I thought outward bound was for “troubled teens”….getting them away from the bad influences in their daily life and into nature where they can’t do drugs or steal anything under strict rules enforced by tough drill sergeant types.….no?

bravo for this kid stating a very serious issue with teaching and one i agree with but i think his ire may be directed at the wrong person as @Yogi suggested and @JiggaJonson implied.

i substituted for a brief span a few years ago.
the reason my time was brief was not due to the kids,they were fantastic but rather it was the draconian and administrative bullshit i had to put up with.the school system was not looking for a substitute "teacher" but a babysitter.a warm body to sit in class and watch kids become catatonic. reading "packets" and qwell any form of disruption.

i was "officially reprimanded" three times due to actually engaging the classes i was substituting.my crime was not the fact i was covering material the absent teacher had already gone over recently but rather that i was talking and engaging the students.

seriously? it still boggles my mind.the teachers who i covered were appreciative of my efforts but the school only wanted me to keep the seat warm.

interestingly enough,those very same teachers convinced me to volunteer my time to tutor troubled teens who are constantly in ISS (in school suspension).thanks to a new principal who helped push through the massive paperwork and help from these teachers this may become an actual program.we have enlisted two more teachers who have come out of retirement and hope to have more tutors soon who are willing to donate their time.

the irony in all this is that the we (the tutors) have huge latitude in how we teach these troubled teens while vetted teachers have huge restrictions.

so generally speaking:its not the teachers.its the system.

>> ^Porksandwich:

Does Finland schooling system provide anything but education and the facilities and meals related to keeping a large group of people for hours on end?
Do they do tutoring?
How do they handle discipline?
Do they offer sports teams and fields, etc as part of the school budget?
Uniforms?
Field trips?
Music/band?
Im hoping to hear from @CreamK on this.
Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.


There's tutoring for students that are falling behind, it's personal one-on-one and there's a multiple programs to help students who have problems, like specail ed or for troubled teens. I actually went on one these troubled youth programs. I never had any learning problems in school, in fact i was always so much ahead in classes that i got bored and started to get in to problems and skipping A LOT.. But when they finally managed to get me in to this special class, i've never enjoyed school that much.. I did two years of math in half a year and got free choice of what to do instead of math.. I either got a free hour or i picked up another subject like literacy and the best part of it was that i choosed what to do..

Discipline is there, you got many levels of it. Mostly it's handled in conjunction with parents. Detention, personal tutoring or changing to a smaller group, workshops where you can fix bikes and learn sciences with more hands on approaches etc. Mostly it's not a punishment as such but personalized programs to tailored to fit for the needs. Expulsions are very rare, in my school years i heard of two incidences and both were changed to smaller group where they both stopped skipping school in two weeks time. Those smaller groups consists of one teacher per 5 students or even less..

No sport teams are provided by schools, they are handled by sport teams junior programs. There is of course 1-2 hour classes per week for sports but it's more to do with learning to enjoy excercise than competing.

No uniforms or mandatory dressing codes. There is the basic decency expected when it comes to dressing and one peculiar code is that you are not allowed to wear a hat in class... Those baseball caps can hide your eyes... I know, it's a bit strange..

Field trips: yes, there are both provided by the school and then longer ones where the students do bake sales etc to gather money and those are voluntary.

Music is a subject and schools can provide the means to do them more in your own free time. The bands are not a part of schools but usually every city has one or to schools that concentrate more for those programs. It means a few extra hours but provide a good base for secondary musical education institutes where you can enroll at young age. Those institutions are publicly funded too and work in conjuction with all levels schools and they continue seamlessly to provide education for music teachers and professionals up to master degrees. You can go to those schools when you're grown up too and they have a tuitions, in the range of 100-200€ per class. So once again, money is not a hurdle for education.

It's been a years when i was in basic school, i graduated in 1989 and went to secondary school in 1991. That was about the time when the education reform was moving to that state too so i had to mixed field of teachers. Some were not up to job and some were just wonderful personalities. Now adays it's up to standards too and in fact, i'm enrolling in one next fall to finish up my graduation..

The downside of Finnish system is that you can not even get a job as a cleaner without finishing some sort of courses for it.. So even for basic shitty jobs you need a basic education in that field... But since those are basically free of charge (some require a 100-200€ fee, not a problem...) everyone has a chance. Also when you get a better job the companies often provide the follow-up studies that fit to that job description. The cost of those are divided by the goverment and the companies.

Very well done. Kudos to your researchivity.>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^xxovercastxx:
>> ^ChaosEngine:
Aside from the fact that you have provided no citations for this data
Since he was kind enough to copy/paste the typo ("10 Divorce, in turn") it was extremely easy to track his source down.
http://www.troubledteens.co
m/information-and-statistics/troubled-teens-statistics-teen-help-for-troubled-teens.html

And they got it from "Heritage.org (A conservative / Republican "Think Tank")" to quote directly from that page, who got it from Joan R. Kahn and Kathryn A. London, "Premarital Sex and the Risk of Divorce," Journal of Marriage and the Family. Shame they didn't finish reading the paper they cited, or they would have seen this conclusion:
"However, when the analysis controls for unobserved characteristics affecting both the likelihood of having premarital sex and the likelihood of divorce, the differential is no longer statistically significant. These results suggest that the positive relationship between premarital sex and the risk of divorce can be attributed to prior unobserved differences (e.g., the willingness to break traditional norms) rather than to a direct causal effect. "
Booyah! Research sources ftw!

>> ^xxovercastxx:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Aside from the fact that you have provided no citations for this data
Since he was kind enough to copy/paste the typo ("10 Divorce, in turn") it was extremely easy to track his source down.
http://www.troubledteens.co
m/information-and-statistics/troubled-teens-statistics-teen-help-for-troubled-teens.html


And they got it from "Heritage.org (A conservative / Republican "Think Tank")" to quote directly from that page, who got it from Joan R. Kahn and Kathryn A. London, "Premarital Sex and the Risk of Divorce," Journal of Marriage and the Family. Shame they didn't finish reading the paper they cited, or they would have seen this conclusion:

"However, when the analysis controls for unobserved characteristics affecting both the likelihood of having premarital sex and the likelihood of divorce, the differential is no longer statistically significant. These results suggest that the positive relationship between premarital sex and the risk of divorce can be attributed to prior unobserved differences (e.g., the willingness to break traditional norms) rather than to a direct causal effect. "

Booyah! Research sources ftw!

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Aside from the fact that you have provided no citations for this data

Since he was kind enough to copy/paste the typo ("10 Divorce, in turn") it was extremely easy to track his source down.

http://www.troubledteens.com/information-and-statistics/troubled-teens-statistics-teen-help-for-troubled-teens.html

>> ^videosiftbannedme:
I don't see how the kid being a little leaguer and member of his church youth group have anything to do with this "news" story.
Present the facts, not rhetoric.


Part of the disputed facts of the Columbine kids is that they were fairly reclusive and not really engaged in the community, estranged alienated youth. This child was engaged in regular kid social groups and norms. It isn't rhetoric but very conditional information about how he doesn't fit the profile at all of a "troubled teen", which is what that law was trying to help fight against.

And seriously, a knife? Are we going to shelter kids SO much now a days that a knife, any knife, is now a deadly weapon. How are the youth of tomorrow going to prepare food?

It's your body, if you want it cut off that's your choice. Before you do, can I play with it a little bit? If you're not gonna use it anyway..?

This is why I hang out at places where troubled teens go to kill themselves.



I think I'm sharing too much again...