This kind of silly politics is one of the many reasons why I basically gave up on F1 and switched to MotoGP & WSB. No silly team orders there!

14 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.

Just for clarity, I know it's not a dupe from two things. For one, here is the original description from antonye (don't put it past him to edit it after this)


"The MotoGP Championship is the pinnacle of motorcycle racing; the motorcycle equivalent of F1 cars. Eight-times World Champion Valentino Rossi (#46) is defending his title against his team-mate Jorge Lorenzo (#99) in these last two laps of the Catalunya Grands Prix from 14th June 2009.

And yes, they're doing over 200mph (>325kph) when we first join them!

(commentary in Dutch, but you get the idea...)"


DO YOU HEAR ANY DUTCH IN THIS VIDEO?

Secondly, he posted his video 3 years before the one I posted was made.


Dick.

Your video, Greatest MotoGP Finish of all time, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Wow !
I'm far from a MotoGP fan but I don't see how you can watch this and not be very impressed ....

I've only been into motogp since the last part of last season. It's an awesome thing to watch for the close racing and all the overtakes and tactics and excitement. Simoncelli was a new gp rider last year and I've watched him change and develop and really start to show his real talent. Despite being far too big for the bikes he had a knack of going fast in a really exciting way. I didn't know him at all, but I did like him as a rider and he was always interesting to watch.

It's often said that people enjoy watching racing for the crashes. That if motor racing is made too safe it sanitises and ruins it. That if there is no risk there is no excitement. Bollox. I watch F1 and MotoGP to see the skill of the riders and drivers. To see the race unfold. To see how they better their rivals on the track. Of course crashes are going to happen, particularly on the bikes. If they aren't crashing it's questionable if they're pushing hard enough. Simoncelli certainly knew about crashing as he was pushing 110% from the start before his skill level had risen to meet his ego. As his time in MotoGP has gone on he's got better and better. He was going to win races and going to win a championship. I'm genuinely saddened by what's happened. 24 is no age to go.

My heart goes out to Colin Edwards and Valentino Rossi. They must be going through hell right now.

>> ^therealblankman:

>> ^MaxWilder:
Interesting, but I wouldn't say terrifying. At least not to the viewer. The ones I call terrifying are when the riders are doing cartwheels and more bikes are plowing into them. That's what I expected from the title.

Well, I'm a rider and the thought of going over my handlebars at over 170 miles per hour terrifies me. I'll be sure and ask Westby and Knapp to next time make sure their crash is more spectacular for your benefit.


Hey, I'm just throwing out an opinion here, as a viewer. Those guys look like they're sliding on ice, which is not very terrifying to watch.

Much closer to "terrifying":
http://videosift.com/video/Unbelievable-motorcycle-crash-at-Jerez-MotoGP
http://videosift.com/video/Motorcycle-Wheelie-Crash-at-90-MPH-Helmet-Cam

>> ^griefer_queafer:

izee aiiiight?


He got some bruised lungs, gtg after a day or two.

It's going up and down because it's not an F1 simulator.
It's MotoGP, and the backward tilting is from wheelies, and the dipping is from corner braking forces.

>> ^cybrbeast:
Why did the technology die with him? Surely more could be built?


One person with extraordinary vision, coupled with technological know-how, engineering brilliance and the ability to get his hands dirty and plain-and-simple build what he imagines is a rare thing.

In the case of the Britten bike, this is a partial list of what made his bike special:

1) Partial girder-link front suspension with adjustable anti-dive properties.
-fork-type suspensions compress under braking and extend during acceleration, changing the geometry and handling characteristics of the machine quite drastically during the different driving modes. Britten's suspension design allowed him to control pretty much all variables of suspension geometry under changing load, making the bike behave however the rider wished.
- The rear suspension, while perhaps not as revolutionary, was a beautiful piece. It was essentially a carbon-fibre banana swing-arm with a linkage to the adjustable shock/spring assembly. If you look at the bike you'll see that there's no spring/shock assembly near the rear suspension, rather note the spring/shock assembly directly behind the front wheel- this is for the rear suspension! The front shock assembly is hidden in the front suspension linkage and cowling.

