Hmm, happiest and most productive countries in the world are "socialist states" in comparison to the US. Scandinavian countries, Canada, most of Europe.

Meanwhile, the US with its ultra-right government has some of the poorest health outcomes, educational outcomes, life expectancy, infant mortality, crime rates, murder rates, social unrest, happiness indicators, etc. etc. etc. of all developed nations.

Nobody believes you @bobknight33 you are full of crap.

Meanwhile, Hawaii, New York, California, Maryland continue to do very well for themselves while Kansas goes right down the tubes.

Sucks when theory and reality don't match, eh Bob? I guess you'll just go and throw out reality again (obviously it's flawed).

VideoSift blurs the definition of "snuff" for whatever reason. Snuff is murder. Dying in a car "accident" is not snuff, murder.

I could put a slow motion close up video of ISIS shooting someone in the head and make it a documentary but I doubt it would stay up very long. And yes, that is a real video.

Recently there was a video of two young women who were beheaded in Morocco. That video will stay with you for a long time.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/29/world/man-arrested-morocco-scandinavian-tourist-deaths/index.html

This was a recording of a homicide that was sent to the families of the victims. Had they distributed it to be sold as entertainment that would make it a snuff film.

I had to look very hard to find the people in this video. It's sad but it is not gore or murder.

I also doubt someone created the landslide in an attempt to kill people and film it for the sole purpose of selling it to those that buy it just to make them breath heavy.

I know the original concept was fictional, but the general ideal does exist in theory. I can find numerous articles that discuss it and even Scandinavian politicians refer to it as being somewhat entrenched in the society.

Perhaps a better way to look at it would be the secondary summary given by Kim Orlin Kantardjiev. The law might be summarised as "You shouldn't think you're better than everyone else."

Of course it isn't a 'law' in the rulebooks, but when you have a mostly homogeneous society that believes in a certain cultural norm, then it might as well be.

I suspect we will disagree on whether it is truly a factor, I can only offer my opinion based on what I have read and studied. One of the nasty side effect of my crippling fear of flight is the likelihood that I will never visit a country I can't drive to or take a short sea voyage to.

Janteloven is fictional, from a satire piece. Successful Scandinavians are celebrated, not put down.
Side note: The law was not written by Aksel Sandemose - it was found and twisted. The original laws were taken verbatim from the sobriety movement, where the list of laws was hung up on the wall. Although Sandemose did one change - each law ended with "...when you drink". And then the laws suddenly make quite a bit of sense.
Sandemose's contribution was to remove this crucial point of the laws, that it fit mentality he had seen elsewhere. Like all good satire, it has a grain of truth, but it is by no means a defining description of Scandinavians - it works just as well in a lot of hickwille towns all over the world.

It doesn't work because there is an intrinsic group think personality in the Nordic region. Most people in that region that were born and raised there are very sensitive to profit making and ostentatious displays.

Which means that people are glad to simply 'get by'. There is not a mass drive to be better than your neighbor or own more toys than them. Of course there are outliers, but the bulk of Scandinavians are very used to the accepted norm. They are more willing to accept massive tax rates because they know they will be taken care of by the government. They aren't necessarily concerned about 'getting rich'.

Contrast that to other areas, especially the USA, and you will find out that it would never work here because we are an individualistic nation. Even the bluest liberal wants to be rich here. It's more cutthroat, more selfish, than you will find in a Scandi nation.

Another huge reason it would never work is that they do not spend anywhere near the percentage of their budget on defense that we do. Denmark spends about 20 billion per year on defense. Norway, an oil rich Scandi nation that is considered one of our most important NATO allies, spends about 6 billion. Less than 1.2% of their GDP. This is one thing that Trump was actually right about. We spend around 700 Billion, roughly 3.5% of our current GDP.

"Half the alliance — 16 of the 29 countries — don’t even spend 1.5 percent (of gross domestic product) let alone 2 percent that we all agreed on four years ago (at a NATO summit) in Wales,” Michael Fallon, who served as secretary of state for defense from 2014 to 2017, said. In 2017, only the U.K., Greece, Poland and Estonia reached the 2 percent target.

Whether that level of spending is needed is another argument altogether. I personally think we overspend way too much on defense, but regardless it is a huge factor as to why we can't offer the same level of 'socialism' that the Nordic nations do. If we spent the same percentage as Norway, we would be saving close to 460 billion dollars a year that could be applied to other programs. Such as paying for college for qualified students or trade school for ones that are not college minded. Or providing benefits to new mothers that we currently don't.

