Sky News!? That’s like Fox on meth without the pretext that they’re pro-America. Foreign Anti American propaganda from an anti democracy anti America foreigner.
Love the way you love those who absolutely hate America so consistently.

Sorry, @bobknight33….the only reasons Trump didn’t start any wars (and boy did he want to) are 1) his advisors repeatedly talked him down from most, but not all provocations (how we avoided war in Iran I’ll never know, multiple assassinations often lead to war, especially when you murder generals and their entourage on foreign soil.)
And 2) he never contradicted or stood up to our enemies, he courted, praised, and capitulated to them completely. Why would Russia go to war when we completely ignored their invasions and expansion and took their word over our own intelligence community?

Derp….the pipeline Trump’s whining about was cancelled by the Germans. How great an idea to have them spend billions then cancel certification!

I know you have the memory of a meth head gnat, but come on, Bobby. Are you really that clueless….oh wait, yes you are. You just claimed Russia didn’t invade under Trump a day or two ago.

You didn’t just fail current events and history class here, Bob, you got a 12% average. Once again, you make it impossible to believe you graduated from an American college, difficult to believe you graduated high school. So sad.

If that’s your position I wont bother reading past sentence one.

It’s exactly the same as your other mistake, claiming a billion in goods delayed in transport is the same as a billion dollar loss.

Money not spent is not the same as money lost. It’s actual money lost vs potential expenditure delayed. It’s permanent actual jobs lost vs potential temporary construction delayed (the project as planned is cancelled, not the plan to build a pipeline SOMEWHERE, and spend a billion on it, just not through reservations and sensitive watersheds on the cheap.)

The auto manufacturers will never recoup the lost production, the oil company will build a pipeline. There are costs to delays/redesign, absolutely, but they aren’t 100% of the projected project costs or anywhere close.

Have a nice day. I’ve grown tired of the merry go round. I’m pretty sure we understand each other’s positions, and don’t see progress beyond that. You insist on not seeing similarities and differences I think are incontrovertible….like the idea that a blockade of a major city, closing it down for weeks +, is far more unacceptable and inconveniences exponentially more people and business than a blockade of a railroad out in the country, or of a pipeline on tribal land by the tribe.

When you cancel a project, you don’t lose the money, you just don’t spend it. Really?!

I’m guessing you think I’m “urban” (racist code in the US btw, might wanna go with “city folk”). You would have guessed wrong. The nearest town to me is Eureka, 25k people 25 miles away.

You just don’t understand money if you insist canceling a billion dollar project is the same as losing the same amount of money. Edit: that’s only true if it’s canceled after it’s completed.
I’m using the figures Auto manufacturers gave as their lost production value, not including the collateral damage temporarily closing those plants cost the communities and both up and down supply chains.

Funny, you don’t include hospitals, which the truckers also reportedly blocked.

Protests can be permitted. If you’re disrupting someone else’s or public property without a permit, expect arrest for trespassing/breaching the peace at least.

Odd, if that’s really your position, why would you defend the truckers rights to blockade a city of worksites, job sites, and trade routes…reasons be damned?!?

I’m of the opinion that protests designed to disrupt the lives of people completely uninvolved in your cause always hurt your cause and make you look selfish. I tend to not defend self centered tantrums. I do not put pipeline protests in that category, permanent contamination of watersheds effects everyone, and almost everyone buys oil.

@newtboy,

??? How exactly do you figure cancellation of a billion dollar project is no where near the economic cost of blocking a border crossing for awhile at similar cost???

I'll tell you what the difference in Canada is, the dollars lost from the pipeline were being lost in Alberta, the dollars lost from the convoy were in Ontario. In Canada we've got a pretty sad history of if it happens to western provinces, it doesn't matter. Much like the urban/rural divide in the US. The response is pretty similar as well, the urban side just laughs at the loss of the stupid backwards country folk. When the same thing hits them though it's a national emergency.

