>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
when was the last Polio victim?



Actually 413 in April this year, 19 dead, in Tajikistan. Thanks to vaccinations, the entire thing was over by June. Science: 1* , Jenny/antivaxx: NOT A FUCKIN THING.
Story:
http://vaccinecentral.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/tajikistan-polio-outbreak-halted-via-vaccines/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/08/04/antivaxxers-take-note-vaccines-stop-polio-outbreak-in-tajikistan/
*actually roughly 500 each month and rising, but whos counting, we all just depend on it, after all.

By the way "Mr.healthy as a horse" the polio vaccine also blocks the transfer from patient to patient, which means that you might have the strain, and you might have infected others with it, and while they might suffer eternal crippledness from it, you could be among the lucky who never actually develops the disease, so enjoy your horsey healthiness.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

I should point out that Penicillin has nothing to do with fighting virus's and everything to do with bacteria. Bacteria are a good thing to fear as they have always been a problem, and will most likely continue to be one for sometime. And in years to come, might become a serious problem. Virus's, however, could be completely eliminated once a vaccine is developed. Cold pox is no longer with us as evidence, and when was the last Polio victim? When talking about pathology, you have to understand that all things are not created equal. Just because Penicillin is loosing effectiveness doesn't mean vaccines do. And even if they do, that does negate the thousands, dare I say, hundreds of millions of lives they saved in the meantime.

>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.


Vaccines are not perfect, but they do the job of keeping 20-40% of our kids from ending up as dead or crippled for life.. (...on second thought, vaccines are perfect.)

Penicillin is "biting us in the ass" because the viruses bacteria it kills (you know the viruses bacteria that kills us if we dont kill them) develops resistance, or more accurately, the descendants of a tiny percentage of them that are immune to penicillin become more numerous down the generations. This is not an ideal situation for us humans, but penicillin is the best we've got. The one weakness of penicillin is that when we use it too much, viruses bacteria evolve to become resistant.

This is similar to why HIV patients, for instance are given medicines in "waves". One month on medication, and two months off, and so on, because during the course of medical treatment, the virus evovles resistance, and when its stopped, the non-resistant strains take over again, and you can start medicating again., this way you can keep the virus level down to a minimum.

Vaccines are a completely different matter. Vaccines work by triggering our immune system towards specific attacks, which means that they dont attack an evolving virus, but they prepare our bodies for attacks against them. Polio, for instance does not evolve to circumvent this protection, because it is denied access to evolve in the first place with mass-vaccination.

EDIT: correction on the bacteria/virus confusion. Thanks GeeSussFreek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Coprophagia_in_human_beings

I project that the last two people in the Human Centipide would probably die of something along the lines of any of the following; "E. coli, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis E, pneumonia, polio, and influenza."

What a disgusting movie.

EDIT:
Read a review on it, so they would have one digestive tract? I have a hard time suspending reality for movies like this, including movies like Hostel.

I never liked the Guy Fawkes mask at protests. Some Anarchists and Libertarians have been doing it for years, and it bothers me that they'd liken their cause to terrorism. I want a peaceful evolution, not a violent revolution.

That being said... The banking industry doesn't want free markets. I know this because investment bankers have said as much. What we have now is a nationalized pro-corporate marketplace. The regulations are everywhere, and they've choked out small business and emboldened large corporations and big bankers.

I doubt people like Jonas Salk would be able to research and put into the market the polio vaccine when facing a minimum of $4-5 million to pay for FDA approval today.

Be careful about which diseases you're talking about. Because, when it comes to mental health, scientific/cultural imperialism seems to be alive and well:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122490928

Obviously when you're talking about a cure for something like Polio (cured) or Malaria, AIDS, etc, it's a different story...but arguments like the one you're making often bleed over into things like mental health when people don't preserve the nuance. You can make "scientific" claims about psychology as well and be horribly wrong. Mr. Harris is talking about more concrete science that will come from more precise study of the brain in the future. If you asked him, I doubt he'd be willing to make moral judgments based on current psych.

