>> ^Fade:
>> ^spoco2:
The part on 9/11... I have a friend who is SO frigging into the conspiracy theory, and it hinges on the most flimsy of 'evidence', and YES he was a Ron Paul supporter, AND he believes in UFOs..

And the flimsy evidence that Usama Bin Laden and 19 Hijackers did it managed to convince you?
I don't know about you but I didn't see any evidence that proved he/they did anything. Heck even the FBI doesn't think there's enough evidence to connect him to it.


I'm not saying particularly that Bin Laden etc. were responsible. What they are claiming is that the buildings collapsed due to a planned demolition and that the planes hitting the buildings were merely a coverup to hide it. I don't know who brought down the towers other than it was those piloting the aeroplanes into them that did it... having a 767 smashing into it at high speed can do that to a building.

What's wrong with being a Ron Paul supporter. Seems to me if everyone had listened to him in the 80's we wouldn't be in the shit right now.

I know bugger all about his policies really, but I just found it funny that in this video the guy connected the two... and I thought 'hey, yeah, he is an avid supporter of him too'. Nothing against RP, don't know enough to have anything against him.

And UFO's are real. The designation is a fairly normal term. It means unidentified flying object. Not believing in them is like not believing the sun will rise.

Oh, don't get all semantic. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The belief that there is some enourmous coverup that intelligent aliens have landed/crashed here, somehow met ONLY the US government and they are using their tech for weapons research.

I have no doubt there is other life out there, what I don't believe is that they have come here, only been seen by yokels etc. and left it at that. There are SO many things you can see in the sky that can be misconstrued as an alien spacecraft. Until I see incontrivutable proof of, or meet an alien (or ghost for that matter, same deal there) I won't believe in them... there's no proof at ALL that they exist.

>> ^spoco2:
The part on 9/11... I have a friend who is SO frigging into the conspiracy theory, and it hinges on the most flimsy of 'evidence', and YES he was a Ron Paul supporter, AND he believes in UFOs..


And the flimsy evidence that Usama Bin Laden and 19 Hijackers did it managed to convince you?
I don't know about you but I didn't see any evidence that proved he/they did anything. Heck even the FBI doesn't think there's enough evidence to connect him to it.

What's wrong with being a Ron Paul supporter. Seems to me if everyone had listened to him in the 80's we wouldn't be in the shit right now.

And UFO's are real. The designation is a fairly normal term. It means unidentified flying object. Not believing in them is like not believing the sun will rise.

BART spokesman Jim Allison has said the officer's gun went off while police were trying to restrain Grant and that Grant was not cuffed. The unidentified officer is on paid leave as BART investigates the shooting.

Why are cops allowed to lie to the public. If you lied to a cop you could be charged. These are sworn public servants. I think the spokesman and anyone giving false testimony should be thrown in jail. Is Jim Allison aware it should be a crime to give false reports to the public.

Clearly this will be a coverup when they "investigate".

If a cop could mistake the operation of a pistol with a taser, they shouldn't be a cop let only using deadly force.

They tell us we must learn to live with less, and teach our children that their lives will be less full and prosperous than ours have been; that the America of the coming years will be a place where — because of our past excesses — it will be impossible to dream and make those dreams come true. I don't believe that. And, I don't believe you do either. I cannot and will not stand by and see this great country destroy itself. Our leaders attempt to blame their failures on circumstances beyond their control, on false estimates by unknown, unidentifiable experts who rewrite modern history in an attempt to convince us our high standard of living, the result of thrift and hard work, is somehow selfish extravagance which we must renounce as we join in sharing scarcity. I don't agree that our nation must resign itself to inevitable decline, yielding its proud position to other hands. I am totally unwilling to see this country fail in its obligation to itself and to the other free peoples of the world.

--Ronald Reagan

A few interesting bit from http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/12/cnr.04.html

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smile at the camera.