I've tried pointing out costs and your just rejecting them out of hand , while whole hog accepting the highest estimates for the convoy cost as gospel truth. Like the literally a company walking from a multi-billion dollar project and you insist that's nothing and the days the border was blockaded clearly must have cost more...


For years now I've insisted that illegal blockades of worksites, job sites or trade routes should be met with prompt arrests and re-opening of the route/site.

Until January of this year, the entirety of the Liberal minded half of my country(Ottawa centric) called that authoritarian, repressive and were against the notion. Now I find myself in a weird spot, as suddenly that same crowd DOES want that action and more to be taken promptly. And the conservative crowd that agreed with me before is now kinda walking things back.

I read it, nowhere did it give an estimate of what those protests cost, and it indicated there were multiple other routes for the oil to travel so didn’t even disrupt oil transportation completely, much less ALL commerce.
And it was about pipelines crossing their (or protected) land it seems, a far cry from the truckers. Yes, the validity and severity of your cause matters, just like the damage you do and to whom.

Billions worth of goods stuck temporarily…but no actual estimated cost for their delay, this cost billions in lost production and salaries that won’t be recovered.

That protest was targeted against the offending entity, not the populace. I have no issue with natives blockading their own land and preserves that feed those reservations against permanent destruction for some private profits. That’s a far cry from the truckers blockading the main border crossing for industry and tourism because they’re afraid to get a poke.

The numbers I saw were special. Hundreds of millions-billions lost (your billions in goods delayed doesn’t have a price tag). That was before the bridge was reopened. These protesters weren’t satisfied with that damage and continued to close your capitol with ever shifting demands. Since regular measures had failed, I support emergency measures, seizure, even forfeiture after trial, of any funds or tools used.

Perhaps they became only as localized (but certainly not as targeted, and localized in a city not the unpopulated country), but they had already done exponentially more damage and showed no sign of end or even demands.

Let’s ignore someone personally supporting a grass roots movement outside their country and control, please. I find it a red herring totally unconnected to how he governs.

Yes, some Floyd protests were more violent than the truckers, some weren’t, remember how they were all violently smashed, tear gassed, rubber bullets galore, run through with police trucks, unmarked vans pulling up and grabbing people crossing the streets, unmarked vans driving through towns full of police shooting tear gas at any moving body, etc? Don’t pretend the response is similar.
Also, the Floyd protests lasted a weekend in most cases (occupy Portland really wasn’t about Floyd) and went elsewhere the next march. They weren’t closing down one area for weeks intent on staying. Most lasted hours and were peaceful until police became violent, despite right wing media’s fear-mongering.

I think you’re stretching, putting on blinders, and doing insane mental gymnastics to pretend you believe that. From the actual damage caused, the idiotic reasoning behind it (quickly abandoned), the extremely uncanadianness of the self centered far right rally masquerading as protest, the international damage, the foreign involvement from planning to funding, these are unique “protests” in numerous ways.

Their idiotic beliefs are only one of many distinctions I’ve pointed out, and as I mentioned only color public opinion and the amount of patience they’re given by the public, not how the government treats them. It’s not at all honest for you to pretend that’s the entirety of my position…it’s very Bob of you, and has lost some of my respect.

Pipelines crossing sovereign territory or preserves = bad so blockading those areas to force pipeline movement = good….oil companies didn’t truck the oil out, they increased shipments from other areas by rail. Read the article you linked.

Native cultures and governments are different. Pretending an elected board for a reservation works for the people is naive in the extreme. Read about politics on reservations, who funds the people that get elected in most cases, what happens to opposing candidates…saying the board signed off while so many showed up to fight against it seems a bit at odds, no? Like maybe the board members were bribed, had ties with the oil industry, or other conflicts….just maybe?

And again, those protests didn’t cost a fraction what the truckers did from my research. Delaying delivery of a billion in goods isn’t the same as costing a billion in losses. Neither is delaying or cancelling a billion dollar project. Be adult please….don’t make such specious arguments ….please. They don’t slip by, and they make me think you are being disingenuous.