2) The engine itself was a stressed-member.
-While certainly not unheard of, Britten took the concept to an extreme, essentially eliminating the frame from the motorcycle. The front and rear suspensions essentially bolted directly to the engine, thus saving many kilos over contemporary designs. Take a look at any current MotoGP or Superbike- most use the engine as a partial stressed-member, but they all have frame members linking the engine, steering heads and seat-assemblies. Britten really only had a vestigial sub-frame for the rider's seat.

3) Well-controlled aerodynamics and fully-ducted cooling system
-Britten paid close attention to airflow over, around and through his bike. Look how cleanly the rider's body tucks into the bodywork. He paid close attention to details, notice how clean the entire assembly is- no exposed wiring, nothing dangling into the airflow, that incredibly sleek rear swing-arm and rear tire hugger. This keeps the airflow smooth and un-disturbed. Motorcycles aren't terribly aerodynamic machines in the first place, but a wise man once said God is in the details.
-The engine itself is a water cooled design, but where's the radiator? It's in a fully-sealed duct directly beneath the rider's seat. High-pressure air is inlet from the front of the bike, through the radiator and is exhausted into the low pressure area beneath the rider and above/ahead of the rear wheel. Greater cooling equals higher power potential.

4) The motor
- 999cc 60 degree V-Twin, belt-driven DOHC design, twin injectors per cylinder, sophisticated electronic ignition, hand-made carbon fibre velocity stacks, wet sump. The motor was designed to breathe hard, pumping out torque and horsepower (166 hp @ 11800 rpm- not sure about the torque figures), and run cool and reliably under racing conditions. Nothing here that any other manufacturer couldn't have figured out on their own, but Britten had the insight and the will to make the best motor in the world at the time. The 60 degree configuration was, I assume chosen for packaging reasons. Normally this configuration would have bad primary balance characteristics, but Britten engineered his to such tight tolerances that the engine ran smoothly right up to redline (12500 rpm) without using a balance shaft.
I'll also point out here that Britten wasn't above using someone else's part if it was better than he could make himself- the gearbox was from a Suzuki superbike, and the cylinder liners and voltage regulator (both of which failed at the Daytona race in '92- the latter costing Britten the win) were from Ducati.

5) Carbon Fibre
- While Carbon Fibre had been around for 2 decades or so at this point, nobody had used it so extensively. Britten used the material for bodywork, wheels, engine parts, suspension girders and the rear swing-arm. There is still no other bike, not even the current Ducati Desmosedici MotoGP bike, that uses so much of this exotic material. The stuff then, as it is now, was hugely expensive and challenging to engineer for different applications. Britten made everything himself, in his garage, figuring it out as he went. This kept the total weight of the bike to a hugely impressive 138 kg.

Keep in mind that he did all of the above in 1991 and 1992, with the help of several neighbors and one part-time machinist, in his backyard shed! He made the bodywork by hand, using a wire frame and hot melt glue, crafting the wind-cheating shape and cooling ducting purely by eye. He cast the aluminum engine parts himself, heat-treating them in his wife's pottery kiln, and cooling the heat-treated parts with water from his swimming pool!

Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki... any one of these manufactures could today reproduce and expand on what Britten accomplished almost single-handedly. None of them will- there's too much at stake for them. It's far safer to stick with the tried-and-true, making small evolutionary changes over the years. A true visionary achiever (to coin a term) like Britten comes along only every once in a great while.

I suppose that this is what was really lost when John Britten died... vision, engineering acuity, hands-on knowledge, and pure will. Touched with a little craziness.

In reply to this comment by cybrbeast:
Why did the technology die with him? Surely more could be built?

