@WKB

True, but when the Columbine school shooting was perpetrated, conservatives were quick to point the finger at Marilyn Manson's lyrics. I'm not saying they were right, and I'm not saying that Fox deserves all of the blame here either.

I do think though, that the people pumping that kind of rhetoric onto the airwaves deserve SOME responsibility for atrocities like this. Allow me to compare the Woodstock of 1970 to the Woodstock of '99 for an example.

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>>>>>>The 1970 Woodstock (billed as "3 days of Peace and Music") resulted in reports like this:

"The New York Times covered the prelude to the festival and the move from Wallkill to Bethel.[13] Barnard Collier, who reported from the event for the Times, asserts that he was pressured by on-duty editors at the paper to write a misleadingly negative article about the event. According to Collier, this led to acrimonious discussions and his threat to refuse to write the article until the paper's executive editor, James Reston, agreed to let him write the article as he saw fit. The eventual article dealt with issues of traffic jams and minor lawbreaking, but went on to emphasize cooperation, generosity, and the good nature of the festival goers.

When the festival was over, Collier wrote another article about the exodus of fans from the festival site and the lack of violence at the event. The chief medical officer for the event and several local residents were quoted as praising the festival goers."

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>>>>>>The 1999 version of the event (featuring bands like Metallica, Rage Against the Machine, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock and the Red Hot Chili Peppers who are all, dare I say, a bit angrier [lyrically speaking] than the likes of Arlo Guthrie or Joan Baez) is painted in a much different color:

"Some crowd violence and looting was reported during the Saturday night performance by Limp Bizkit, including a rendition of the song "Break Stuff". Reviewers of the concert criticized Limp Bizkit frontman Fred Durst as "irresponsible" for encouraging the crowd to destructive behavior.

Violence escalated the next night during the final hours of the concert as Red Hot Chili Peppers performed. A group of peace promoters led by an independent group called Pax had distributed candles to those stopping at their booth during the day, intending them for a candlelight vigil to be held during the Red Hot Chili Peppers' performance of the song "Under the Bridge". During the band's set, the crowd began to light the candles, some also using them to start bonfires. The hundreds of empty plastic water bottles that littered the lawn/dance area were used as fuel for the fire.

After the Red Hot Chili Peppers were finished with their main set, the audience was informed about "a bit of a problem." An audio tower caught fire, and the fire department was called in to extinguish it.

Back onstage for an encore, the Chili Peppers' lead singer Anthony Kiedis remarked how amazing the fires looked from the stage, comparing them to a scene in the film Apocalypse Now.[12] The band proceeded to play "Sir Psycho Sexy", followed by their rendition of Jimi Hendrix's "Fire". Kiedis later stated in his autobiography, Scar Tissue that Jimi Hendrix's sister had asked the Chili Peppers to play "Fire" in honor of Jimi and his performance at the original Woodstock festival, and that they were not playing it to encourage the crowd.

Many large bonfires were burning high before the band left the stage for the last time. Participants danced in circles around the fires. Looking for more fuel, some tore off panels of plywood from the supposedly inviolable security perimeter fence. ATMs were tipped over and broken into, trailers full of merchandise and equipment were forced open and burglarized, and abandoned vendor booths were turned over, and set afire.[13]

MTV, which had been providing live coverage, removed its entire crew. MTV host Kurt Loder described the scene in the July 27, 1999 issue of USA Today:

"It was dangerous to be around. The whole scene was scary. There were just waves of hatred bouncing around the place, (...) It was clear we had to get out of there.... It was like a concentration camp. To get in, you get frisked to make sure you're not bringing in any water or food that would prevent you from buying from their outrageously priced booths. You wallow around in garbage and human waste. There was a palpable mood of anger."

After some time, a large force of New York State Troopers, local police, and various other law enforcement arrived. Most had crowd control gear and proceeded to form a riot-line that flushed the crowd to the northwest, away from the stage located at the eastern end of the airfield. Few of the crowd offered strong resistance and they dispersed quickly back toward the campground and out the main entrance."

>>>>>>See also, this poignant response from a person in the crowd: http://newsroom.mtv.com/2009/08/17/woodstock-legacy/ (crowdmember comments @ 2:20)

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Now now easy there big fella, before you start telling me about how correlation does not imply causation consider this: an article recently published by the American Journal of Psychiatry concluded that:

"Childhood exposure to parental verbal aggression was associated, by itself, with moderate to large effects on measures of dissociation, limbic irritability, depression, and anger-hostility." Furthermore, "Combined exposure to verbal abuse and witnessing of domestic violence was associated with extraordinarily large adverse effects, particularly on dissociation. This finding is consonant with studies that suggest that emotional abuse may be a more important precursor of dissociation than is sexual abuse."
See: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/163/6/993

Maybe not the best example I could have found but I've already spent WAY too much time on this post. The point is, WORDS carry a lot of power. Even if the pundits (right OR left) never came out and said it, the implication of violence was certainly there at times.

