of douche bags here and there is not going to sway the opinion of the governing bodies of our military forces.

P.S. ALLLLL the above is what makes our Country so Damn great. All of us (service members included) can bitch and argue all we want about public policy, war, religion etc. Thank a Vet. Thank you MG)

This is total horse poop.

OH SNAP! YOU GOT SERVED!!

Out of curiosity, can you, marr, or any other true believers in the bible as the word of your god explain the true meaning of metaphors like those I've pasted below? I'm sincerely curious how you address such passages and not making an argument one way or the other. They talk about slavery and murder, and I just really can't imagine the goodness this god had in mind for the humans he is supposed to love so much. There's really so much murder and hatred preached in the bible I find it not surprising how strongly "peaceful" and "loving" followers call for the murder of innocent people. (I know a devout Christian or two who often express their desire for the entire Middle East to be nuked to hell.) It seems Shirley Phelps (who protests at funerals) really seems to be following this god's word to the letter.

Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT - Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13 NAB - If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Leviticus 20:10 NLT - If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT - Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT - However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

Exodus 21:2-6 NLT - If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

Exodus 21:7-11 NLT - When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

Exodus 21:20-21 NAB - When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

This is such a great show. Are You Being Served Again was funny as well. Come on folks...this one deserves to get published.