Economic disruption of the blockades was similar to the Mohawk blockade of railways about 2 years ago:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ottawa-rejects-police-intervention-to-put-an-end-to-blockades/

Similarly, mass lay offs and multi-billions of dollars of goods stuck sitting around waiting to get to the industries needing them.

Since at least 2012 the attempted expansion of an existing pipeline(Trans Mountain) was targeted continuously by blockades. Opposition and resulting delays leading to cost overruns so large that company ultimately halted the multi-billion dollar project.

In terms of dollars being lost, the convoy protest wasn't special. More over, the blockade of the border in Ontario that was causing the real economic damage was dismantled and removed before the 'emergency measures' were enacted. Which is to state, the emergency measures were primarily intended to clear out downtown Ottawa. In downtown Ottawa though, the damages were at minimum as localized as any of the lumber or pipeline blockades mentioned.


Prime Minister Trudeau couldn't be more unequivocal when he was expressing his support for the farmer protests in India and the Floyd protests in the US. Clip if you'd like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9EaSF6Y0eE

The protests in India absolutely did immensely more harm to India's economy than the convoy here did in Canada. The protests in support of Floyd were again unequivocally more violent than the convoy in Canada.

There really is no basis by which to point to the convoy's actions and find them in any way unique or distinct from multiple other protests within Canada, or ones abroad that have been either given more latitude, or outright embraced and supported.

The distinction as even you can't resist going after, is that their beliefs they are protesting for are stupid and wrong, so no right to protest for them. That isn't how the right to protest within a democracy should be allowed to work.

I also have to point out the 'ethical' argument isn't as cut and dry as you want to make it out either.
-Pipelines bad so blockading is good ignores the fact the same oil gets pumped regardless, it just gets loaded into trucks that burn even more oil to haul it and have a fair greater risk of accidents and spills.
-Defending the rights and lands of Aboriginal peoples(like at Coastal Gas Link site violently attacked with millions in damages while the convoy was being vilified for 'incitement') is anything but obvious. The Wet'suwet'en hereditary leaders made claim to parts of the pipeline route and demanded it be shut down. However, the same Wet'suwet'en people's multiple elected Band Councils signed on with their wishes to proceed with the project. In fact, ALL elected representatives of ALL the Bands with land along the route had ALL signed onto the project and wanting it to proceed. It is in no way obvious that ignoring the will of those other bands to favour the conflicting claims of the hereditary leaders is clearly the most respectful of the people's wishes.

90%? You underestimate by 9.99% IMO.

I’ve seen assaults. I’ve seen disturbing the peace in residential neighborhoods 24/7 for weeks on end. I’ve seen what amounts to kidnapping (trapping people in their cars on the street and blockading them in).
BTW, we aren’t India, more money was lost at this one crossing than if you blockaded all of India for the same timeframe. In America, we don’t just let other people block our borders….that’s our thing!

No, the bridge was not part of a recent past long term blockade, no farmer blockade shut down auto manufacturing on both sides of the borders or weeks. You are incorrect.

Protests are acceptable, even if they cause inconvenience. Protests without an issue that last for weeks-months with the only intent being causing economic damage aren’t protests, they’re tantrums. These protesters didn’t know why they were there besides getting the liberal out of power through any means.

These “protesters” deserved nothing but ridicule, their anti vax position is ridiculous, they know it, and it’s moot because the mandates change with the severity of the outbreak, and are from both sides of the border….Trudeau can’t force America to drop our mandates, and border crossers must be vaccinated….period. Notice when the mandates being lifted soon was announced they didn’t leave but just changed their demands. It’s not a protest, it’s an economic blackmail attempt.

The problem there is most of the violence was not part of the BLM protests (despite the lies right wing media produced all 2020), they were often nearby, taking advantage of the lowered police presence outside the protests, and often was violence directed at BLM, not coming from them. The people terrorizing and inciting violence, shooting crowds, planting bombs, lighting fires, shooting police, etc were Proud boys and Boogaloo boys…far right anti protesters. The idiots carried their manifestos explaining the false flag operation when they committed their crimes, and were caught repeatedly.

