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Asimov on superstition, religion, and rationality

newtboy says...

I love the sideburns.

I'm pretty certain he would be happy to be in that group of deep thinkers instead of one with dumb ass Elvis, the anti drug-pill popper.

Religious people cannot be wholly logical, belief in the unseen unproven physically impossible and largely disproven and debunked supernatural is not logical or rational. (1) Putting your faith in the unproven is irrational and illogical, then using that misguided belief as a cudgel to berate others as +-99% of religious people do is just evil. Way worse than justifying military weapons in the name of science (which isn't reality, btw), it uses belief in the irrational and unprovable to justify USING those weapons on innocent populations, often for believing in the wrong irrational and unprovable supernatural ideas.
The worst atheist ape is more rational than the best believer, and on average around 10* more pleasant to talk with. They won't ever tell you all the ridiculous reasons you're going to hell, unless they're arguing directly from the theist's dogma and not reality....I often slam anti gay religious people for the much worse sin of mowing on Sunday, wearing cotton poly blends, or eating shellfish....but I don't believe it or even pretend to.

There's a logical explanation for Trump....think about how intollerably stupid, self centered, and irrational the average person is....now realize the truth that 1/2 are stupider, more self centered, and more irrational than that....add in the fact Trump lost by >3000000 votes but won the electoral college anyway, and boom, it makes sense. Maddening, soul crushing sense.

X-Secret devil sign on my forehead and spit twice, like Dio's mother taught him.

(1) That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

noseeem said:

so what the logic behind those sideburns?

just let it all grow. save on shaving gear. as a writer, he'd fit in more with Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, or Whitman* than Elvis.

on a different angle, the atheist apes can be worse than J.W., Mormons, and Evangelist badgers. if a person wants to believe in a higher power - so what? they can get through their days as serenely as the true science maven. religious people can be logical, brilliant, and still put faith in the unproven. no worse than justifying military weapons in the name of science.

after all, having experienced this president, am pushed to believe in True Evil yet simultaneously believing there is no GOD.

no logic or reason to it other than he is a magical troll, and has cast a spell on the townspeople.

X-- (cross and spit twice)

*or perhaps, Darwin as a science writer

Michelle Obama Says "Thanks Obama" To Her Husband

StukaFox says...

Dear TrumpTards,

What you just heard is called "Class". I know you're unfamiliar with it, so maybe listen to that a few more times. Perhaps you'll get it. After all, someone taught a Border Collie to count to eight, and a Border Collie is only twice as smart and 10 times as lovable as you!

Best of luck!

Samuel L. Jackson Bashes Trump Supporters

BSR says...

I think you just taught him a lesson. 🧠

That's the trouble with dribbles.

newtboy said:

Bob, you also don't know what the words "dribble" and "drivel" mean.
I don't think you really meant to call him out for traveling.
Again, ask the boss to upgrade your Russian to English translation program.

Sky Brown the 12 year old girl and her mega ramp

SFOGuy says...

My wife has taught me that I'm not good enough at ANYTHING in life to try and teach it to her lol

newtboy said:

Ha!
... I made the unrecoverable mistake of trying to teach my wife to ski around 15 years back when we were 35ish. ...

Is Success Luck or Hard Work? | Veritasium

newtboy says...

Subscribe to what you want, my birth lottery included trees and butterflies, I was raised in a forest in a glass house in a forest. (We had an atrium inside with a forest of trees growing through the roof, and the house was in the middle of a forest)

If I were born black, that person would be me, but I would be different. Besides, I was born a poor black child, sir. ;-)

If my starting line is 50 meters ahead of yours in a 100 yard dash through nothing but luck, that's pretty lucky for me.

I feel pretty successful having made little effort to get there, that's luck.

I don't feel shame because I'm not a normal American that thinks anything they want is something they deserve and need. Best lesson my dad ever taught me was know the difference between want and need and you'll be far happier in life. It's true.