>> ^dag:
^Yes, how dare anyone question the all-knowing oracles of medical knowledge.
I think the reason that many geeky type people always toe the main-stream medical line is because they conflate medicine with science (which we all love). Yes, it's almost the same, but if I had to draw it as a venn diagram, there would be a crescent of over-hang. Medicine to me is 80% science and then the rest is filled in with dogma, patriarchy and business ($$).
That crescent of non-science is the part that makes me squirm. I don't think it's that wrong to question medical programs like vaccinations- with the idea that it may be being pushed non-scientifically by the medical industrial complex. (big pharma).
Bill Maher is not a kook.


As Raigen said, in this instance Bill is being a kook. Yes, we need to question everything, especially medicine. But at the end of the day one has to look at the science behind the medicine and make an informed decision. The science, as Frist said, shows that vaccines work and will save your life.

I think it's really funny how, in the last few years, people have begun to fear and distrust vaccines. Smallpox, a disease that killed 300-500 million people in the 20th century alone, was eradicated thanks to vaccines. Thanks to vaccination the occurrence of Polio went from 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1300 cases in 2007.

Vaccines work, ignoring the science kills people. Bill Maher ignores the science. In this instance he is a dangerous kook.

Bill is funny, but his views on alt. med are wrong. When he states that treatments we've been using for 50 years haven't worked at all, he is dead wrong. Cancer is much too complicated to practically wipe out with a single solution, like polio or small-pox.even still, for white people the survival rates for cancer has gone from 39 percent in the 60's to 62 percent in 1998; this despite the cancer rates having increase (National Cancer Institute, Cancer Rates and Risks, 1998). I’m not sure where they are at now in 2009 but you can bet its better.

PS, they have been increasing for other races too, but for what ever reason, whites have increased the most.


I dont know if rotty is trying to point out another fallacy or if he is actually perpetuating it; surprise results in clinical trials does not mean "big pharmas (doesn’t) know WHY things work in many cases.". The end result might not be the same as the initial intent before and after the trials, but that’s how a lot of discoveries are made, and they might not have initially known the mechanism behind the end result, but they know the mechanisms by the time it is released on the market, that’s what the FDA requires by law of them. Teflon, microwaves, penicillin and Viagra where all accidental discoveries, but we obviously now know how they work and did know how they worked before they were released.

an interesting point; pharmaceutical companies need to know the mechanisms, risks, and effects of medicine before they release them ( via FDA, clinical trials and lab tests ) but alternative medicine companies ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TEST, PROVE OR UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISMS OR RESULTS THEY CLAIM OF THEIR PRODUCTS! simply because the legal classification of "alt. med".

gwiz, i don’t know if you heard this, but you may be pleased to know (since we are definitely on the same page on this), that acupuncture has been proven no more effective that a placebo; double blind studies have shown it doesn’t matter if you puncture the skin in the "appropriate places"(according to acupuncture techniques), if you puncture the skin in random places, or if you don’t puncture the skin at all (using "stage knife" needles that only look like they are puncturing); there is no difference! This means that the only benefits you get from acupuncture are merely placebo and not medically valid.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1897636,00.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19250001?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDoc
Sum

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1518#more-1518

Yeah, i have a serious hair up my ass when it comes to this too. Especially when you hear public figures like bill saying that current medicine is not working and that bullshit, unproven quackery; the reason is that some people will take that advice and drop effective treatments for the alternative ones, usually get ripped off and often end up dying.

check this site out to see what i mean

http://whatstheharm.net/

I think it's because you're to afraid to use your mind. You would prefer to fall in line with the rest of the racist sheep instead of being a pioneering poet in the world of racism. Step out on a limb and give a stereotype nobody has thought of before. Write a limerick about the laziness of mexicans or the poor credit score of blacks. The world is your inferior oyster ready to be made fun of. You see, dag's not challenging our freedom of speech, he's challenging our creativity. He wants his site full of the most rich, authentic, original racism. This isn't youtube, faaaaaaaaaaaaaag

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i completely reject this statement.
maybe thats the difference between me and a jerk like you. i have the courage of my convicttions. coward.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
no no no...shhhhhhhhhhh. You can't actually USE derogatory names. That's the line you have to walk on you stupid cunt.