They should have simply used tow trucks, confiscating every truck involved to be sold at auction to pay for some of the exorbitant costs, far more than all summer of BLM and anti BLM protests, btw.

This was a threat to your sovereignty, and wasn’t being addressed by other laws or means (sounded like the police chief was a fan).

Seizure is perfection, but should include oversight (I bet it really does, you aren’t America where we’ve made it legal for police to commit armed robbery with no oversight). Note- seizure is different from forfeiture. They’re likely freezing accounts, not seizing the funds, right? Details matter.

It’s not just what they’re protesting, they don’t even know that themselves, it’s how and where. That said, the total lack of support among the population counts. I would expect any protest protesting against it being illegal to eat live babies to get shut down fast, no matter how civil they were on the streets.

Lemme guess, a pipeline crossing sovereign native lands under protest? Going over aquifers? Through preserves? Pumping tar sands no one really wants?
Millions in damages are an hour of the truck protests. They’re designed to cost tens of millions per day…costing everyone not just the target of their protest.

No known connection to protesters, but you want there to be one and are upset they didn’t just fabricate one? It sounds incredibly likely they’re involved, but without evidence one shouldn’t assign culpability.

They have the right to say anything, they don’t have the right to silence all other discussion and action while they ramble and party for weeks-months because they have nothing to say, but are loving the disruption they’re causing. A strong democracy doesn’t support one tiny group negating the entire continent’s voice for months. That’s what this is, they said their peace by day 2, now it’s not a protest, it’s an economic attack trying to blackmail a country (nearly a continent) into abandoning public health for a TINY minority of morons who want special privileges.

@newtboy,

Finally we're talking about my Canada .

I'm agreed with calling 90% of what the convoy and truckers are protesting as being misguided, ill informed or flat out wrong. That however shouldn't be what the right to protest is based upon.

The extent of the protestors illegal activity seems to have been blocking of roadways and borders. Which in Canada isn't exactly new:
-Blockading of roads to logging work sites to "protect old growth forest"
-Blockading of roads pipeline construction sites
-Blockading of transportation highways and railroads

In the past 2 years alone, those various sites have seen blockades ranging from weeks to months. In virtually every single one of those instances the Liberal government went out to meet and negotiate with the protestors while allowing them to continue for weeks to months. In one of the biggest protests Trudeau himself went to meet with the groups in person. Trudeau has a video of himself praising the farmer convoy and blockades in India, declaring his government will always defend the right of groups to protest.(those groups blocked multiple border crossings)

This time though, Trudeau started out with insulting, ridiculing and belittling the protestors. Within the first day of the protests, politicians and our national news corp in CBC were demanding an immediate end to the protests.

The protests that have seen comparable zero violence to the protests in the US in support of Floyd(which I support), where condemned repeatedly by the CBC and Trudeau as terrorizing the populace and inciting violence. For reference, Trudeau remained steadfast in support of the Floyd protestors right to protest.

The federal government essentially tried insults and ridicule to try and end this protest though, and when that didn't work they invoked a national emergency measures act that requires both:
-A threat to Canada's sovereignty
-A threat that can not be addressed by any other laws or means

The government then proceeded to empower themselves to not merely arrest protestors, but to freeze/seize the bank accounts of anyone considered to be supporting the protest, with no court oversight required.

The difference in how protestors are treated based upon what it is they are protesting is alarming and should be a red flag for anyone and everyone.

For reference, while these protests were going on, a pipeline worksite in BC that has been continually shut down by protests for the last several years was attacked in the night by a mob wielding machetes and axes. The workers and security were chased off and millions in damages were done to the site afterwards. Trudeau didn't feel the need to even address the incident though because he was to busy villianizing the convoy. The CBC media buried the incident under local BC news, and downplayed it as an 'alleged' incident, despite RCMP having responded and even having had an officer injured in the incident. CBC also emphasized there wasn't any verified connection to the ongoing protests against the pipeline...