I don't have too much, I have enough, but I still share with those who i feel don't. I've housed multiple friends for free, and even let one live in my yard for 7 years, which in retrospect was at least 5 years too many. My wife and I live comfortably on <$30000 a year. Most Americans can't live on that for one person. Newts do just fine, we take a vacation every year, pay our bills, and eat well.
Maybe that's why I'm so different. I was allowed to roam the wild woods and bayou alone at just over 3, to the point where the neighbors told my parents they were going to call the cops. This was in the middle of Houston, literally a wilderness of (or at least in) modern civilization. ;-)

I did go to school for 24 years (preschool -the ten year plan at Jr college) but never tried hard or practiced, to the point where my trig teacher insisted I was cheating because I didn't pay attention or do homework so she separated me for a big test, the class average dropped a full grade but not me, my neighbors were cheating off me. She left me alone after that. That might be preparations, but it wasn't hard work. It was boring busy work.

I did that, read encyclopedias and dictionaries. That was punishment at my school through 7th grade....but my grandmother read her set through twice for fun. My mother was called "the encyclopedia" in school, with good reason.

I definitely let opportunities pass often. Sometimes because I don't need them and others might, sometimes I'm just lazy and happy so see no need to expend effort, usually because I see opportunities as traps, the bait being some modest short term gain, the cage being large long term obligations. I'm always prepared for opportunities that are for me without preparation. I'm not Trumpian, I understand I have limitations, and don't tend to obligate myself beyond them.

Who said I waited. I've been lucky enough that I didn't have to wait for, nor do I expect luck. Through luck, forethought, and decent planning things have worked out well with minimal effort or sacrifice. I don't rely on luck to dig me out of holes, I tend to watch my step and not fall in them often. You might call that preparation, I call it paying attention. It's working so far.

vil said:

I dont subscribe to weird oriental religions which presume being born is a lottery that possibly includes trees and butterflies.

Every person is born to a set of parents into a particular time and place and socio-economic position. That is what defines who you are. You cant say "if I was born black" because that would not be you.

That is not luck, that is your starting line. You race from there, that is where YOU start rolling the dice and having good or bad luck.

You may consider yourself lucky to be who you are and where you are, indeed you may feel some first world shame for being so fortunate, but that is surely superfluous, if you have too much you can offer to help other people.

Humans (unlike newts) need preparation, after you are born you need to practice for many years before you can be let out into the wilderness of modern civilization with any hope of surviving, let alone passing tests.

You remind me of my son, he spent his childhood reading encyclopedias and now he is surprised that he knows everything and other people dont. It came easy to him.

I did not have to work hard most of the time, am doing fine, got most of what I have because I was lucky, but I sure had a lot of opportunities run away from me because I wasnt prepared for them. Also got burned by a lot of things I should have been prepared for.

Waiting for luck is good only if you run out of options to do something.

English is dumb

BSR says...

Anguish Languish
(English Language)

https://www.crockford.com/anguish.html#Ladle%20Rat%20Rotten%20Hut

--------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh90razD6p4

Ladle Rat Rotten Hut
(Little Red Riding Hood)

Wants pawn term dare worsted ladle gull hoe lift wetter murder inner ladle cordage honor itch offer lodge, dock, florist. Disk ladle gull orphan worry putty ladle rat cluck wetter ladle rat hut, an fur disk raisin pimple colder Ladle Rat Rotten Hut.

Wan moaning Ladle Rat Rotten Hut's murder colder inset.

"Ladle Rat Rotten Hut, heresy ladle basking winsome burden barter an shirker cockles. Tick disk ladle basking tutor cordage offer groin-murder hoe lifts honor udder site offer florist. Shaker lake! Dun stopper laundry wrote! Dun stopper peck floors! Dun daily-doily inner florist, an yonder nor sorghum-stenches, dun stopper torque wet strainers!"

"Hoe-cake, murder," resplendent Ladle Rat Rotten Hut, an tickle ladle basking an stuttered oft.

Honor wrote tutor cordage offer groin-murder, Ladle Rat Rotten Hut mitten anomalous woof.

"Wail, wail, wail!" set disk wicket woof, "Evanescent Ladle Rat Rotten Hut! Wares are putty ladle gull goring wizard ladle basking?"

"Armor goring tumor groin-murder's," reprisal ladle gull. "Grammar's seeking bet. Armor ticking arson burden barter an shirker cockles."

"O hoe! Heifer gnats woke," setter wicket woof, butter taught tomb shelf, "Oil tickle shirt court tutor cordage offer groin-murder. Oil ketchup wetter letter, an den—O bore!"

