“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

I count it as a hyper generous humanitarian gift given by Palestinians on day 1 that by day 3 (year 10+-) had become an invasion of hostile violent foreigners.

Because I don’t have a perfect solution for a problem no one could solve at the time does not in any way shape or form excuse the hostile invasion or fascist racist genocidal regimes since…
…but my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight, not run off and invade elsewhere. If they had the fighters to take Israel, they had the fighters to turn the war years earlier, but went for invasion and occupation instead.

So, you DO think the people of Haiti have the right to come to your doorstep and toss you in the street. I disagree. I reiterate, not being safe at home is no excuse to go elsewhere and make it’s inhabitants unsafe, especially if those inhabitants had nothing to do with you being unsafe, more so if they actually stuck their neck out to make some of your family safe.

I’ll try to unscramble that…”what would I have the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?”…the native Jews, nothing. They’re citizens. The refugees, refugee camps of a certain size and no over crowding. Once they’re full, go elsewhere. There were other places to go, although limited. The British had an obligation to support the Palestinians and prepare them to run the country, an obligation they completely shirked and instead facilitated the invasion of hostile foreigners while keeping the Palestinians defenseless.

Fuck you 6 million. They weren’t waiting for legal avenues for immigration. Those people for the most part had no option to be refugees or decide a thing, the Germans and Polish essentially woke up one day unable to travel. The people we are talking about had over a decade, and included Germans.

No, my POV relies on the theory that you having a bad time doesn’t give you a license to murder me and steal my stuff and subjugate my descendants horrifically.
Historically many groups have had tough scary times, many ending in actual genocide. Few took that as an opportunity to do the same to another group that was trying to help them out of the tough spot. Zionists did….and with Americans help. I’ll never stop pointing it out.
The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a genocide today. Do they have a right to go invade some weaker nation for their safety? No. That’s not reasonable or acceptable.

I think your POV relies on the theory that, because Jews were being increasingly persecuted in Europe that gives them the right to take a friendly nation by force and subjugate and persecute its people forever…

"Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invadeflee was?"

Characterization matters a little here, no?

"They had a right to refugee status there, not to take control and possession by force"

Which is at the heart of things.

The Arab narrative is that Jews arrived guns loaded and set about pillaging, killing and invading as soon as they had sufficient numbers, while the poor domestic Arab population had only been trying to assist and welcome in the refugees...

Which is ahistorical propaganda.

The reality is that for the most part, the European Jews arriving in Palestine were refugees and acting like refugees. Meaning they mostly just wanted to be able to provide food, shelter and safety for the families, just like everyone else. Most of them tried to set about doing this by legally purchasing land.

Lots of the local Arabs similarly were content to get along.

At that same time though, there were hardcore Zionists among the Jewish arrivals AND there were xenophobic elements willing to use violence within the Arab population too.

The tensions rose as the populations rose, but largely as a result of a large people being displaced, and NOT as the planned invasion you describe. The local Arab population started to band together to refuse to work, trade or sell to Jews. Violence broke out instigated separately on smallish scales by BOTH sides. Escalating violence followed, again back and forth between sides.

I'm in a camp that has a hard time blaming either the domestic Arab population for distress at the huge influx of refugees, nor for the European Jewish people having a low tolerance for discrimination and violence directed there way solely for being Jewish.

I see it as a huge mess, but with two large populations of Jewish and Arab people in Palestine acting not terribly unreasonably under circumstances of extreme pressure.

I think it's lazy and convenient to just declare 'invasion' so that you can simplify it all down to right/wrong and good guy/bad guy....

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.

Agreed, the details are many, but trying to see what will happen in the future is simple, it’s the same thing that’s been happening in the past. Israel will continue to illegally expand into territory they agreed belongs to Palestinians, will continue to militarily support and defend the murderous settlers that murder Palestinian families and steal their land constantly with no repercussion at all, and will use any resistance to that violent expansion as an excuse to abuse and further control and murder the remaining citizens while blaming them for their plight.
That’s exactly what’s happening today.
The areas hit by Hamas were all Palestinian land stolen by settlers with full military support, not in Israel but in what was recently Palestine. The expansionist invasion continues, it’s never stopped, and some people don’t understand why the remaining civilians imprisoned in the ghetto by Israel, often with no food, water, or medicine, might revolt and throw stones, but you totally understand why the invaders should get to flatten entire populated cities if one of theirs gets hurt.

The population of Israel is 15 times Gaza, but the casualties of this 70 year conflict are statistically all Palestinians. Just this latest conflict has seen under 1400 Israeli casualties and over 15000 Palestinian civilians…nearly 5000 YOUNG children. THE NORM IS MUCH WORSE, normally this retaliation would come after fireworks hurt 4 settlers almost killing one and damaging their stolen house.

