>> ^quantumushroom:
No dogma can compete with the 'freedom' and flexibility of no moral code/making sh;t up as one goes along.

Seriously. My atheist buddy is always getting on my back about owning slaves. I already told him it's cool cuz they respect me as a Christian. I don't need his made up morality - I got the Bible!

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

I think I can fill out most of the list:

#1. The House Sergeant at Arms (left), and I think he's accompanied by the Senate Sergeant at Arms.
#2. Special guests
#3. From left to right, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL), Senator Chuck Shumer (D-NY), and in front of them looks like Supreme Court Justice Sam Alito.
#4. From left to right, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitner, and HRC herself (Secretary of State).
#5. In the middle is Congressman Charlie Rangel (D-NY), I'm guessing he's with other House Representatives from NY.
#6. Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) currently also Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee (kinda important atm)
#7. From left to right, House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA), and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH). These two are the current Republican House leadership.
#8. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV).
#9. Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH), who had a brief flirtation with being Obama's Commerce Secretary.
#10. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY). He's the current Republican Senate leadership.
#11. Earl Devaney, the new Inspector General Obama was talking about seconds before (who helped bust Jack Abramaoff)
#12. Not sure who the guy picking at his ear is, but the other two are Housing and Urban Development Secretary (HUD) Shaun Donovan, and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis.
#13. Juggs magazine. Or the text of the speech he's listening to. Oh, and it's Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL), who's the ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Committee (and former chair).
#14. The infamous Joe Lieberman (I-CT), former Democrat who campaigned for John McCain.
#15. Senator Arlen Spector (R-PA), one of the 3 Republicans to vote for the Stimulus bill.
#16. Senators Evan Bayh (D-IN), and Roland Burris (D-IL) the latter of Blagojevich fame.
#17. Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) in the middle, not sure of anyone else. He's the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
#18. I'm forgetting his name, but he's a House Republican, and most likely so is the woman next to him.
#19. Peter Orszag, new Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), formerly Director of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel is to his left.
#20. Chuck Shumer again.
#21. Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA) Eric Shinseki
#22. Not sure, I think he's a House Republican.
#23. Energy Secretary Steven Chu.
#24. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
#25. Don't know.
#26. Don't know. I'll wager a guess it's a House Democrat though.
#27. Senator Carl Levin (D-MI)
#28. Don't know.
#29. Senator Dick Lugar (R-IN)
#30. Don't recognize him, but he must be an Obama cabinet member, since that's who he's sitting amongst.
#31. Evan Bayh (D-IN) again.
#32. On the left is Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL), not sure who's next to him.
#33. Don't know.
#34. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), buddy of John McCain.
#35. From left to right, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, Defense Secretary Bob Gates, Treasury Secretary Tim Geitner, and Hillary something or other.
#36. I only know the one on the left, Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but those are the *cough* Joint Chiefs of Staff; the heads of the Navy, Army, Air Force, and Marines (in that order unless I've misidentified the uniforms).
#37. No clue, but it's likely they're part of the JCS organization.
#38. Dunno, but he's sure to be on this list somewhere. To his left is Ted Strickland, Governor of Ohio (D).
#39. Don't know. I think that's the Republican House section, though.
#40. Don't know.
#41. Captain Sully Sullenberger. Pilot of this plane.
#42. Mayor Bob Dixon, from Greensburg, Kansas; the city Obama's talking about.

Phew.

DEMOCROOKS

$34,000: the amount of federal taxes that Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner (D) failed to pay during his employment at the International Monetary Fund despite receiving extra compensation and explanatory brochures that described his tax liabilities.

$75,000: the amount of money that the head of the powerful tax-writing committee, Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY), was forced to report on his taxes after the discovery that he had not reported income from a Costa Rican rental property. His excuses for the failure started with blaming his wife, then his accountant and finally the fact that he didn't speak Spanish.

$93,000: the amount of petty cash each Congressional representative voted to give themselves in January 2009 during the height of an economic meltdown.

$133,900: the amount Fannie Mae "invested" in Chris Dodd (D-CT), head of the powerful Senate Banking Committee, presumably to repel oversight of the GSE prior to its meltdown. Said meltdown helped touch off the current economic crisis. In only a few years time, Fannie also "invested" over $105,000 in then-Senator Barack Obama.

