The problem with "Defund the Police" is right there in the name, and its name only. It's understandable that those who lost hope on reforms felt the need to escalate into using the term "Defund."

But uninformed people that don't understand nuance nor care about policies and enforcement would likely judge that's extreme and leads to anarchy immediately, and dismiss its merits. And let's be honest, would you bet there're more informed people in the USA or uninformed ones? If there's ONE thing that USA does better than any other countries, it's politicizing the hell out of complex issues into sound bites. Pushing people into all-or-nothing For or Against camps. In the end, little gets done, but even more divisions & hate.

I watched on the news here in Canada (with its fair share of racial injustices in its policing not that far behind the USA, ) that the mayor of Toronto (our largest city in the country) picked up and used the term "Detask the Police"... I think that's a much better term to advance the cause.

Badly run institution and stupid/uninformed public.

Reform doesnt say enough.

Restart?

Reboot?

Retrain or rehire would help.

Switch it off and back on again. Best fix ever.

*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Friday, June 26th, 2020 8:56pm PDT - promote requested by eric3579.

How about:
“De-Uniform the Police”

The message will never get through, though. We are what we eat, media-wise, and the majority of us consumes our daily-doses from sources only possible from “elites” money/influence. To be sure, that media does not stray from the path, to or fro, so if it’s not in their lexicon, it’s less likely to be in ours as well.

But if one can assume for a moment that there is indeed a rational thought to “Defund the Police”, one may then begin to identify alternatives not previously considered.

Is too much money going unchecked to the Police? Are too many tasks being relegated to police action? Are certain villains entrenched within the ranks? Is reform ever really going to work? Is it just that damned Uniform (play on word “un-informed”)? Or those boots? All of these are valid questions we should each have answers to, and more, if we can just start talking about it finally.

My gripe is about the Police Union, that keep the secrets and perpetuate the misdeeds of “bad apples”, kinda like the clergy has done with their pedos. And the Boy Scouts?

I'll go ahead and say the unpopular truth....we need to not just defund, but disband the police. Fire them all, then allow them to reapply for their jobs, but those with excessive complaints, or any crimes on their record don't get hired back or at a minimum should have to go back to school with no pay, then pass a psychological screening far more stringent than the one they passed originally.
No amount of funding change (which is needed), demilitarization (which only means not making them more militarized, no one's taking their swat tanks or snipers), no amount of public outrage, or chiefs quitting will make a difference if the same criminal cops are still on the force, they need a massive purge and complete culture change or things will not get better.

One other change that I believe will definitely help, remove immunity so criminal cops not only go to prison, but also are first in line to pay restitution for their own crimes out of their own pockets, then once they're bankrupt the union's pockets, and if they both run out of money the city/state comes last in line for obligation to pay. When cops lose everything when they're convicted for abusing their authority, the bad apples will straighten up fast or quit.

Enlightening.

And agreed that "defund" is really bad for marketing.

The cause isn't united either.

Another part of the problem is you have a lot of people like @newtboy who really DO mean defund the police by the dictionary definition. Those folks are mixed in with the protesters who mean 'reform' when they say 'defund'.

That's all to be expected though when you see the systematic failure of the national police force that is out there. When the number of bad actors in the force becomes too many, includes sheriffs and their deputies, and sees various police chiefs and police union leaders(not toe mention Presidents) defending the bad actors, the people that rise up in anger aren't going to be a uniform centrally organized entity.

As Dave Chapelle refers to it, these are the streets speaking for themselves. The public can't be expected to hold a single, uniform and documented solution that they are marching for. It is unfair to the point of dishonesty to try and discredit the protestors as a 'mob' because their calls for reform aren't consistent enough or well messaged enough. The presumably better educated, smarter professionals running the country(from the bottom to the top) are the one's whose job it is to find a good solution. More importantly, it's also their fault for failing to enact solutions to the problem before the public outrage hit the levels it has.

