Woo boy, this is a doozy! The fact of the matter is a video comment section is not the place to have this conversation. There's too much to discuss, too many questions from one another that are best asked soon after they're conceived, etc. I frankly just don't have the time to respond to everything you said. Don't take this as acquiescence; if you'd like to have a Zoom chat some time, I'd be down.

In any event, I'll respond to what I find either the most important or at least most interesting:

Having theories is definitely the best way to go about most of the things you consider fact (for the moment), but the fact of the matter (no pun intended) is that at some point you'll need to use some of those claims as fact/belief in order to take action. And it's just human nature to, if one believes in a claim for long enough, it becomes fact, despite all your suggestions of objectivity. It's easy to say you're a scientist through and through, but if you're really someone who doesn't believe anything and merely theorize things, I think you'd be a sad human being. But that's a claim that I leave up to the scientists.

> Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious.

You think that's a defensible moral claim? I find that disgraceful. If you truly think your own pleasure is worth sentient beings' lives then... I don't know what to say to you. That strikes me as callous and unempathetic, 2 traits you often assert as shameful. This is my point. You sound pretty obstinate to at least a reasonable claim. To respond with just "they're tasty". You don't sound reasonable to me.

> You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to.

Aw, come on @newtboy, I thought better of you than to give me a logical fallacy. The fact that you're resorting to logical fallacies wwould indicate to me that either you're confronting some cognitive dissonance, otherwise why would you stoop to such a weak statement?

> I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" ...

There is a lot of scientific research (not funded by Big ___) that is currently spouting this "bullshit". What happened to your receptive, scientific, theory-based lifestyle? It's true nutrition science is a fucking smog-filled night mare considering how much money is at stake, but I find it telling that a lot of the corporations are using the same ad men from Big Cigarette to stir up constant doubt.

Again, I find it peculiar that you are highly suspicious of big corporations... except when it comes to something that you want to be true.

Again, this is my point. Take a moment, take a few breaths, and look inside. Can you notice that you're acting in the exact same fashion as the people you purport to be obscenely stubborn?

Check out NutritionFacts if you want to see any of the science. Actual science. I would hope that it would give you at least somedoubt and curiosity.

That's a true scientist's homeostatic state: curiosity. Are you curious to investigate the dozens (hundreds?) of papers with a truly non-confirmation-biased mind? How much of a scientist are you?

> I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me.

This, for me, raises all sorts of red flags. That's quite a sweeping claim.

> Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

So, you're willing to make decisions based on self-interest and not morality? Well, duh. Everyone does that. It doesn't sound like you had a self-reflective moment. It sounds like you merely had a self-interested decision based on the risk to your own health.

And finally, all your talk about Bob -- of course he acts, consistently, like a twat. I just don't like feeding trolls. I don't think there's anyone on Videosift who's on the precipice and would be pushed over into the Alt-right Pit by Bob's ridiculous nonsense.

> Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies.

Ironically, I think science has disproved this. Facts don't change minds in situations like this. There are lots of articles on this. I didn't have the wherewithal to dig into their citations, but I leave that (non-confirmation-biased) adventure for you. [1]

---

I knew I wouldn't make this short, but I think it's shorter than it could have been.

Lastly, I'm with @BSR; I do appreciate your perseverance. Not everyone has as much as you seem to have! Whenever I see Bob... doing his thing, I can always be assured you'll take most of the words from my mouth. [2]

[1]
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/

Why People Ignore Facts | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/words-matter/201810/why-people-ignore-facts

Why Many People Stubbornly Refuse to Change Their Minds | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201812/why-many-people-stubbornly-refuse-change-their-minds

Why Facts Don't Always Change Minds | Hidden Brain : NPR
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/743195213

[2] This comment has not been edited nor checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Haven't you got enough from me?

Reagan happened.

That's when Republicans became the party that worked to serve the interests of corporations and wealthy individuals. To do that they needed to get people to vote against their own interests. To accomplish this, they've resorted to increasingly extreme methods to attract votes from easily manipulated people.

Who is this? Bob has never once replied with such decent English or well researched arguments. Makes me think this is a cut and paste except the last line. What's your source? OAN? Breitbart?