$140,000: the amount of back taxes and interest that Cabinet nominee Tom Daschle (D) was forced to cough up after the vetting process revealed significant, unexplained tax liabilities.

$356,000: the approximate amount of income and deductions that Daschle (D) was forced to report on his amended 2005 and 2007 tax returns after being caught cheating on his taxes. This includes $255,256 for the use of a car service, $83,333 in unreported income, and $14,963 in charitable contributions.

$800,000: the amount of "sweetheart" mortgages Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd (D-CT) received from Countrywide Financial, the details for which he has refused to release details despite months of promises to do so. Countrywide was once the nation's largest mortgage lender and linked to Government-Sponsored Entities like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Their meltdown precipitated the current financial crisis. Just days ago in Pennsylvania, Countrywide was forced to pay $150,000,000 in mortgage assistance following "a state investigation that concluded that Countrywide relaxed its underwriting standards to sell risky loans to consumers who did not understand them and could not afford them."

$1,000,000: the estimated amount of donations by Denise Rich, wife of fugitive Marc Rich, to Democrat interests and the William J. Clinton Foundation in an apparent quid pro quo deal that resulted in a pardon for Mr. Rich. The pardon was reviewed and blessed by Obama Attorney General and then Deputy AG Eric Holder, despite numerous requests by government officials to turn it down.

$12,000,000: the amount of TARP money provided to community bank OneUnited despite the fact that it did not qualify for funds, and was "under attack from its regulators for allegations of poor lending practices and executive-pay abuses." It turns out that Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), a key contributor to the Fannie Mae meltdown, just happens to be married to one of the bank's ex-directors.

$23,500,000: The upper range of net worth Rep. Allan Mollohan (D-WV) accumulated in four years time according to The Washington Post through earmarks of "tens of millions of dollars to groups associated with his own business partners."

$2,000,000,000: ($2 billion) the approximate amount of money that House Appropriations Chairman David Obey (D-WI) is earmarking related to his son's lobbying efforts. Craig Obey is "a top lobbyist for the nonprofit group" that would receive a roughly $2 billion component of the "Stimulus" package.

$3,700,000,000: ($3.7 billion) not to be outdone, this is the estimated value of various defense contracts awarded to a company controlled by the husband of Rep. Diane Feinstein (D-CA). Despite an obvious conflict-of-interest as "a member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee, Sen. Feinstein voted for appropriations worth billions to her husband's firms ."

$4,190,000,000: ($4.19 billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN group under the auspices of "Community Stabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in Ohio.

$1,646,000,000,000: ($1.646 trillion): the approximate amount of annual United States exports endangered by the "Stimulus" package, which provides a "Buy American" stricture. According to international trade experts, a "US-EU trade war looms", which could result in a worldwide economic depression reminiscent of that touched off by the protectionist Smoot-Hawley Act.

1. I hate memes.

2. I dated a girl because she owned a 69 Corvette Stingray.

3. I am teaching myself Trigonometry and Calculus.

4. I ate 30 packets of Smarties candy today.

5. My teeth hurt.

6. I really hate living in Boise, Idaho.

7. I refuse to move because I fear change.

8. I wrote a letter to President Clinton when I was 10 years old, asking him to make abortion illegal.

9. I've never been outside of the United States.

10. My roommate got me hooked on Sudoku.

11. I think of Timothy McVeigh as a war hero.

12. I am not racist against people who don't fit stereotypes.

13. I am an excelent speler.

14. I am a virgin.

15. I've never been to Virginia.

16. I am fascinated by the etymology of words.

17. I can say the alphabet backwards while drunk...flawlessly.

18. I am a boring person.

19. I love wearing Hawaiian shirts.

20. My first memory is of my neighbor's dog, Oscar, trying to bite my left index finger off. Apparently they don't like to be poked in the eye by a toddler.

21. I've never broken a bone.

22. I have been known to troll chat rooms disguised as an ultra-conservative Christian.

23. I have a picture of Jessica Tandy in my wallet...don't ask.

24. My seventh birthday party was at McDonald's. I haven't been back since then.

25. I am a vegetarian.

QM has a good point about Timothy Geithner, what a horrible choice. Never did like Obama's economic strategy, then again I didn't like Bush's or McCain's either. But I suppose I'm pretty radical when it comes to my own ideas of economic policy.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Never mind lobbyist nonsense...
The Senate has voted to confirm Timothy Geithner, who didn’t pay his income taxes for years and lied and cheated on them when he finally did, as treasury secretary.
What can I say?
It’s just the most honest and ethical administration ever. Change we can believe in.