You misread. Please don't speak for me, especially when you're so wrong.

I support both disband the police, which means require all police to go through the hiring process again with those with multiple or serious complaints on their record disqualified or at least forced into retraining and a long probationary period...and I also support defund the police...meaning remove mental health from their job (and fund a mental health department that is sent on mental health calls, normally without police escort), it means the SWAT team is only called after weapons are used, not pre-emptive for non-violent calls, so can be cut in half or less. It means ZERO dollars for military equipment.
It does not mean eradicating the police, it does not mean cut ALL police funding, it means remove the second, third, and fourth hats they wear, remove violent or abusive officers, and cut their funding accordingly.

Mostly I think people want enforceable responsibility, criminal and civil, not immunity. If police had no shield from their actions, they would act better instantly. That's a no brainer and doesn't cost a dime.

Edit: eradicating the police unions would go a long way towards fixing the culture.

I think the demands of the public are more homogeneous than you claim....I know so, since you mischaracterized my position to create an outlier. That said, people do have different ideas of how to fix a problem we seem to agree on....but stripping immunity seems to be nearly universal outside police and Republican senator circles.

The people running the country aren't our best and brightest, they are those narcissistic enough to think they alone can make a difference and those slimy enough to think they can take advantage of an elected position for their personal gain. Trump proves undeniably that they aren't necessarily better educated , smart, or professional.

Apologies, didn't mean to misrepresent you. We've debated things before and you seemed to lean to no cop is a good cop because there are so many bad ones guilt be association and failure to clean things up makes them all bad. You'd also said up thread to fire all active officers.

I'll cease trying to word how you feel on it, I just wanted to demonstrate by counter example that not everybody means 'reform' when they say "defund". At a minimum , the degree of 'reform' varies from change some laws and regulations to fire them and start over from scratch.

My comment of being ruled by our 'betters' was meant as a sarcastic dig on them and their abject failure in letting things rot this far and doing nothing.

Finally, my comment on public opinion on solutions being non-uniform was mostly to emphasize that as just normal, and the current status quo is just so unacceptable that it is unifying people from varied points of view to stand up against it. The most important point being that declaring, see nothing will satisfy the mob because they can't agree what to do is a twisted deception and the truth is people want things to be better than they are, and there is as you pointed out tonnes of common sense ways to go about that,

Thank you....accepted.

The "no good cop" part is right...it's not guilt by association though, it's guilt by being complicit, not turning them in, turning a blind eye, lying to protect the "bad apples"...being accessories after the fact is criminal. Yes, failure to clean their own house makes them bad cops. That's fixable, but only if they clean house...the best, easiest, most thorough way would be fire them all and only reinstate those with clean records, those with complaints need retraining at the least before being police again, many need to be fired. Not perfect, but better than most suggestions imo.
Edit: I do like the suggestion to make it the law that they must intervene if another cop is out of control, and must report it. I also support body cams that can't be turned off, but I want covering them or taking them off to be a felony.

I did say fire them all....but also said to hire them back. That gives us an opportunity to say 'this guy has 27 complaints and 3 multi-million dollar settlements paid out, he's not cop material'. Union rules won't let cops be fired even for cause most times, and absolutely won't allow a national registry of criminal cops. Those facts need to change if the culture is to change.

I agree, there are those few out there advocating no police....I'm just not one of them.

I'm of the opinion that if we keep any of the bad apples, nothing else matters, they'll corrupt the rest. The best way to save the bunch is remove any apples that even LOOK bad....that may leave us with a massive shortage, but that's FAR better than the criminal force we have today, no? One bad apple spoils the bunch...I wish those crying about a just few bad apples understood the phrase they're parsing.

Nothing will satisfy EVERYONE, but it actually takes very little to placate most mobs, just the suggestion that they've been heard is often enough, and why things got so bad. Too often "we hear you" is the only reform, and even that is forgotten as soon as the streets are cleared. I hope this time is different, but I'm not holding my breath.