$100?! Try millions in donations to his campaign that he's consistently treated like a private piggy bank. Despite his promise to fund his own campaign, he does the opposite and funds himself with his campaign. Pharmaceutical companies stand to make billions if everyone takes it, he knows who butters his bread, and so do we.
Before you say it's not enough money for him to sell out, remember he sold out a career ambassador for $300000 from Russian backed Ukrainians.

Exactly what anti Trump media am I believing? You don't know where my information comes from, do you? It must drive you crazy to not know which reputable source to discount, deride, and denigrate.

97% of all media is ANTI TRUMP? You're not that dumb and must realize this can't be true. Could it be that 97% of all fact is anti Trump because his actions are indefensible? Seems more reasonable and likely.

Trump is pushing it like a cure, and Giuliani was thrown off Twitter for saying it was one that's 100% effective, a pure dangerous lie. Check his portfolio, I bet he's got stocks in it too.
Talk to ex or current military, the biggest customers, they'll tell you they would rather have malaria than take it again. In the private medical world, it's a drug of last resort because of the life altering bad effects (and which are you implying aren't bad with the quotes?). When you're going to die without it, it can't hurt. When you're thinking it's a cure and taking it when you aren't even sick, like many are based on Trump's sales pitch, it definitely will hurt many that might otherwise be fine.

Con man bad.

More head up your ass denial from the right. Do your research...you'll find that, unlike every other president ever, Trump continues to hide his assets and refuse to divest in non-American companies. His stock holdings in Sanofi, maker of the name brand, have been uncovered, but who knows how much of his holdings are still secret? No one since his financial ties are locked door secrets. What is clear is that multiple major donors have massive holdings in sanofi and other generic manufacturers, some ARE drug manufacturers, so he has good reason to sell it even if he didn't have the personal stake that he has....he gets millions in donations he can pilfer.

FYI, a near 100% of doctors disagree, there are zero studies and only some anecdotal evidence to support Trump's self serving snake oil claims, and tons of proof that it's dangerous, has side effects that can be permanently disabling or deadly and may be worse and more likely than average Covid19 symptoms, and has not proven to be effective against Covid19. Do your research. Drugs of last resort should not be used as preventative or unsupervised medicine, or be suggested by people who know nothing but stand to benefit financially.

It's bad because it causes;
Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blurred vision or other vision changes
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty breathing
difficulty seeing at night
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever with or without chills
general feeling of tiredness or weakness
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
severe mood or mental changes
sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the feet or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
Heart failure
Death
All with no evidence it helps with Covid19

No Bob. That's wrong....not surprising because Russia doesn't teach American politics, but that's not how it works.

Your simple illustration from a simple mind is incorrect. Impeachment isn't the same as a bill, if it was McConnell would just refuse to act like he has on almost every bill, killing it in political limbo. He simply cannot do that, because it's not a bill, it's a constitutional duty.

Yes, at this point the articles are legitimate, and the Senate's slimy trail began long ago. The trial can't start until the legitimate articles are submitted to the Senate.

A realistic illustration for a simple mind....this is like having a grand jury indictment that has yet to be put on the courts calendar because the judge is the defendant's best friend and business partner but refuses to recuse himself. The indictment is legitimate, but the trial hasn't yet started because the only prosecutor and the jury pool has stated publicly that they're all working for the defendant and will just exonerate him without a real trial, no evidence, and no testimony.
The Senate has to have a real trial to enforce it....but has already ensured any faux trial is nothing but a politically motivated rubber stamp where jeopardy is never attached.

Funny you ignored the bit about charity fraud and other high crimes, which he undeniably committed and admitted under oath so you have to call him a perjuror to deny it, stealing from veterans and children to pay for his campaign and inauguration, lying to Mueller which you applauded, and making hundreds of millions by renting resort rooms to foreign governments at inflated rates that aren't even used (which is pure bribery). That's impeachable, cause for removal, and should end in prison, he outright stole millions through fraud and admitted it last year in court. I suppose you must agree since you didn't contradict any of that.....and you can't, because he's admitted it all.