VERONICA DE LA CRUZ: He likes to cuddle and to be petted and take long walks into town. Cropper the fox is even popular with the kids. Unusual behavior for a wild animal, but this friendly fox can't survive in the wild on his own. A disease that affected his memory renders him incapable of hunting or defending himself. So Mike Trowler rescued and nursed cropper back to health, making him his pet, a relationship that took time to develop.

MIKE TROWLER, CROPPER'S OWNER: It started as trust and trust grew to familiarity and familiarity to affection. And now I can do virtually anything with him because he knows he's quite confident that whatever I do is going to be for his pleasure or his benefit. And it's wonderful. It's a superb relationship.

DE LA CRUZ: Looking more like a fur stole than a wild animal, Trowler takes cropper for a walk. He says this fox is like any family's dog or cat with one distinct flaw.

TROWLER: Fox urine has an unfortunate property. You can't wash it off. If you apply water to fox urine, the smell becomes a stench. It's a bit like switching on the amplifier at a disco.

DE LA CRUZ: So while cropper gets to run around the house during the day, Trowler says he does spend each night in this hut in a safe room with a view and the envy of all other foxes. Veronica de la Cruz, CNN, Atlanta.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

I know its supposed to be funny, but my science, why are they treating him so bad? As far as Ive read and heard he has done an awful lot for the US and keeps on trying to do it. The two party system is a real problem IMO. And after all these years he gets called "unidentifiable feces"? Well, he's old now, maybe when he dies they can just send a reporter to pee on his grave...

OMG somthing totally unidentifiable!!! MUST BE NESSIE1 Or a UFO! Or ELVIS!!!

god... people are stupid.

Edit. Okay, let me break it down since I'm so pissed off.

1. There is absolutely NOTHING visible over the water.
2. There is NO WAY that you could say how large whatever is causing that wake is. 45ft? Whatever. Speed estimates? Whatever.
3. To the point above, there is absolutely NOTHING giving scale.
4. The leap from "something" to "nessie" is just an example of how people who WANT to believe in nessie, UFOs, jesus in a coffee stain on a shirt, etc. just see what they WANT to see.

^ You've never been to Thailand, have you?

j/k - yeah, she pretty clearly seems to be a woman, but I've met a few trannies that were truly unidentifiable. And not in southeast Asia. Pittsburgh, actually.

Hey Eklek! Thanks for coming along to the shindig, sure now you get to take your pick of all the wallets and phones and such left around by the revelers! Thanks for saying hi, much appreciated!

In reply to this comment by Eklek:
I was late to the moodonia party in a castle along the Irish coast..cling! (rolling empty bottles of an unidentifiable substance)..
the wind whistling a spooky tune..

Congrats!
I yelled into a corridor..

I was late to the moodonia party in a castle along the Irish coast..cling! (rolling empty bottles of an unidentifiable substance)..
the wind whistling a spooky tune..

Congrats!
I yelled into a corridor..

I was lurking and couldn’t resist posting a response to this deebub81. There is considerably more to Mormon theology than what is currently taught in Sacrament meeting or Sunday School every week. While the doctrinal points you cited from the video may seem salacious, they were not made up out of whole cloth. I will leave you with a few comments and choice quotes from Mormon publications. Many of these publications are available online – including the Journal of Discourses http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/– and I’d encourage you to authenticate the quotes from men Mormons consider inspired oracles of God for yourself.

A brief list of inaccuracies, requested of me on my profile (I don't mean to skip over anything or hide any doctrine. I just didn't want to write an essay. Let me know if you would like me to elaborate on anything.):

-We don't believe in any being higher than God the Father. We worship Him and His son Jesus Christ. Not countless gods.

We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: 'As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.'" (Mormon Prophet Spencer W. Kimball in "Our Great Potential" from the April 1977 Priesthood Session of General Conference

-We don't teach about any unidentified god and his wives.

-We don't teach anything in our doctrine about where God came from or that he lives on a planet with His many wives or "endless Celestial sex."