>> ^cybrbeast:
Why did the technology die with him? Surely more could be built?


One person with extraordinary vision, coupled with technological know-how, engineering brilliance and the ability to get his hands dirty and plain-and-simple build what he imagines is a rare thing.

In the case of the Britten bike, this is a partial list of what made his bike special:

1) Partial girder-link front suspension with adjustable anti-dive properties.
-fork-type suspensions compress under braking and extend during acceleration, changing the geometry and handling characteristics of the machine quite drastically during the different driving modes. Britten's suspension design allowed him to control pretty much all variables of suspension geometry under changing load, making the bike behave however the rider wished.
- The rear suspension, while perhaps not as revolutionary, was a beautiful piece. It was essentially a carbon-fibre banana swing-arm with a linkage to the adjustable shock/spring assembly. If you look at the bike you'll see that there's no spring/shock assembly near the rear suspension, rather note the spring/shock assembly directly behind the front wheel- this is for the rear suspension! The front shock assembly is hidden in the front suspension linkage and cowling.

2) The engine itself was a stressed-member.
-While certainly not unheard of, Britten took the concept to an extreme, essentially eliminating the frame from the motorcycle. The front and rear suspensions essentially bolted directly to the engine, thus saving many kilos over contemporary designs. Take a look at any current MotoGP or Superbike- most use the engine as a partial stressed-member, but they all have frame members linking the engine, steering heads and seat-assemblies. Britten really only had a vestigial sub-frame for the rider's seat.

3) Well-controlled aerodynamics and fully-ducted cooling system
-Britten paid close attention to airflow over, around and through his bike. Look how cleanly the rider's body tucks into the bodywork. He paid close attention to details, notice how clean the entire assembly is- no exposed wiring, nothing dangling into the airflow, that incredibly sleek rear swing-arm and rear tire hugger. This keeps the airflow smooth and un-disturbed. Motorcycles aren't terribly aerodynamic machines in the first place, but a wise man once said God is in the details.
-The engine itself is a water cooled design, but where's the radiator? It's in a fully-sealed duct directly beneath the rider's seat. High-pressure air is inlet from the front of the bike, through the radiator and is exhausted into the low pressure area beneath the rider and above/ahead of the rear wheel. Greater cooling equals higher power potential.

4) The motor
- 999cc 60 degree V-Twin, belt-driven DOHC design, twin injectors per cylinder, sophisticated electronic ignition, hand-made carbon fibre velocity stacks, wet sump. The motor was designed to breathe hard, pumping out torque and horsepower (166 hp @ 11800 rpm- not sure about the torque figures), and run cool and reliably under racing conditions. Nothing here that any other manufacturer couldn't have figured out on their own, but Britten had the insight and the will to make the best motor in the world at the time. The 60 degree configuration was, I assume chosen for packaging reasons. Normally this configuration would have bad primary balance characteristics, but Britten engineered his to such tight tolerances that the engine ran smoothly right up to redline (12500 rpm) without using a balance shaft.
I'll also point out here that Britten wasn't above using someone else's part if it was better than he could make himself- the gearbox was from a Suzuki superbike, and the cylinder liners and voltage regulator (both of which failed at the Daytona race in '92- the latter costing Britten the win) were from Ducati.

5) Carbon Fibre
- While Carbon Fibre had been around for 2 decades or so at this point, nobody had used it so extensively. Britten used the material for bodywork, wheels, engine parts, suspension girders and the rear swing-arm. There is still no other bike, not even the current Ducati Desmosedici MotoGP bike, that uses so much of this exotic material. The stuff then, as it is now, was hugely expensive and challenging to engineer for different applications. Britten made everything himself, in his garage, figuring it out as he went. This kept the total weight of the bike to a hugely impressive 138 kg.