Dude I cant tell your "race" even seeing you. I mean I see you are not scandinavian, but thats it.

People pretend all the time.

People pretend to be tall (or at least have long legs), be intelligent, have a pleasant symmetrical face, good eyesight, no speech impediments, facial and other hair under control, real teeth, clothes, watches, handbags, cars, its all a game. Why would race be the exception?

So you generally make a better impression over the phone if you talk white, does this mean that white people buy that much more stuff or is this particular form of racial favoritism prevalent among black people too?

We have an almost reverse form of this that is quite perverse. A lot of vietnamese small shop owners operate here and speak in peculiar mangled Czech - turns out some of them can speak well, but play along with the stereotype because it makes their racist customers happy.

Ironically, all Americans in anime look like Scandinavian man-mountain Dolph Lundgren.

Following the videos makes the whole thing a little more confusing or enlightening. It's apparently a Swedish youtube channel (whathitthefan) linking to a now defunct Swedish nationalist party's video, about a largely unsourced supposed Norwegian scourge. Either these Scandinavians are unable to tell each other apart, as is the rest of the world, or it's convenient to make up bullshit racist lies about the country just across the border, since that lets you paint a picture of an imminent threat.

Also, Bob. You're trying to sift actual, old school European nazi propaganda? The kind of shit that the US mopped the floors with 70 years ago? Where's your goddamn patriotic pride?

We need a *scandinavian channel. Or at least a *nordic one.

Funny, recidivism is high because there are no social support mechanisms post release, surprise surprise..

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/

"How is it that Nordic prisons that seem so cushy yield recidivism rates one-half to one-third of those in the U.S. (20-30 percent versus 40-70 percent)? "

I could add more quotes that would show up you're awfully, typically misinformed opinions, but it won't change your mind and I doubt anyone else around here needs to be more convinced that you're an idiot... ; )

Just thought I would copy a comment from the link you gave. Not going to get into a discussion over this, since I've made my feelings clear elsewhere.

________________________________________________________

Henny Roenne
May 17, 2015 at 4:56 am
Being a Dane, I would like to comment on your article.

One thing that makes the Scandinavian countries very different (or made them very diffferent until recently): countries with small enormously homogenous populations. This has changed the last few decades with an influx of people from countries with different cultures and ways of living. And actually all these fine figures have changed accordingly – at least for Denmark, A previous British ambassador to Denmark wrote: Denmark is not a nation, Denmark is a clan. I think this observation explains a lot and unfortunately the clan feeling has more or less disappeared.

Denmark has become a country which is much less safe to live in, prisons are filled to the brim, and standards in health and education systems have fallen dramatically. BUT previously things were quite rosy.

So the lesson to be learned for the US: this cannot be done with a country of more than 300 million inhabitants and a population mix that is like yours.

Sorry to be so pessimistic ……

*water, *wheels, *travel. And we need a *scandinavian or *nordic channel.

This line of work is much easier using GPS, instead of old fashioned maps and very long poles lining the roads.

australian man
scandinavian tan
kicking stones round a square
he sat for a while
and carved out a smile
as if someone would care

said I’m a long way from the gold coast
furthest I’ve ever known
oh and this just ain’t my home
it was my wife’s idea
but she’s no longer here
she left me travelling alone

I’ve never heard silence
ring out like a bell
I’ve never heard silence
like last night in my expensive hotel
well I’m loving a shadow
and trying to catch the rain
but I never heard silence
'til I heard it today

well she walked out of the hotel
I could still smell the smoke
of a burning heart left inside
she said men are all arseholes
and life’s a bad joke
she laughed and started to cry

see ten years with this man
and a lifetime of plans
oh and I loved him to his bones
but now I’ve lines on my skin
and he’s traded me in
and left me travelling alone

well I never felt silence
hit me like a train
I never felt silence
like blood course through my veins
well I’m loving a shadow
and trying to catch the rain
I never heard silence
'til I heard it today
I never felt silence
'til I felt it today

@Jerykk

I'll address by paragraph.

(1)

Wait, so I'm confused. Not enough research on my claim yet the death penalty apparently offers guaranteed results despite evidence to the contrary that I suggested?