They're still planning the G7 for Trump's club during it's off season (filling the otherwise empty rooms).
Just gonna leave this here for @bobknight33 before he tries to defend and excuse yet another blatant violation of the constitution....

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Emolument: a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office.

Any fee of any kind whatever....so no, claiming he's renting the resort "at cost" means nothing....less than nothing when you understand that he claims his subcontractors can make any profit they wish as long as the property doesn't profit, and he uses Trump subcontractors that can set their own price with no negotiations. That's exactly how he bankrupted his casinos.

1) If Ecuador is America's bitch, after giving Assange asylum for years then what of all the countries that refused to extend asylum?

2) Trump has shown he has no interest in bringing Assange to the U.S. It's a safe bet that pressure on the Equadorians to turn him over were at an all-time low. Turning him over now is, if anything, hurting the powers that be in America. How is that being America's bitch?

3) Assange isn't wanted on charges of journalism. You could make the argument that some/many of the charges against him are politically motivated, but if so that will play out in court. Americans may no longer have an unbiased judiciary, but if there's nothing there, it will be hard to come up with a conviction even with a friendly judge.

Everything in this video is just empty rhetoric. There are no facts, just arguments attempting to play on our emotions. If they had facts, they should have used them. That they resort to these disingenuous tactics shows they've got nothing.

You could... you know, just establish an effective oversight body that actually punishes cops who step out of line and break the law. Combine that with proper social programs to keep the poorest from being so desperate they see no recourse but to resort to criminal behaviour and hey, just like magic things get better!

Not exactly rocket science.

Honestly, and I'm sorry if I appear to be picking on you here, WTF is up with this bullshit. Every other Westernized democracy has a better record with their police, but Americans just throw their hands up and say, "Golly gee, if it ain't workin' here, I guess there's no solution, 'cuz 'Merica is the best at everythin'." PLENTY of other countries manage just fine. And you know what? They ALSO have lower crime rates and lower recidivism rates.

All you have to do is look beyond your own borders for solutions instead of assuming you know best.

1) Because they didn't succeed in a vacuum, they benefit from civilization, so are obligated to support it to at least the same extent if not more because they are able while others aren't.

2) swap dumb with rich and Trump is the bazillionaire he claims to be. You can't just swap dissimilar unrelated concepts and say "see, proved it" without looking like a braying moron.

3) Yes it should without question, our best and brightest don't come from the privileged class as a higher percentage. Actually the opposite because they don't have to do their best to survive, poorer people do, and drive matters immensely. If we want to compete internationally, we must educate the uneducated and undereducated, even those who can't afford $500000 to fake a crew history or SAT score. That education needs to be better than the countries we compete with, and it is all too often simply not.
That is a conservative stance, not a liberal one.

4) equating wealth to gpa, like this moronic video does, means Trump, like everyone else, should start at 0 and not get a bonus from daddy. If that happened, he would be zero. He is not self made, he did not only get a small $14 million unrepaid interest free loan. He did squander the money, failing at venture after venture until only Russian gangsters will loan him money, loans he needs because he squandered the money....then he repeatedly lied about it immorally squandering billions from hundreds of duped investors too...THAT is evil, yes.

5) We make $30000 for two people and don't take a dime, even overpaid my taxes...not everyone has my opportunities, privileges, and abilities. You are just spouting nonsense straw man arguments. In a perfect world, we could all be self sustaining with equal opportunity to succeed, we don't live in that communist/socialist utopia.....no one ever has.
I believe we are better off when the least privileged don't have to resort to violent or immoral crime to survive. I believe we are better off as a nation when our best people have the opportunities to succeed that our worst but most privileged are afforded. I believe we are better off being protected from the irresponsibility of purely profit driven commerce that, by design, must walk the razors edge of acceptability to maximize profit and minimize obligations by any means necessary, usually leaving them for socialist programs to clean up/repair. I believe we do more good ensuring the starving among us are fed food humans would willingly eat before ensuring some unrepentant apocalyptic bankers get their multi million dollar bonuses and a free pass on their crimes, and before those making multi millions a year get to hoard more and pay even less of their share.