I kinda agree with you QM, that choice is fucked up. Still, it also shows your tax laws are fucked up too, that even he cheats on his taxes. Fair taxation would reduce tax fraud.

Never mind lobbyist nonsense...

The Senate has voted to confirm Timothy Geithner, who didn’t pay his income taxes for years and lied and cheated on them when he finally did, as treasury secretary.

What can I say?

It’s just the most honest and ethical administration ever. Change we can believe in.

>> ^Seric:
The internet eh? O Rly?
From Wikipedia:
'Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA (born 8 June 1955) is an English computer scientist credited with inventing the World Wide Web. On 25 December 1990 he implemented the first successful communication between an HTTP client and server via the Internet ...


What the hell is this? 1990! Christ, that was like yesterday. The Internet is so much older than that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

You can't deny that the Internet and TCP/IP came out of the United States.

Also, where are your Mars rovers again?

I'm just winding ya up, I love England.

>> ^joedirt:
>> ^StukaFox:
Also, Americans, World War 2 was over 60 years ago. The Moon landing was almost 40 years ago. What the hell have you done in the near half-century since then to justify your unbridled and grating arrogance?

How about the internet and modern computing you ungrateful twat (and UAVs and cluster bombs and MOAB and GPS)


The internet eh? O Rly?

From Wikipedia:

'Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA (born 8 June 1955) is an English computer scientist credited with inventing the World Wide Web. On 25 December 1990 he implemented the first successful communication between an HTTP client and server via the Internet with the help of Robert Cailliau and a young student staff at CERN. He was ranked Joint First alongside Albert Hofmann in The Telegraph's list of 100 greatest living geniuses. Berners-Lee is the director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), which oversees the Web's continued development, the founder of the World Wide Web Foundation and he is a senior researcher and holder of the 3Com Founders Chair at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL).'

Sure, the concept of packet switching was first documented in New York, and I'm not about to claim the internet for Britain. But that does mean you can't claim the entierty for the US either. The long and the short of it is that it's a joint effort. No one nation can claim the internet. Which is kinda cool, as it emphasises the point of the thing.

On other matters, such as comedy, there's no point in arguing it seeing as its a matter of personal preference, its like arguing what is the best colour or the best number, fucking pointless. I might think that Michael Mcintyre is one of the most promising comedians I've seen in a long time, alot of other people will find him annoying, personal preference is what makes things interesting, arguing your point on it however is like being one of those dipshit hecklers in the crowd. Sit down, shut your mouth and wait for the next act.

If you choose to believe in a creator God then there can be only one God. You cannot say you believe in God then choose to say that someone else's God is also a God. So if you believe in God then there is only one manual - his will for people. If you don't follow it then you are disobeying his word.

Of course you can choose not to believe in a God, or choose to believe in some other type of God. However, I will continue to believe that my God is the one and only God. I will not ram my beliefs down your throat but I will not accept your God as legitimate even if he makes you feel good. I will calmly tell you my beliefs if you choose to listen. This is how I practice tolerance... you can choose what you believe and I will not persecute you for choosing something contrary to what I believe in. However, my beliefs are founded on his manual and they are not wavering.

I don't take offense to the video, I simply don't agree with it.

BTW, organized religion fails us because people bring in tradition and their own cultural beliefs into religion. If people followed Biblical principles (or whatever manual you really want to follow), then we wouldn't have the religious issues we have today. For example, the mess that the Catholic church has with priests abusing children is because the Catholic church doesn't allow the priests to marry. If the Catholic church followed their own Bible they would allow them to Marry. Second Timothy specifically mentions that Bishops should "be the husband of one wife". It's tradition that dictates that priests can't marry.

So when Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in 1995, because he saw the entire US government as terrorists, that was okay with you?

Of course not. McVeigh's actions were dead wrong and he was summarily brought to justice for his crime. Whatever point he was trying to make about government thuggery at Waco was drowned out by his monstrous, nihilistic act. Not only did he fail, he gave the thugs at Waco and lots of other government slime more power to encroach on liberty.

So when Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in 1995, because he saw the entire US government as terrorists, that was okay with you? Interesting.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Liberals should be joyous America responded so milldly.
On September 12th, 2001, Afghanistan should've been a glass parking lot.