"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God........yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)

"He [God] is our Father--the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;" (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333)

-Only one God was present at the council spoken of in the video with Lucifer and Jesus. God the Father.

Don’t know about this one.

-Lucifer DID want the glory for himself but he wouldn't have forced us all to become gods. He wanted to force us all to obey.

Agreed

-It was never mormon doctrine that black people were neutral before this life. We don't believe that black people are inferior to white people.


Though he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan. (Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McKonkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp102)


-"White and delightsome" is never used to describe the faithful followers of Jesus in the pre-mortal life. We believe that ALL who live or have lived on Earth, regardless of race or color or religion, were faithful to Jesus Christ's plan and chose to be here.


And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey. (Book of Mormon --2 NEPHI 5:21)


-Adam is not Elohim. He is a child of God, as we all are. Eve was not a godess wife.


How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God ..Then he said, 'I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful. I received my crown and exaltation...I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle...' (Brigham Young, Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873, page 308; Deseret Evening News, June 14, 1873)

-We believe that when Mary gave birth to Jesus, she was still a virgin. We don't teach anything about God having physical sex with her. We don't teach anything about how the miracle was performed, only that Jesus is Begotten of the Father.


"The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Brigham Young -Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 115).

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in THE MOST LITERAL SENSE. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was SIRED by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 6).

-We don't teach any specific doctrine about Jesus' marital status or children. Especially not that he had "at least 3 wives."


"Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, the 'grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was because He had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed Him.' After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master. . . The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, casing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy,. . .a belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus, and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons' " (Jedidiah Grant, Second Counselor to Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 1. ppl 345-346)"

"It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; . . .no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the least of it."

"I will venture to say that if Jesus Christ were now to pass thought the most pious countries in Christendom with a train of women, such as used to follow him, . . .he would be mobbed, tarred, and feathered, and rode, not on as ass, but on a rail."

"At this doctrine the long-faced hypocrite and the sanctimonious bigot will probably cry, blasphemy! . . . Object not, therefore, too strongly against the marriage of Christ." (All the above statements: Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 259-260)

"When Mary of old came to the sepulcher. . .she saw two angels in white. and they said unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She said unto them, Because they have take away my Lord, OR HUSBAND, and I know not where they have laid him." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 210)

". . .we apprehend that even greater troubles than these may arise before mankind learn all the particulars of Christ's incarnation-how and by whom he was begotten; the character of the relationships formed by the act; the number of wives and children he had. . ." (The Millennial Star, Vol 15, page 825)


-We believe that the Nephites and Lamanites are descended from Israelites. Not quite how it's said in the cartoon.

Agreed. Now if we could only locate some of that pre-Columbian Israelite DNA in America…..

-Joseph Smith was not a known treasure seeker. Neither was he known for any tales except his testimony about Mormonism.

Referring to Joseph as a young boy, his mother wrote "During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelings, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them."(Lucy Mack Smith - Joseph's mother, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet 1854)

Joseph most certainly was a treasure seeker. Joseph met Emma while searching for treasure on the property of Josiah Stowell. In 1826, Joseph was taken to court for the crime of ‘glass looking’ which basically amounts to defrauding people into believing you can find buried treasure through a gift of second sight. There is a court document that has been recovered to prove this. Even later, after his ‘prophetic call’ when the Kirtland Safety Society illegal bank he founded was going belly up, he and a group of his inside circle headed back to Salem, Massachusetts to try to bail themselves out by finding a treasure that was supposedly located there. Although there is much to document these activities, interestingly, there is nothing to suggest he ever found anything.

-We believe that we will be judged by Jesus Christ because he was and is perfect, he suffered all, and atoned for our sins.

-I have never been taught that I will be a polygamist god.

While church leaders no longer allow the practice of polygamy here on Earth, they do allow a living man to be sealed to another woman after the death of his wife, or after divorce. This leads to the obvious situation of establishing multiple sealings on Earth that, according to Mormonism, will necessitate polygamy in heaven.