I KNOW Fox has lead the charge of fear mongering in the name of ratings but anyone else who subscribed to that level of attack should share some of the blame as well. Again, not saying that they should take all or even a lot of the blame, but they should be responsible for the violent laced rhetoric they spout.

I say STOP THE AD HOMINEM ATTACKS and we'll see less violence against PEOPLE and (hopefully) more enthralling arguments where the IDEAS are being attacked (which I'm all for) :-)

p.s. sry for the huge post but i was on a roll

I thought that was the 9 day Chinese traffic jam.

>> ^quantumushroom:

So gay "marriage" is harmless, eh? The activists conveniently leave out the part about dancing gay maneagles causing traffic jams.


You seem to be implying that that wouldn't be awesome.

So gay "marriage" is harmless, eh? The activists conveniently leave out the part about dancing gay maneagles causing traffic jams.

Under the Videosift 1.0-ish guidelines, we'd remove it.

Under the revised guidelines, only if you saw someone, say, being ejected and obviously mutilated would we do so - or, to continue with the macabre, heard their screams of agony as they were about to die, for example.

Borderline, but acceptable under the FAQ.

Absolutley horrific. *fear here.

I've ridden in those coaches - definitely a smart PSA-style vid, official or not - the traffic jams there are sudden and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this happen given the mad way they pilot them through - everything.

>> ^Shepppard:
>> ^entr0py:
From the FAQ:
"Note: The presence of human fatality is acceptable and not considered "snuff" if presented as a limited portion of a lengthy educational, informative news report or documentary. Our definition of "snuff" does include but is not exclusive to any short clip in which a human fatality occurs whether or not any victims are actually visible on camera."
So; short clip, no narration or context, with fatalities, shown apparently for no reason other than entertainment. Seems to fit perfectly. If anyone can find a link to the news reports I think it should be removed.

I'd prefer to talk about this a bit more before removing it.
Yes, it's a horrific accident, and although I haven't searched myself yet, I'll accept that due to the nature of this accident 4 people most likely did unfortunately pass.
However, as it stands now, We don't know if they died instantly, or of they died of complications later en route to, or in a hospital.
If that's the case, I don't think this would be classified as snuff.
Should evidence be presented to the contrary, even though it's not graphic it is still fitting the FAQ description.

*LMFAHS *QUALITY *LMFAHS

"
- An old man turned 98. He won the lottery and died the next day of a shock-induced heart attack.
- It's a black fly in your Chardonnay going to celebrate your apartment fumigation.
- It's a death row pardon 2 minutes too late because the Governor was busy watching Dead Man Walking.
- It's like rain at a dehydration victim's funeral.
- It's a free ride to your bankruptcy trial.
- It's good advice to never listen to me.
- ...as his plane crashed down he thought "Now I'll never make it to that Fear of Flying seminar."
- It's like rain flooding an umbrella factory.
- It's a free ride to an over-priced car dealership.
- It's the good advice from the guy who just got you fired.
- Traffic jam when you're already late to receive an award for reducing automobile congestion.
- A "No Smoking" sign on your cigarette break at the RJ Reynolds tobacco company.
- It's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife from a soup kitchen.
- It's like meeting the man of my dreams and then meeting his beautiful wife who's also my relationship therapist.
- It's like rain on your wedding day to the Egyptian sun god Ra.
- It's a free ride when you've already paid for a stolen car.
- It's good advice someone advised you not to take.
- I have a funny way of defining rhetorical devices that I use in songs.
- I have a funny way of getting things wrong.
"

what a beautiful lady you are!

my brother spent 8 years as an army intelligence officer. one of his friends got deployed while his wife stayed back home pregnant. she was astranged from her own family, so my brother took on the role of her birth coach and support while her husband was away. she went into the labor a few weeks early. she called my brother, he rushed from work at the base to go and pick her up and head to the hospital they thought they had at least a few hours ahead of them. on the way they got stuck in traffic. jam. stuck. san antonio traffic is a beast. he pulled over, called the ambulance and hopped in the backseat with her. when the ambulance finally arrived the babies head was out. the paramedics took over just in time and my brother who has no children of his own and is terrified of anything medical, literally goes into shock whenever he gets an iv, quietly hyperventilated while they got mommy and baby stablized and into the ambulance. they rode off the hospital mommy and baby were fine and well and my brother accidentally helped deliver a beautiful healthy baby boy in the back of his convertible. yayayayay!!!!

and yeah, id say there is an information vacuum when it comes to what your birthing options are.
both of my children were born at the hospital i worked out and we had excellent care and a fabulous doctor. but i think if i ever do it again id like to have a midwife and a doula with more natural pain control options, especially since neither of my epidurals took and i had a really really bad pain control experience with my first child.