Firstly I think you might be trying to make a bit of a straw man. I'm not saying that there should be no penalty. Some penalty obviously discourages some crime. But the argument is more over whether harsher sentences and mandatory minimums as this video discusses are helping, which I would argue they are not for the reasons outlined previously.

As for evidence of rehabilitation reducing recidivism, take for example:

http://ijo.sagepub.com/content/12/1/9.refs (see PDF)

Page 1
Finland, Norway and Sweden all have ~50-70 locked up per 100K, among the lowest. US has 716.

Page 2-3
Norway recidivism - 20%
US recidivism - 52%

I await your evidence to the contrary.

(2)

I'm talking per capita. Per capita the US certainly does have the highest among first world countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

Sort by per capita and find me a developed country higher than the US please.

Russia is not a first-world country (that's actually a Cold War term, more correctly not a a developed country). I'm Russian, I assure you, I would know

Russia's GDP/capita is $14K USD, versus the US's $52K. Not even a close comparison.

(3)

But do criminals proportionalise justice? Like I asked, do you think anything but a small minority (likely white collar criminals) accurately know the likely sentence of a crime before they commit it? If they don't what's the purpose of making them more severe?

Nobody is proposing there be no penalty. Even Scandanavian prisons are a penalty. The question is, does the threat of 30 over 15 years locked up (should they even be able to decipher legal code to know this) actually make a difference? I would argue not, hence the argument for harsher sentences is illogical.

People are generally good at gauging the likelihood of being caught (ie your pirating example) but that's not what I was talking about (the scale of punishment being a deterrent).

(4)

I don't think what you're proposing is practical or logical. No society is going to accept the death penalty as a punishment for speeding. It's an irrelevant argument to make.

Again, why the need for elaborate ideas never before attempted? Why not just adopt a model that has already worked, such as the Scandinavian one? It seems like you're trying to wrap your mind around a solution that fits your preconceived notion of incentives and no government assistance like I suggested in my first post.

(5)

Venezuela is a developing country. Crime is largely a result of economic mismanagement by Chavez leading to joblessness and civil unrest.

There are plenty of countries with which to compare the US with. Obvious choices would be Australia or the UK. Anglo-Saxon countries, similar culture, comparative income/capita. Or really any European country. Your comparison would suggest tp me you're trying to stretch your argument to fit.

Good points, Redsky.

However, there hasn't been nearly enough research on the effects of rehabilitation to claim that it consistently reduces recidivism. You mention Scandinavian countries in particular. How many of those rehabilitated prisoners were guilty of violent crimes? If you want to reduce recidivism, the death penalty will offer guaranteed results.

As for the U.S.'s murder rates, they aren't the highest among first-world countries. Higher than European countries, sure, but Europe is tiny. Russia is more comparable to the size of the U.S. and it has almost double the murder rate. China claims to have a 1.0 but I'd question the reliability of any data provided by that government.

I'm also pretty sure that most criminals recognize the severity of their crimes. If they aren't insane, they'll know that jaywalking will result in a far lesser penalty than murder. What it comes down to is risk versus reward. If breaking the law is the most convenient way of getting what they want and the likelihood of them getting caught is low, they'll break the law. That's rational behavior. It's the reason why people people slow down when they see a cop on the freeway instead of speeding like they would normally do. It's the reason why people won't hesitate to download a pirated movie but would think twice before trying to steal a movie from Best Buy. If someone wants to rob a liquor store and they see a cop inside, they will most likely not rob that particular liquor store. Not all criminals are psychotic murderers. On the contrary, most criminals are perfectly sane and break the law on a regular basis. They just make sure that the risks are low enough so they don't get caught.

Severe penalties mean nothing if they aren't enforced and increasing surveillance increases the likelihood of enforcement. Increasing surveillance wouldn't be cheap but then, rehabilitating criminals isn't cheap either. Getting rid of the prison system entirely and replacing it with efficient executions (nothing overly elaborate like lethal injections) would cut costs dramatically and allow for greatly expanded surveillance and enforcement, in addition to dramatically increasing the risk for any given crime. If the penalty for speeding was death and there were more cops patrolling the roads and freeways, I guarantee 99.9% of drivers would stop speeding. There's no hard data for this, of course, but that's because no country has ever attempted it.

Venezuela currently has over ten times the murder rate of the U.S. It was the first country in the world to abolish the death penalty. Now, the country is riddled with corruption. Laws have no meaning because they are not enforced so criminals do whatever they want without fear of reprisal.