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
im disappointed in you. everyone i ever met in california called them beaners. in texas we call them wetbacks.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
Circumcision is both to promote cleanliness and to reduce sexual sensation...

...you know 2 things Mexicans don't practice, cleanliness and abstinence

Dag would be mad at how insensitive that is to Mexicans, but everybody knows Mexicans don't have the internet yet...or running water...or a cure for polio

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i knew you were a fucking jew when you tried to gyp me on the price of the blowjob.

ps. im leaving this crass racist offensive message on your profile in hopes of getting in on some of this hot bdsm handcuff action.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
I'm kosher baby, so "L'Chaim"

i completely reject this statement.
maybe thats the difference between me and a jerk like you. i have the courage of my convicttions. coward.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
no no no...shhhhhhhhhhh. You can't actually USE derogatory names. That's the line you have to walk on you stupid cunt.

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
im disappointed in you. everyone i ever met in california called them beaners. in texas we call them wetbacks.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
Circumcision is both to promote cleanliness and to reduce sexual sensation...

...you know 2 things Mexicans don't practice, cleanliness and abstinence

Dag would be mad at how insensitive that is to Mexicans, but everybody knows Mexicans don't have the internet yet...or running water...or a cure for polio

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i knew you were a fucking jew when you tried to gyp me on the price of the blowjob.

ps. im leaving this crass racist offensive message on your profile in hopes of getting in on some of this hot bdsm handcuff action.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
I'm kosher baby, so "L'Chaim"

no no no...shhhhhhhhhhh. You can't actually USE derogatory names. That's the line you have to walk on you stupid cunt.

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
im disappointed in you. everyone i ever met in california called them beaners. in texas we call them wetbacks.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
Circumcision is both to promote cleanliness and to reduce sexual sensation...

...you know 2 things Mexicans don't practice, cleanliness and abstinence

Dag would be mad at how insensitive that is to Mexicans, but everybody knows Mexicans don't have the internet yet...or running water...or a cure for polio

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i knew you were a fucking jew when you tried to gyp me on the price of the blowjob.

ps. im leaving this crass racist offensive message on your profile in hopes of getting in on some of this hot bdsm handcuff action.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
I'm kosher baby, so "L'Chaim"

im disappointed in you. everyone i ever met in california called them beaners. in texas we call them wetbacks.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
Circumcision is both to promote cleanliness and to reduce sexual sensation...

...you know 2 things Mexicans don't practice, cleanliness and abstinence

Dag would be mad at how insensitive that is to Mexicans, but everybody knows Mexicans don't have the internet yet...or running water...or a cure for polio

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i knew you were a fucking jew when you tried to gyp me on the price of the blowjob.

ps. im leaving this crass racist offensive message on your profile in hopes of getting in on some of this hot bdsm handcuff action.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
I'm kosher baby, so "L'Chaim"

Circumcision is both to promote cleanliness and to reduce sexual sensation...

...you know 2 things Mexicans don't practice, cleanliness and abstinence

Dag would be mad at how insensitive that is to Mexicans, but everybody knows Mexicans don't have the internet yet...or running water...or a cure for polio

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
i knew you were a fucking jew when you tried to gyp me on the price of the blowjob.

ps. im leaving this crass racist offensive message on your profile in hopes of getting in on some of this hot bdsm handcuff action.

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
I'm kosher baby, so "L'Chaim"

And furthermore the crazy part of the original story is not "omg someone screwed up and the vaccine is contaminated!" It's: "The WHO secretly controls the world is and is going to dissolve all of the world governments by purposefully infecting everyone with murderous (not contaminated) vaccines. (And also all of the governments consented to this four years ago by putting through seeeeecret directives)."

Edit: Though even a contamination aspect should be suspect specifically because of the extra precautions taken due to the Polio problem. And people have a history of freaking out over vaccines (MMR-autism people, yearly-flu conspiracy people (even Bill Maher is one of these, which surprised me), and all-disease-comes-from-diet people), so I think skepticism of ridiculous claims is warranted.