>> ^burdturgler:
Read the post right above yours
"...democracy, sectarianism, 'terrorism', oil, the Islamic state..."
That would be terrorism in relation to Islam, not domestic terrorism like Timothy McVeigh, etc.
And it needs to be part of the content of the video.


Oops sry, didn't read the paragraph closely enough.

Read the post right above yours
"...democracy, sectarianism, 'terrorism', oil, the Islamic state..."
That would be terrorism in relation to Islam, not domestic terrorism like Timothy McVeigh, etc.
And it needs to be part of the content of the video.

>> ^imstellar28:
1. By the way, why are you defaming someone who died almost 40 years ago? If she was alive today, would you have the courage to say what you're saying if you met her?
2. I'm not imposing anything on anyone, how could I? My philosophy explictly forbids violence, while your philosophy explicitly requires it.
3. Altruism is an ideal which rarely manifests itself in reality. People pretend they are altruistic because they think it is a virtue. It is not. Those who pretend to be good are frauds, and worse than those who are bad but honest. You don't appear to be "altruistic"--you just want to force others to be "altruistic". Selfishness is a good thing. You wouldn't be breathing if your genes (and your ancestors they drove) weren't selfish.
4. I am not concerned with my demeanor because you (and others) will think I am crazed just because of the beliefs I hold, regardless of the manner in which I convey them. Case in point, you consider Ayn Rand to have a psychological imbalance when I am aware of no public instances when she has failed to be articulate and polite. She disagrees with your opinion, and writes entire books explaining why you are wrong, and all you can muster is "she is mentally ill"

This entire argument comes down to the answer to a single question "Do you believe it is moral to initiate violence against another human being" . My answer is no.
Socialism is not possible without the initiation of violence. If thats what you want, fine, but don't pretend you have the moral high ground because you are robbing houses in order to donate to a cancer fund. You aren't altruistic, noble, moral, or good--you are just another tyrant who uses violence as a means to their ends.


1. Debate technique, pure and simple. Pushing your buttons, since you were trying to push mine (and many others'). I'm not sure what I'd say to Rand if I had a chance to meet her, but I think I'd phrase it as a question, whatever it was. "Don't you think it's possible your philosophy is a major psychological reaction to your childhood?", possibly.

2. Perhaps it's a bit of a strawman argument on my part. When you say "fuck democracy" in the context of a general rant about some extreme ideology, it makes me think about people like Timothy McVeigh, not Patrick Henry. To get to where you want to go, you either need to get 1000 times more persuasive and use "majority oppression" to get your ideology implemented, or start a revolution the old-fashioned way, with guns. Otherwise you're just being a pissant.

3. Where does the altruistic desire come from, if not from our genes? That said, you claim that my pushing for more government projects to aid the poor & middle class is not altruistic? Why? Because you see all government action as "force" or "slavery"? It's not my problem you're crazy. That said, I think I'd benefit directly from things like a middle-class tax cut, and government healthcare plans, and indirectly from aid given to the poor. Maybe I'm just appropriately selfish, and insufficiently fundamentalist about market economics for you.

4. Psychological imbalance doesn't necessarily mean she rants and raves and calls people's beliefs shitburgers, or the people themselves cows, though it can manifest itself that way too. I'll confess to being rather psychologically imbalanced myself -- take a look at those posts people have shared about their "Personal top 10" channels. Mine's very different from other people's, and skewed hard towards politics. It doesn't mean I'm incapable of being polite, or stringing together coherent sentences, it just means I'm not very balanced in what I'm interested in. I hope I'll get a little more balanced once this damnned election is finally done, though.

As to your closing argument, you're assuming your premise. It's not about initiation of violence, it's about enforcing a contract.

You are (I assume) a citizen of the United States. You may have been made one automatically by birth, but you can rescind that at any time, and leave. In short, you participate in our government by voluntary contract, and enforcing contracts seems to be a government action you libertarians like, even if violence is necessary.

Socialism is perfectly fine, in your view, if it's done by voluntary contract, right? Or do you espouse a belief that government should regulate economic activity to exclude socialistic communes...like city governments?

I don't use violence any more than you do, I also just speak my mind, and work within the existing system to try to make the things I want happen. You want to destroy the system itself, and that's pretty violent in my mind.