There’s something Americans can do. Vote for a president that will cut all military aid to countries that commit war crimes regularly. Simple, but not easy.

Israeli military is only so strong because we support them. Without American weapons and support, Israel would be a long distant memory of a short lived immigrant invasion.

Yes, Hamas has rhetorically been as genocidal as Israel (also totally genocidal)…but they have zero ability to follow through, while Israel is actively committing genocide today with the most advanced weaponry on the planet we supply, and for the last 70 years. If Israel directly eliminated Palestine as they have stated they will, they would start another war with every neighbor, this time likely without support. Otherwise they would have followed through 40+ years ago. This newest “occupation” may be the last. There will be no rebuilding under occupation, and there are few habitable structures left in Gaza. It’s a small town of 750000 people flattened, under total embargo, and under a shoot on sight order from their oppressors.

Yes, Israel is fighting its neighbors….100% because of their treatment of Palestinians and blatant intent to ignore any borders in their expansion. Combined with Iran their neighbors aren’t 1/2 the military power Israel is thanks 100% to America supplying advanced weapons and defense platforms for decades at our expense.

Invading occupying military forces have no right to complain they are threatened…that’s like saying we should hand squatters AR-15s and grenades because they keep being threatened by the home owners and the neighborhood, and the squatters have every right to shoot neighbors in their own yards if they seem threatening, but the neighbors and home owners have no rights whatsoever, not even the right to leave home because that threatens the squatters. Not even the right of self defense when the squatters invite their family over to take the neighbor’s homes.
I prefer shooting squatters and dumping the bodies in the sewer where they belong. Zionists are all squatters….well armed squatters.

The squatters do not have the right to murder the neighbors who signed the petition to remove the violent squatters. The squatters are always the wrong party no matter what. Period. End on line.


Because Israel intends to act unilaterally and violently to ensure their defense and continued expansion, always at the expense of their neighbors, they should be abandoned by the rest of the world. Murderous expansionist invading occupying racist armies get zero sympathy, and there’s no such thing as an Israeli civilian, they do not exist, only those yet to be military, andtive military, and those in reserve…conversely there’s no such thing as a Palestinian soldier in Gaza…does not exist.

Militaries that attack civilian populations are war criminals…every time. Yes, that includes America in Afghanistan, but bears noting the Afghans protected Alkaida (sp?), the Palestinian government and most civilians do not support Hamas.
I do not want to be supporting foreign war crimes with my tax dollars.

Jesus you’re a moron.

You’re also 100% wrong….as usual.

Maybe don’t get your news from Tyler Durden (He’s the anarchist terrorist nutjob from Fight Club you idiot)…and maybe learn to read.
None of what you claim is in the article you linked.
Every detail you got wrong.

No election was overturned.
The primary is being rerun because of possible interference, no ballot harvesting was proven. The ACCUSATION was ballot stuffing, not harvesting…and it also wasn’t proven.

The person accused of ballot stuffing didn’t win the primary…so you’re wrong on that point too. WTF you brain dead slug?!?
That said, those caught appearing to submit multiple ballots to ballot boxes (something a family member, a police officer, an ELECTION OFFICIAL or a caretaker may do, so may be no crime at all) need to be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent to determine IF there was a crime, and if so given the max sentence…right after all the Republicans caught cheating in 2020 and 22 are.

Cheating democrats lose every time…look at Clinton…democrats don’t like cheaters. Only cheating republicans win, not honorable candidates, cheating by ballot harvesting, ballot stuffing, voter roll purging, gerrymandering, double voting (like Trump famously and publicly instructed Republicans to do in 2020), threats of physical violence, actual physical violence, etc, and they are protected by your party of criminals like you just protected MAGA fraud Santos from expulsion for being a total 100% fraud in every way possible AND a fugitive AND an illegal alien (there’s no way he legally immigrated while he was a legal fugitive from Brazil)…repugnacans (repugnant republicans) like yourself think only morons follow rules and the law or tell the truth if it doesn’t benefit them, even when under oath.


In your state it was proven that the Republican filled out thousands of registration cards with his office as the address, and voted using those ballots. He also had staff collect thousands of ballots from nursing homes and fill out any race not voted on for republicans. He’s just one of dozens of republican candidates that were caught cheating elections.

Also….it’s without…not with out.