That's the A2, Germany's most important east-west traverse, infamous for traffic jams and accidents and with one of the highest volumes of traffic in this country. This was actually 73 different accidents involving a total of 259 cars, 66 injured, 21 severly, 10 life threatening, none dead so far. It happened within 20 minutes over a 30km stretch between Peine and Braunschweig.

The video said that rain is supposed to be the cause, but that's not all. It was a combination of the sudden onset of heavy rain, the setting sun and dark black tar on the road itself. In some circumstances, you literally can't see shit on the A2 east of Hannover thanks to that bloody tar, because it reflects just about everything.

And yes, people drive like loonies. Everyone has his/her vice and that's ours.

PS: I marked the stretch of Autobahn via Google Maps if anyone wants to take a look: link

>> ^MINK:
the problem here is the stupid road designers who make a big white line down the middle and say you can't cross it, even if your side is totally full and the other is empty.
there would be no traffic jam here if 3 lanes were open to the traffic going in the most popular direction.


You do know that traffic moves in the other direction after work is over, right?

Do they have enough cars in NK to make a traffic jam?

Unclogging the world's traffic jams. Now that's something to aspire to!

By the way, my reasonable solution to the problem is to have everyone STOP KILLING EACH OTHER. Killing people isn't doing a damn bit of good, and if everyone stopped then no one would be killed anymore. But that's like telling everyone in a traffic jam to just accelerate all at the same time at the same rate. Ain't gonna happen.

Once people have stopped killing each other, though, then discussions can start happening for real. Forget everything that happened in the past because there's no hope in sorting it out. Start over. If it takes a thousand years to come to an agreement, at least it would be a thousand years without people dieing pointlessly. Everyone could put their efforts into living better lives instead of killing each other, and by the time a thousand years rolls around people will be living so well they'll have totally forgotten all this bullshit going on right now. There won't be as much distinction between Palestinians and Israelis by that time, either... interracial breeding and genetics will take care of that over time.

The other option is to attempt to totally wipe out every single person on earth who disagrees with you. Best of luck.

As an Arizonan, I can tell you McCain is a pretty good guy. He's done a lot of good, and actually has been a "maverick" and "reached across party lines" often. Unfortunately, as soon as he won the republican nomination you could almost see the strings pulling him. Everything from then, until Nov. 4th was completely unlike himself. It's been painfully clear McCain was just another puppet, dancing to the tune of the right. I think it's obvious he's just as relieved as the rest of us that he lost. He would've followed that pied piper straight to his lonely, stressful grave. A grave I fear Cindy would've helped Palin dance on. This speech is the most like himself he's sounded for over a year. I don't think the republicans wanted him to lose, I think he himself wanted to lose.

And I think he's just as disgusted as the rest of us about the "Boo"-ing of our new President. Fucking despicable.

On a side note: I live pretty much down the street from the Biltmore Resort where this 'celebration' was. My girlfriend and I walked over to a restaurant in the mall adjacent to the Biltmore for dinner on the 4th and the police presence was incredible. They pretty much blocked off every street in the area, causing a traffic jam for at least an hour on the main road (Camelback) and screaming at any civilian who approached their motorcycles. We even had to trample some Bushes just to get around three motorcycle cops who decided to park and talk on the sidewalk we used to get home. When I heard Obama was holding his celebration in a public park in Chi town I thought that pretty much illustrated the difference between these two candidates.

Side side note: A place on the corner opposite the Biltmore named Oscar Taylor that has a predominantly black customer base was partying into the wee hours. Shouting to the crowds gathered to watch McCain's motorcade go by, "Vote Obama!!!" It was pretty awesome.

Flight. I live in LA and now I'm just going to be more depressed when I'm stuck on the 405 that I can't fly.

Notably being invisible in a traffic jam would be humorous as well.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
The proper reaction would be to escort the man to the hospital and let his wife take the dog in while the husband a receives speeding ticket.
Maybe karma will put his ambulance in a traffic jam when he accidentally shoots himself in the chest.


You would wish death on a man just because he let a dog die? Maybe you need to check your priorities.

Oldnavy: "t kills me that some claim to love their dog but in the same sentence talk about it as if it was an inanimate object."

No, they're not talking about it as an inanimate object. He talks about it as what it is: an animal. He realizes that a dog can never be more important than a human life.

Thinker: " the cop was a prick for not understanding the man's state of mind"

Actually, you're wrong. The cop plainly stated he understands what's going on in his mind. And did you miss the fact that he coupled that with NOT arresting him for evading police?

Crosswords: See above^^

Ryjkyj: You would seriously kill another human because you DOG died? Check your priorities.