Soda wicket woof tucker shirt court, an whinny retched a cordage offer groin-murder, picked inner windrow, an sore debtor pore oil worming worse lion inner bet. Inner flesh, disk abdominal woof lipped honor bet, paunched honor pore oil worming, an garbled erupt. Den disk ratchet ammonol pot honor groin-murder's nut cup an gnat-gun, any curdled ope inner bet.

Inner ladle wile, Ladle Rat Rotten Hut a raft attar cordage, an ranker dough ball. "Comb ink, sweat hard," setter wicket woof, disgracing is verse.

Ladle Rat Rotten Hut entity bet rum, an stud buyer groin-murder's bet.

"O Grammar!" crater ladle gull historically, "Water bag icer gut! A nervous sausage bag ice!"

"Battered lucky chew whiff, sweat hard," setter bloat-Thursday woof, wetter wicket small honors phase.

"O, Grammar, water bag noise! A nervous sore suture anomalous prognosis!"

"Battered small your whiff, doling," whiskered dole woof, ants mouse worse waddling.

"O Grammar, water bag mouser gut! A nervous sore suture bag mouse!"

Daze worry on-forger-nut ladle gull's lest warts. Oil offer sodden, caking offer carvers an sprinkling otter bet, disk hoard-hoarded woof lipped own pore Ladle Rat Rotten Hut an garbled erupt.

MURAL: Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet strainers.

Only in Toledo

StukaFox says...

Bob,

Here's where we agree on something.

I came from amazing wealth, like total top .01%, then lost everything and ended up in absolute poverty. I taught myself a valuable skill and kept building and building on it. It started with shit jobs, but I kept learning and doing more and never stopped believing in myself or in my ability to better my circumstance. I went to college and learned how to learn more efficiently. Even now, I'm improving my skills on a daily basis. 40 years later, now I'm in the 1%.

This is America to me, one part of it: that in America, you at least have a chance -- however small, however improbable -- to better yourself through your own skills, drive and determination. It's not a 100% guarantee, but I honestly haven't seen another country that fosters this attitude.

For the nb, did I have a leg up? Definitely. I was born with an extraordinary mind into a hyper-affluent family. As a child I went to the best public schools in America during a time when education was valued above all else. By the time my mom and I were basically on the street, I had enough base knowledge to build on what I'd already learned. I also took advantage of community college when it was all but free ($50 a semester) and was able to take pretty much any class that interested me. I was also able to afford a computer when they were very expensive and complicated.

Finally, I was born a white male and caught innumerable breaks because of that. I have zero doubt that I am where I am in part to this accident of birth, because I was told by cops, teachers and employers, sometimes quite openly and sometimes in coded language, that I was preferred over non-white people.

For all America's sin -- and many be thy score -- the nucleus of true capitalism is still alive.

bobknight33 said:

Capitalism.
See an opportunity that uses you skills and go for it.

Police Who Murder Man In Public On Camera Fired

StukaFox says...

Newt, you've already lost.

You didn't lose with Trump in 2016, but with California's Prop 13 in 1978.

The goal of the Neocon movement was to decimate American public education because they knew that an educated population would never vote for the kind of shit they were selling, and because teachers (being educated and all) were a powerful Democratic voting block. Defunding public education was a win/win for them.

It worked beautifully.

The teacher's unions were starved. Public schooling imploded. We went from the most educated populace in the world to the point where 50% of the population can't find their own country on a map.

Then the real screw-job started with the wealth transfer. Unions were busted, jobs were moved overseas. The safety net that kept millions from abject poverty was dissolved ("welfare queens", "food-stamp cheats"). The Middle Class began to evaporate with about 10% climbing up the ladder and the rest being dumped into the street.

For people like me -- people with high-end skills and a college degree -- that shit worked out great. But people who aren't as lucky? Kinda sucks being them. So they got madder and madder. Luckily, there were dark-skinned people that this rage could be directed at. That good ol' American racism? That shit pays dividends if you play it the right way.

Now you have an increasing number of poorly educated people living in poverty with grievances. Hey, guess what -- we have a new tool to focus all that anger and it's called FOX News! They can show you whose dastardly plan it was to keep your poor, white self down on the farm while those FUCKING LIBERALS live it up in the cities!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

See Newt, people like Bob aren't an anomaly, they're the intended end result of a very well-conceived long-term plan by extraordinarily smart people who understood Chomsky, Orwell and Lasker better than you ever will. Bob is now the norm and you are the exception.