When you look at the narrative, despite my disagreeing with the vast majority of what the convoy is wanting to say, I am disgusted by the attempt to remove their right to say it and everyone wanting to support a strong democracy with the right protest should feel the same.

Tell me @newtboy how can she say this when Biden waived this pipeline sanctions?

If they "are" against this, would they not reimpose the Trump era sanctions or at least something?

Yes, duh Bob.
Trump polling at 36% was worse, so you just claimed fake polls. He inherited a strong robust economy, a system to protect from epidemics, far less debt and deficit, and no pandemic…no crisis. I don’t argue Biden’s popular, like you do Trump despite reality, I only argue he’s a vast improvement, the best that could be hoped for under the disastrous circumstances one Trump term put the nation in.

The people coming, largely Haitians, almost all say they’re coming because they saw American politicians say the American borders are open and accepting everyone. Those are Republicans saying that, lying to get their base riled up, but the Haitians living in South America don’t know that, they think they are being invited by the Republicans. Look into it, you’ll see that’s true if you do. Biden sent many back to Haiti, Trump liked to dump them back in Guatemala to try again.
This energy independence myth, just quit. We were not. There was a world wide oil glut in 2020 because the pandemic lowered demand so much suppliers actually gave it away at one point….that was not some genius Trump energy plan bearing fruit, it was the economy and industry collapsing thanks to an avoidable pandemic. As the economy recovers, so does demand but not production. You seem to want to blame Biden for basic economics.
My gas is the same as 2019+-$.25….you want to compare to 2020 because gas was cheap thanks to Covid. Yours might be more for some political reasons, like your unprotected pipeline got hacked by Russians, but you need to prove it, then prove Biden’s failure caused it, not just say it, and not by cutting and pasting some talking head’s opinion. My assessment is he’s improved security on infrastructure but I’m open to evidence to the contrary.

Lowering corporate tax rates didn’t lower unemployment significantly, it raised upper management compensation and corporate profits. Investing in infrastructure will.

That’s good you don’t want to debate more Covid deaths, because there’s more than enough blame for both sides even if you don’t look at 2020 that was all Republican stoked (anti mask, anti social distance, anti contact tracing). Keep in mind, since Jan, >90% of all cases are in the intentionally unvaccinated population, almost 100% of deaths, and remember who they are and who they follow…not Biden. Covid deaths this year are nearly 100% caused by political division and misinformation created and spread by one political side. Guess which. That’s not to say Biden’s perfect, he should have implemented vaccine mandates Jan 21, no exemptions without permanent quarantine, what was needed to stop more deaths by stupidity, but he doesn’t have the balls for dictating. You should be so grateful for that.

Blaming the Chinese without proof, or even evidence they are to blame, just supposition, is outrageously dangerous and provocative. Accusing them of creating and releasing it on purpose….against themselves….is simply asinine and proof you aren’t thinking for yourself or at all.

Mid terms always go to those not in power, so yes, 2022 will likely return congress to partial Republican control, which you will call a massive mandate against Biden unlike when it happened in 2018 and you just whined that it’s unfair.

>26% of Americans are Republicans. The rest are what you call socialist communists because you don’t know what those words mean. Your party does not represent your (alleged) country….and is shrinking. Democrats aren’t even my party, they are just the only achievable adversaries to the madness of the right at this point in time. Given a better option, I would jump….you can’t say the same. You’re deep in the death cult of personality the Right has become…a true believer.

Biden got money no president in my lifetime has to invest in America. Bridges, Roads, Airports, New water systems, Digital communication improvements, Overall improvements and long deferred maintenance of rail, New funding to fight increasing wildfires (Brandon)…all the things absolutely necessary for the nation to function as a first world nation. He’s already a big winner, and if we aren’t speaking Mandarin in 3 years he still will be. The fruits of his legacy will be enjoyed for decades to come, Trump’s legacy is economic failure, failure to protect from a preventable epidemic, massive unemployment, an administration so corrupt that the convictions of people in his administration or campaign almost certainly outnumber the prosecutions of members of all previous administrations combined while the severity of their crimes outweighs the combined national injury caused by all previous political crimes, and a division so strong one party actually tried to destroy democracy and install a dictator.