Oof…even Republicans are so disgusted by her that Hoe-bert is being primaried by Republicans…even they are so sick of hypocritical MAGA they would prefer a Democrat, but are trying another Republican.
Luckily he is also failing, bringing in less than half her fundraising.
Her Democratic opponent is out fundraising her by a factor of 4.

Bonus - disgraced Trump “judge” Cannon has been smacked down hard in the records case by the 11th circuit stating there never was “equitable jurisdiction” for her to insert herself in the case, it didn’t pass the “Richey Test”, the standard to assert “equitable jurisdiction”. This ends the special master overseeing the documents, and likely ends the building a multi million dollar special SCIF at tax payer expense just for Trump so he doesn’t have to go a few miles to Miami where one already exists to view the documents HE STOLE.

Without her running interference, Trump’s treason case for theft of classified military secrets is going to loose bigly. Firing squad time! 😂

😂 Second bonus- Ivanka’s lawyers forgot to submit her sworn statements so now she is going to be forced to testify in open court against daddy in his $250000000 civil fraud case he already lost and is in the damages phase! 😂 couldn’t happen to a more deserving crime family! 😂

No, dumbshit. More nonsensical bullshit and lies. Trump was not right, not with this baseless accusation or any other. He was making an admission that HE takes bribes from China.

Hunter made money through a private investment company portfolio he invested in/earned after his father left office that included Chinese government owned companies, so he technically made money from China (uncaptured capital gains not distributed yet btw)…just like Trump did except Hunter reported it to the IRS while Trump hid it in secret bank accounts in China, preferring to pay taxes to China and defraud the USA. He wasn’t paid bribes by the Chinese government like Trump alleged and Joe denied…BUT TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY WERE.
And yes, Hunter was paid for his work in Ukraine. Shocker!

This is just another attempt to play on people’s poor memories and dishonestly edit clips to confuse the issue and lie by obfuscating and misrepresenting, bob.

You are never anywhere near honest. Every single thing you post or say is an outright lie. What a waste of skin you are.

If the bus driver had to slam on the brakes the guy standing in the aisle would probably go through windshield. To hell with seatbelts!

Also, Family of girl dragged by JCPS school bus gets nearly $5M in settlement. Bazinga!

The exact idiotic puke Republicans are doing.

Nope, got it directly from the Republicans whose families have been targeted. 🤦‍♂️
Look at Don Bacon’s public statements and the messages sent to his wife. Or Representative Miller Meeks who put out a public letter after she received multiple credible death threats. Multiple others too. All terroristic threats coming from MAGA.

Bidenomics is great. Low unemployment, high gdp, now low inflation too. The deficit is lower under Biden by half. You need to do some serious mental gymnastics to believe it’s not doing well.

Don’t you know you’re supposed to be against that to the point where, because a Republican thought for themselves and voted their conscience you are supposed to be terrorizing their families, following them everywhere in public, leaving threatening messages, doxing them including their children…MAGA is 100% violently against forming your own opinions, which is likely why we’ve never once seen you do it.

It was the first rated R movie I ever saw alone, maybe the first real horror movie too….I was staying with family friends in Mexico and they rented it for me when I was 10.
Good times!

I liked it better than Halloween, but Nightmare beat them both for murderous insanity.

For @bobknight33-
Oof….Trump is actually arguing in court he can’t be barred from office because he didn’t take an oath to support the constitution, and wasn’t an officer of the United States (not sure what he thinks holding the office of president of the United States/Commander in Chief is then) so his coup attempt and fomenting then supporting an insurrection was legal!

Again, Trump is arguing in court that the president has no obligation to follow, preserve, protect, or defend the constitution despite taking the oath “will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

The judge disagreed. Trial starts Oct 30. This one you can say is just about stopping Trump from running again, but you can’t blame Democrats because it’s Republicans that filed against him in Colorado. D’oh!

I guess that means Joe is free to declare himself president for life with rights of succession in perpetuity! Thanks Trump! 😂

Ruh-roe…Trump’s business fraud case just exposed Ivanka for a $13 million tax fraud because they valued her penthouse at $21 million for loans and net worth but she only paid taxes on it at an $8 million valuation. That’s called tax fraud, WAY more than Hunter is being investigated over. Get ready, round two will be his children in court/prison. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving family. 😂

PS- I was right about Scalise. I seriously doubt rapist cohort (177 kids raped under his watch) Gym Jordan can do better with less support. Even republicans can’t work with republicans.