6) What you are spouting is bat shit insane, not even AOC advocates pure socialism....not even Russia had pure socialism. Your ilk, however, calls any government program that doesn't directly benefit them or their Trumpian masters "socialist"....education, infrastructure, all regulatory agencies, social security, even the fbi have been labeled socialist by Trumpists in the zeal to discredit the report they assumed would expose criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States (ps, it found exactly that dozens of times over), while military welfare programs for equipment we don't want and won't use, bailouts for banks and agribusiness, public funds for private ventures like golf courses and troll roads, (edit:Freudian slip?) and don't forget the unmentioned elephant, the military itself...all that socialism is fine, you think it's not even socialism. *facepalm

I'll say it again.

Asinine.

I don't understand yours....it was your question.

You asked when violence is deserved, I answered.
You countered that resorting to violence might not work out as well as I think, I haven't considered multiple variables before jumping into violence, I'm possibly overconfident, not trying to defuse instead of exacerbate, being irresponsible, and making a fool of myself by jumping into a violent response, but that isn't what I said as that's not the question you asked.

You asked when violence is deserved, not when it's advised....you understand the difference, right? My answer was to that question, not to one that remains unasked.
Please re-read your question.

Yeah, heaven forfend we end up with a generation of men who think women deserve respect or that violence is a last resort.

That’d be a fucking nightmare.

Toxic masculinity is absolutely a thing, and it harms men as much as women.

But it’s called “toxic” masculinity for a reason. If I said “shit this toxic water is killing us”, would you think I was implying that ALL water is toxic? Of course not. There’s nothing wrong with masculinity or masculine behaviour. But when you define aggressive, predatory behaviour as “masculine” then of course all masculinity is bad. But the problem isn’t masculinity, it’s your fucked up definiton of it. Hence the differentiator “toxic”.

TL;DR don’t be an asshole and no one will bother you for just being a man.

"There is plenty of scum to go around on both sides."

Ahh the classic false equivalency that Trump supporters often resort to.

First of all, every child should be taught at a young age that just because other children may act like little shits, that doesn't mean they can. The amount of functional adult Trump supporters who use "the Democrats are bad too!" as an excuse for Trump's behavior is just astounding. It's really just a pathetic diversionary tactic used to avoid discussing the issues at hand.

Second, your claim that Democrats are just as cruel is simply not true. Blaming Democrats for the very thing Trump is guilty of is a common smear tactic employed by extremist right wing propaganda.

Take Trump's zero tolerance policy which separated minors from their families for example. Right wing propaganda outlets like OAN love showing pictures of children housed alone in Obama era detention facilities and cry foul at the liberal media at the lack of coverage. The reality is that Obama faced a huge surge of thousand of unaccompanied minors from south america in 2014 who were detained. So yes, thousands of children were detained, but they were NOT separated from the families in the first place.

And while some families were separated during Obama's tenure, Obama's policies tried to limit this as much as possible. It is a far cry from what Trump's zero tolerance policy accomplished. The "liberal" media did not report this under Obama OR Bush simply because it was not an issue. If you believed that there was unfair media coverage for Trump on this issue, then you were lied to and manipulated. Its part of what we discussed earlier how Trump uses lies to discredit the media and further erode our democracy.

The point is that right wing propaganda and Trump himself routinely uses lies and deception to paint himself as the target of a "liberal media bias" that they themselves manufactured. And his gullible supporters like yourself love believing in his victim complex. If you don't believe me, then just refer to non partisan international sources like the BBC and you'll soon discover that Trump is just as shitty from an impartial view as the "biased liberal media" portrays him.

Both sides are not the same, no matter what lies Trump and Fox News et al. tries to tell you. And there are plenty of respectable media sources which are not CNN which also exposes Trump for the lying scum that he is.

I googled it.
It's a place called Ski Apache, a ski resort.

I guess they all killed themselves.

Seriously, though. What's wrong with the Titanic song? I like it.

This reminds me of the episode of Married with Children where Al Bundy is trying to exterminate a rabbit in his garden. I think he resorts to a shotgun and finally dynamite if memory serves correctly. Anyone else remember this?