Go ahead and vote in Biden or Warren or even Sanders: it doesn't fucking matter because you can't vote out entrenched stupid. No matter who is sitting at 1600 Penn Ave, Bob is sitting in front of his computer, seething and being stupid. He's not going anywhere. He's not going to see things differently and he's damned well not going to get any smarter.

There's a shit-ton of Bobs in this country and their numbers are growing daily. What're you going to do with them? Put 'em in a camp somewhere? Shoot 'em? You cannot have Bobs and the America you want. That leaves you with exactly two choices: you pick up your gun and shoot them, or you pick up your passport and leave. It's one or the other. You might not like the taste of this shit sandwich, but you're going to eat it whether you like it or not.

Also, you think Bob's a little kooky? Go visit 4chan's /pol/, visit whatever 8chan became, visit the comments section of Zero Hedge, read the comments on FOX's YouTube videos: those motherfuckers make Bob look like a goddamn bastion of rationality. Those people, the ones who're yelling at their screens and pounding out febrile screeds? They're armed. They hate you. They want to kill you. The only reason they haven't is because they haven't reached critical mass yet. Give them a couple of years of post-Covid economic collapse and they'll get there.

I'll never forget the most important lesson a Holocaust Survivor taught me: "The smart Jews left first".

Good luck; see you in Lyon.

newtboy said:

Yes, our country, it's values, morals, and ethics are all in dire shape, but I believe it's not beyond saving unless we give up and move to France....then it will probably be a Chinese colony in a decade.

Quarantine Got Me Eating Like

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Grreta Thunberg's Speech to World Leaders at UN

newtboy says...

If they get bored and stop listening, they'll get confused, won't they? I think they often get bored because they can't follow along, it's incredibly boring to have someone drone on using statistics and measurements you don't grasp and won't remember on a subject you also don't grasp.

I agree, but so far, measurements have consistently been outpacing the estimates, almost never the reverse.

What they tend to do is come from that incomplete data and incomplete analysis to model the absolute best case scenario to dictate policy, not the worst. That's absolutely what the U.N. report does, and it's not clear to most how much is left out, like infinitely better melting models (the measured melting in Greenland is already at the rate not predicted to be reached until 2075 in the UN's published estimations) and feedback loops we already see in action like melting methalhydrates and permafrost, both outgassing massive amounts of methane. Sane policy makers DO assume the absolute worst modeled outcome, then suggests policies to avoid it, at all cost when that worst case is extinction. Since measurements are consistently as bad or worse than the worst case scenario modeled, the only rational thing to do is assume that will continue and plan for the worst....you know, like they taught in preschool, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Your house burning down is an unlikely worst case scenario, but I bet you have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, and support the fire department. Good planning is to assume you WILL have a fire and plan to minimize the damage.
Or, terrorist attacks. The likelihood you'll be killed in a terrorist attack is exceptionally low, but we spend untold billions and sacrifice liberties to combat a worst case but unlikely scenario.

Prudence is the better part of valor.

Edit: as to most problems society faces, I suggest they are likely ALL a function of overpopulation....no question imo when it comes to the apocalyptic problems. Pollution, resource mismanagement, ecological destruction, etc. None would be disastrous with 1/10 the population.

Back-To-School Essentials | Sandy Hook Promise

harlequinn says...

I was talking about federal, state, and municipal.

So if you think the federal government has "effective regulation" of firearms there isn't much to talk about. Maybe your idea of what "effective regulation" is different than my idea of "effective regulation". The key word here is "effective". We all know they have been able to pass some regulations (constitutional or not).

"BTW if you want people to be polite and welcoming you might want to be polite yourself and avoid insulting people who haven't mentioned you, your opinions or your stance on gun control."

Please quote where I haven't done this. I'd be very surprised if you could find anything. Please note: "newtboy" literally asked.

Edit: oh wait. You think my warning about making assumptions is an insult! I see. No, it isn't. If you weren't taught that making assumptions is dumb then the reminder may well seem like an insult. Rest assured, it is good advice.

wtfcaniuse said:

I'm not interpreting "this" incorrectly.
I'm also not talking about state or municipal regulation.

I'm talking about federal regulation of arms that was enacted without having to change the constitution.