Bonus- Santos now says after he’s tossed out of congress he’s going to spill the beans on Republicans who he has mountains of dirt on. This is going to be fun. 😂

Second Bonus- Allen Weisselberg’s testimony yesterday may have unraveled a massive criminal conspiracy, including a $2 million severance on the condition he doesn’t cooperate with the prosecution…in writing! That’s the definition of obstruction, and idiot that he is Weisselberg perjured himself badly on the stand yesterday to the point where the DA paused his examination to decide how to prosecute him. May be a 5th criminal indictment for obstruction and witness tampering soon, and another stay in Rikers for Mr lifelong Trump CFO that has absolutely zero accounting knowledge…hide and watch! 😂

You don’t know right from wrong…you still worship a treasonous rapist thief and con man who stole from disabled vets and America and you see nothing wrong with him.

Cons are upset at sex education because it makes sexually abusing children much more difficult. Boebert tried to teach children about sex by performing public sex acts while at a play designed and marketed for children…not for the first time. This is the only sex education Cons support…you want the kids too weak and ignorant to possibly stand up when your people rape them, not understanding what sex abuse is makes it much easier for you to get away with it.

251 Pennsylvania Republican State Sen. John Peterson, later elected to Congress - sexual harassment, grabbing a woman’s breast. See the screenshot
252 Neil Bush, the S&L grifter of the Bush family, sex tourism in Thailand and Hong Kong. We know what sex tourists are looking for in Thailand.

253 James Woods, actor and right-wing provocateur, was accused by Amber Tamblyn of trying to pick her up when she was underage. Since then many other women have come forward

254 Ted Nugent, alleged musician and right-wing provocateur who joked about assassinating Obama, beloved friend of moralist Huckabee - sex with underage girls

255 Gregory Nathan Peterson, Utah Republican fundraiser charged with 21 charges of rape, forcible sexual abuse and battery, two charges of aggravated kidnapping, one charge of assault and one charge of felony burglary. Committed suicide while on bail.

256 NH GOP Representative Robert Fisher created The Red Pill Reddit site which is known for its tips on how to get away with rape, etc.

257 Union County GA GOP Chairman - attempted rape and it was broadcast on internet

258 WI GOP Rep. Roger Rivard on the list for excusing and enabling rape by saying “some girls rape easy.”

259 NJ GOP candidate for town council Mike Krawitz had to resign after threatening, wishing reporter would be raped.

260 Rory A. Koch, committee administrator for the Minnesota House Republicans, child pornography

261 Former GOP Walton Co. Commissioner Lane Rees - child pornography

262 James "Dub" Maines, formerly GOP Rep. Joe Barton's deputy district director - child pornography

263 Joseph Hayon, Midwood Republican Who Ran On Family Values Platform, Confesses To Viewing Child Pornography

264 Charlotte Tea Party leader - child porn and had the nerve to claim it was how he self-medicated for an autistic disorder and depression from a failed relationship

265 Southern Baptist Convention leader and Trump religion advisor Frank Page resigns over moral failings

266 Far right religious leader Mark Aderholt - sex with underage girls, sexual assault. Church organization knew and ignored it.

267 Former Judge, Baptist Leader, Republican Paul Pressler - sexual abuse/assault underage men.

268 Larry Weinstein, Northampton Township Supervisor and former campaign manager for GOP Rep. Scott Petri and his girlfriend charged with indecently assaulting unconscious woman

269 GOP Commissioner John Butler and his wife sexually abused his underage niece. He was pardoned by Gov. Jack Ryan.

270 Anti-Choice Congressman Tim Murphy forced to resign for hostile work environment/harassment and asked his lover to have an abortion.

271 GOP Commissioner Jack Gardner of Millersville, PA was convicted of molesting a 13-year-old girl, pled guilty. 30 years later he’s on the City Commission. See the screenshot, story is in NewsBank.


Screen_Shot_2018-11-01_at_8.00.13_PM.png
272 Lincoln County GOP commissioner and town clerk Merril Robert Barter of Boothbay Harbor - molesting an underage boy while at the State Republican Convention.

273 Michigan GOP Gubernatorial Candidate Bill Schuette. This is what he does on camera! OMG, what does he do when no one is looking?

274 Broward Co Florida GOP Party Secretary Rupert Tarsey attacked a woman, a classmate, with a hammer & they did not force him out of office

275 Republican congressional candidate Denver Riggleman stepped in on Monday to claim that rape and sexual assault can be prevented by “educating females.” Not women, females. Female does not mean human, there are female animals/insects.

It's my wife's & my mother-in-law's favorite. Told me they must've seen it a dozen times between them.

I can count on 1 hand how many times I've been to a movie in my youth, even though it's only a 3 minutes' walk from my family's condo back in my childhood years. It's just not a thing for my parents.... only once a year to the amusement park. But we're free to roam anywhere on our own.