Keep in mind that he did all of the above in 1991 and 1992, with the help of several neighbors and one part-time machinist, in his backyard shed! He made the bodywork by hand, using a wire frame and hot melt glue, crafting the wind-cheating shape and cooling ducting purely by eye. He cast the aluminum engine parts himself, heat-treating them in his wife's pottery kiln, and cooling the heat-treated parts with water from his swimming pool!

Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki... any one of these manufactures could today reproduce and expand on what Britten accomplished almost single-handedly. None of them will- there's too much at stake for them. It's far safer to stick with the tried-and-true, making small evolutionary changes over the years. A true visionary achiever (to coin a term) like Britten comes along only every once in a great while.

I suppose that this is what was really lost when John Britten died... vision, engineering acuity, hands-on knowledge, and pure will. Touched with a little craziness.

Then there's the MotoGP version...

>> ^osama1234: He could have easily caused a crash by being so aggressive and forcing rossi to be agressive.


Racing is dangerous. Being aggressive is part of that. This ain't Driving Ms. Daisy.

Funny how someone can render some of the finest MotoGP riding in recent memory in to a WH&S issue.

That's why MotoGP is more exciting than F1 - there are no team orders!

As a motorcycle racer myself, there was nothing (too) aggressive about the lines either of them were taking, they just have different riding styles and that shows up in the on-board shots. Some of those lines were defensive to stop the other over-taking on certain corners, but sometimes a defensive line just opens another line instead - as clearly shown by Rossi on the last over-take! Sometimes there's just not enough room to go for a pass that you want to make, and you have to back off. These guys are thinking laps ahead, let alone corners ahead, when timing their runs to over-take.

Both of these guys are World Championship racers. Rossi is the wise master with God-like abilities but Lorenzo is the young protagonist who will fill Rossi's boots at some point.

But as they say: the first person to beat is your team-mate.

You just made me a MotoGP fan.

In reply to this comment by antonye:
>> ^rottenseed:
Thanks I was wondering what he meant by a blue flag. So there's a flag to let you know you're better off packing your bags?


Yes, the blue flag is shown to warn riders that the race leaders are about to lap them. You're supposed to be nice and get off the racing line so the leaders can pass unhindered and you then rejoin.

This is why it's otherwise known as the "there's a race going on and you ain't in it" flag

As for comments about why they're not hurting themselves, the type of crash (a "low-side" where the bike falls due to loss of grip) means that the energy is spent by the rider sliding along the tarmac. The idea is that the run-off (usually grass and then "kitty litter" gravel) will dissipate this energy so you are taken away from the track and slowed down without hitting a barrier. That's not to say that injuries don't happen; should you be rolling or catch something and start to tumble, you're likely to break bones as your arms/legs go flailing. This whiplash will dislocate limbs if you're lucky and break them if you're not. Wayne Rainey was paralysed from the chest down in one such incident while racing in 1993.

Modern riding kit helps a lot; leather is still very difficult to beat (some use Kangaroo leather, others use Stingray skin!) and with reinforced areas and protectors (usually for knees, elbows, shoulders, back and chest) it means you can walk away from a 200mph slide.

For sheer bone-breaking madness, you really don't want to "high-side" a bike. This is where the rear of the bike will lose traction and start to slide. This has the dual effect of tilting the bike and moving it off axis of the direction of travel, like a handbrake turn in a car. This also compresses the rear suspension, usually a single shock absorber. The problem comes when, due to the rear wheel slowing down through sideways motion, the rear wheel grips again. At this point the bike will now try to rotate around the horizontal axis (from one side to the other) due to the sudden grip stopping the slide. This gives the rear suspension a chance to uncompress, and has the effect of firing the rider out of the seat. Give it enough speed, slide and compression and you've just invented the Motorcycle Ejector Seat.

For some great crashes in MotoGP, the bike equivalent of Formula 1, have a look here (fast forward to 5m10s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLZEKQHyxMI
And yes, if you watched the #1 crash, Jorge Lorenzo really did break *both* his ankles in qualifying, but went on to race and came 4th!