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266).

Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).

Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants- the revelation on polygamy remains canonized scripture. The practice of polygamy was suspended on earth, but will be standard practice in the Celestial Kingdom (heaven).

-Joseph Smith himself never claimed anything about doing more for us than any other man.

-We absolutely do not believe that Joseph Smith did more for us than any other man, including Jesus Christ.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (Joseph Smith sermon, May 26, 1844)

The video was obviously designed to be as scandalous as possible, but just because something puts your religion in a bad light, do not assume it is untrue.

>> ^lesserfool:
In reply to this comment by Pprt:
[...]
I'm asking anyone who questions the USA's action: do you think your armed forces exist to harm you... or to protect you?
The armed forces exist to protect US interests. This doesn't mean that they always do that in effect. It also does not mean that they are making me safer.


As I said in my original post, lesserfool, the US is at war with people who don't wear a uniform. They are unidentifiable.

The conception of "war" must change. We aren't in WWI trenches with bayonets here, we're dealing with anonymous individuals operating in frequently independent cells. At times, extraordinary measures must be taken in order to gather information from detainees. Logically, it may be worth the risk to harm an innocent man than to permit the death of dozens of innocents.

Undoubtedly, some sadists have been put into circumstances when they have abused their authority, and they are not without accountability. Martial law is usually more severe than civilian.

Soldiers and those who have chosen a military volition are willing to sacrifice their lives for their country and for you. I return to my original question: do you trust that your military force is working for you, or against you?

A brief list of inaccuracies, requested of me on my profile (I don't mean to skip over anything or hide any doctrine. I just didn't want to write an essay. Let me know if you would like me to elaborate on anything.):

-We don't believe in any being higher than God the Father. We worship Him and His son Jesus Christ. Not countless gods.

-We don't teach about any unidentified god and his wives.

-We don't teach anything in our doctrine about where God came from or that he lives on a planet with His many wives or "endless Celestial sex."

-Only one God was present at the council spoken of in the video with Lucifer and Jesus. God the Father.

-Lucifer DID want the glory for himself but he wouldn't have forced us all to become gods. He wanted to force us all to obey.

-It was never mormon doctrine that black people were neutral before this life. We don't believe that black people are inferior to white people.

-"White and delightsome" is never used to describe the faithful followers of Jesus in the pre-mortal life. We believe that ALL who live or have lived on Earth, regardless of race or color or religion, were faithful to Jesus Christ's plan and chose to be here.

-Adam is not Elohim. He is a child of God, as we all are. Eve was not a godess wife.

-We believe that when Mary gave birth to Jesus, she was still a virgin. We don't teach anything about God having physical sex with her. We don't teach anything about how the miracle was performed, only that Jesus is Begotten of the Father.

-We don't teach any specific doctrine about Jesus' marital status or children. Especially not that he had "at least 3 wives."

-We believe that the Nephites and Lamanites are descended from Israelites. Not quite how it's said in the cartoon.

-Joseph Smith was not a known treasure seeker. Neither was he known for any tales except his testimony about Mormonism.

-We believe that we will be judged by Jesus Christ because he was and is perfect, he suffered all, and atoned for our sins.

-I have never been taught that I will be a polygamist god.

-Joseph Smith himself never claimed anything about doing more for us than any other man.

-We absolutely do not believe that Joseph Smith did more for us than any other man, including Jesus Christ.

-We believe that Jesus Christ was the only perfect being ever to live on the Earth and that His Atonement is the most important thing ever done here.

This kid should work for NASA. "Sir, we have something unidentifiable on screen," "ITs A WOCKET SHIT"

31. To have or to hold?

32. How many short lolcats is a good free documentary on the sift worth?

33. Education by life or by indoctrination?

34. Do you believe in Unidentified flying objects or have they ALL been identified?