History is the judge of any administration, not the midterm, and history will look kindly on Biden, no so for Trump, mired in constant criminal scandal and failures to this day. The only president in our history to not peacefully transfer power, to be impeached twice, who clearly put his own interests above those of the nation at every opportunity. Death and division are his legacy.

Merry Mithra’s season.

Such nonsense.
Biden did not approve, nor is he helping build this pipeline. He chose to not sanction one Swiss company helping build the last 90 miles, but is still sanctioning Russian companies involved, and is likely to block it's certification and insurance (by banning any insurer from using international or US banking) without guarantees the Ukrainian pipeline won't be abandoned.
He decided not making Germany go dark was a better plan, not alienating a long term ally and strategic partner that we are trying to repair our severely damaged relationship with.
He also decided putting Russia in bed with the Chinese, their other option for selling their gas, was not a smart move.
He is clear, he is against this pipeline and is still sanctioning many Russian companies involved in it's construction.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/18/politics/us-nord-stream-decision/index.html

Those grapes must be really sour today @bobknight33, they've got your yummy tears flowing like a firehose....keep em coming. So yummy, you guys.

Edit: I'm curious why America SHOULD hold veto power over international projects approved by all involved countries on other continents. Should we stop pipelines because Putin says so? He could stop hacking them and just tell us to quit. It seems ridiculous that we are telling Germany they can't have more natural gas, and telling Russia they can't sell it.
For clarification, I'm against it for ecological reasons, yes gas produces less CO2 than coal and oil, but produces way more methane which is >25 times more destructive per molecule in the short term. 11 billion could have built any number of wave/tidal generation facilities that run 24/7 without a new source of greenhouse gases.

Psaki and the media puppies protecting Beijing Biden. He allowed Russia to hack our oil pipeline.

I knew you would fall for this. You're such a gullible tool.

The (ridiculous) story....
According to Giuliani, in 2019 Biden took 3 soaking wet laptops to a blind super pro Trump computer repairman, reportedly left no name and there is no signed receipt despite Rudy's lies, signed no agreement to pay, left no contact info, and never returned for these laptops full of incriminating evidence of crimes he's been cleared of by Republican Senate committees.... and after not repairing them the blind man found emails while illegally snooping and told the fbi, and the fbi told Rudy because they respect him so much, but forgot to mention the metadata proved the files were created months and months AFTER the anonymous owner allegedly handed them over to a pro Trump blind man (who admits he has no idea who gave him the laptops). They also neglected to tell him that what they're investigating is is this, as it looks, part of the Russian plot to sew division and confusion by feeding Giuliani fake information, a case they've built for years but every time they tell the president he either gets angry and ends the meeting or just replies "that's Rudy".
You're again spreading Russian propaganda, known to be by the entire intelligence community. The only investigation related to this is looking into Rudy's Russian ties, and finding out if Russian agents gave blind computer investigator these laptops or if he made them himself.

Failed again. Blatantly lying again. I was so hoping you would take this opportunity to show how smart you aren't since I read about it. I knew you weren't intelligent enough to look beyond the kgb partner OAN and insane liar who's being investigated as a Russian agent himself, Giuliani, clearly labeled by multiple agencies as at best a pipeline for Russian disinformation directly to Putin's bidet, Trump.
Sorry sunshine.

Edit: Here's a surprise, the reporter (for two whole weeks!) That broke this story, guess her last job.....time's up, Sean Hannity's show. Bwaaaahahahaha. That's the best you guys got!?! So ridiculously sad, hon. Even some Trumpsters can see through this bullshit, so you know everyone else can and has. Sorry sunshine.

it doesn't implement well in a VFX pipeline (though he argues it *could). lack of camera import/export, lack of AOVs, lack of geo import/export, lack of motion blur make it pretty much untenable. plus too many errors, aliasing, noise that would require a lot of work to clean up.

Fairly sure they're blasting to install a pipeline, not blowing up an existing one.