BTW if you want people to be polite and welcoming you might want to be polite yourself and avoid insulting people who haven't mentioned you, your opinions or your stance on gun control.

Little Girl Puts On Lipstick All By Herself

newtboy says...

Trust...but verify. Regan got one thing right. I'm not a liar, but I'm certainly not always right either.

They've never met, he was lying.

Fact?....ok, no, prediction. She's a little girl, so it's a near certainty she's going to be trouble in 10 years under any circumstances, but more so if she's a practiced liar.
But, her dad is rewarding the lying with extra attention and laughter. Assuming that's normal for them, he's teaching her to lie, not teaching her to be truthful. At the very least, that degrades his ability to reasonably complain when the lies get serious....She's only doing what he taught her after all.

BSR said:

A) I don't know if you lie or not. I trust you regardless.

B) OMG! Your brother knows OCKIE too!

C) So, "She is going to be serious trouble in about 10 years." was a little overblown? Not really fact?

What Do Cynical People Really Want?

newtboy says...

The irony is palpable.
This hyper cynical assessment of cynicism and cynics is some serious Jr high psychology in video form.

I'm clearly a cynic.
I had a decent childhood, with minor neglect but nothing that hurt me, just taught me to enjoy solitude. Like others, I've suffered loss of loved ones, both by death and choice, more often than I deemed fair. Like mom used to say," who told you life was supposed to be fair?" There's no secret hurt I'm brooding over.
I do have worldly experience, I traveled more by 18 than most do in their lifetime, studied at some excellent schools (and some horrific ones) for over a decade after high school, I have plenty of love and kindness in my life, more than I want or think I deserve sometimes. I've been happily married to the same woman for 21 years.
I thought this video was a slap in the face to honest cynics...dismissive of our valid, empirical evidence of how fucked things are, how crappy humanity is, and how little chance there is of solving our problems before it's too late, and infantalizing us as irrational babies lashing out because we've been hurt. Maybe we just refuse to pull the wool over our own eyes because we much prefer ugly truth to beautiful lies.
Edit: also, there's the idea that if you always expect the worst, you're never disappointed.

*rant over

What Happens To Good Cops?

newtboy says...

No...the gift of being violated is not precious. The gift of mistrust might have kept me out of trouble to some extent, but I could and would have learned that lesson without a gun to my head and knee in my neck, and without the threats to my freedom if I told on him.

I don't KNOW....I said I would bet. Please read more carefully before making assumptions and accusations. It's far more likely he's not remorseful, I said why I think that.

They wouldn't take a report or complaint, and I don't remember his name. That makes checking in on the thug a bit difficult. Your suggestion is like asking someone to look up their uncaught mugger to see if they feel bad decades later. I would love to face him as an adult, but he's not my white whale like you want him to be....he's just one more dangerous whale in a sea full of them, he just happens to be the one that bit me, they all bite. Nothing special about him.

I have zero need to give him forgiveness nor to take away the mistrust. I don't care a whit about him. Hate implies he's important to me, he's just not except as an example, an instance where I learned some harsh reality, that police are not there to serve and protect citizens as I had been taught.

Please don't presume to tell me what I need or how I feel. I find it insulting. You obviously don't know me a bit or you would never take that path. Assuming I'll react, think, or feel like an average, normal person is about as big an insult as I can think of.

I'm no cop. I'm not assaulting those I'm charged with protecting and serving. I'm not abusing anything by having an opinion.
Just stop, please, you're becoming dismissively insulting with your naive assumptions. Love isn't all you need...obviously....or you would be in line for your lobotomy right now and happily spend your life loving whatever you see without thinking. Remember, the group that told you that lie was broken up by love.

BSR said:

Do you not understand that he gave you a very precious gift. He gave you his problem whether you know it or not.

How do you know he's not remorseful now? It's been 30+ plus years.

You're a fact guy. Check the facts if that's what you need. But that means you'd have to face your fears. Find him. That's the only way you will know for sure if he remorseful. Do you have the guts to face him again? I doubt he would send you a greeting card.

But you still have another problem. If he's dead already you will still need to forgive him. You will still have his anger. His death will not take away the hate.

You need to do this for yourself otherwise you will pass the anger onto someone else to find the answer you're not capable of. You may even pass it on to the people you love the most.

In short, you're just another bad cop. You have become the very thing you hate. You are abusing the power you have.



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