As a liberal (without TDS), I would prefer Trump just stay another 4, and we get a real Democratic candidate.

The good thing about Trump is that there is so much gridlock that neither party has the ability to pass any laws. Shit just coasts along without much change.

If Democrats win now, while TDS is in full swing, any law they pass will be an ideological (non-technocratic) over-correction.

I get that he's "the democratic party's man", but FFS, take things seriously for a change. Yang, Tulsi, Bern', all better candidates by far. But since they're not obedient party dogs I guess they're unsuitable for the job...

I mean, what's the logic? Hey, people are dumb enough to vote for a narcissist, so they must also be dumb enough to vote for someone brain damaged? Are they trying to double down on last election?

Really? This guy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FCGLidQN6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA-GoeFGyIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nl1b1rngXU#t=11m1s

I mean, his youtube campaign ad has him stumbling around for words. If that train wreck is what his own campaign put out, how bad were his other takes for them to say 'all right, this is the best we're gonna get' ?

If there ever was a campaign that embodied "party over country", this is it.

-scheherazade

You [redacted] lying waste of skin. That's an outright verifiable lie. The only thing you said that's true is Trump is snot....but that's insulting to snot.

The vandals and rioters have been filmed working with police who not only protected them as they vandalized businesses but directed them on exactly how and what to paint/break so it looks like protesters did it. In one video of many, the white masked vandal started smashing the sidewalk just feet in front of a large police line as they watched until protesters stopped him and shoved him forcefully into the police who only then finally arrested him....or at least pretended to. No word on who he is or with what group, but it's obvious that protesters are doing more to stop rioters than police/Trump's government. In another, a fat white woman is seen painting BLM and other slogans on a building while police watch, they then suggest she add "George Floyd", which she obediently does.

Watch what he personally directed the secret service and military police in DC to do to PEACEFUL PROTESTERS, not a vandal among them, full mounted attack using grenades (flashbangs can kill) rubber bullets, clubs, hooves, boots, and tear gas. Barr, at Trump's order, personally directed them to clear the way for terrified Trump to crawl out of his basement hidey hole just so he could go have a photo op at a closed church (and they are pissed at being a prop for his divisive political ploy), pretending he isn't hiding behind hundreds of armed guards even after removing all protesters from the area, and pretending he regularly goes inside, but we ALL know he doesn't unless the congregation is replaced with cameras and he's the only speaker, giving a sermon on how great he is, better than Jesus.

Trump personally, and his administration, have been clear, clamp down on protesters, dominate them, shoot and arrest them, treat them like the vandals , because it's in his interest to demonize the protesters. He's even toyed with having any that can be identified by any means deemed domestic terrorists and putting them in prison for 10 years. Absolutely zero distinction between the protesters and vandals (who so far those caught on video vandalizing have all been masked whites, likely Trumpsters trying to make the protests turn to riots and blame non whites and democrats for his divisive lack of leadership that has if not caused this situation, at the least exacerbated it exponentially).

Yet more brain numbing, verifiability wrong dumbassery by a Trumptard. Remember last month when your ilk invaded government buildings armed to the teeth? Trump stood with those rioters, even as they burn governors in effigy on the front porch of the governor's mansion, Trump calls THEM patriotic good people, and peaceful protesters in the streets, those are THUGS he wants shot. *facepalm the dumb is getting dumber daily.

obedient! for a cow!

So, because one guy, Noah, sucked hard as a proselytizer, God murdered everyone else?
It must have been his failing since his message was so true and undeniable, yet it was denied and ignored, right? Why not just kill him and prove the message by miracle? Better, why not make everyone KNOW, not guess or believe, he exists and go from there. Using unverified middle men to spread your message is just plain stupid when you don't have to, and downright evil when you then torture those who don't accept it from those con men.

Like I said, complete incessant obedient subservience and worship of himself and his son under threat of eternal torture for any found lacking. That's narcissistic insecurity with absolute power, not love. Edit:part of love is accepting or at least tolerating disagreement, even disagreeable behaviour, and murdering people you find unsavory is not tolerance, sending them to hell is far closer to hate than love.
You don't threaten people into "loving" you out of love. (and worshiping out of fear isn't love)
You don't murder millions because you love them, even when they're being naughty.

I believe in a guy named Jesus, he could walk on water when it freezes, and turn water into wine using his vineyard, but his mom was no virgin and his dad was a human being. Am I good?

God so loved the world that He tried to murder it, including all innocents; babies, unborn babies (proof God does believe in and practices abortion, btw), plants, animals, fungi, everything....according to your lore. Sure, the story goes he saved most (not all) species magically, but outright violently murdered 99.999999999999999999% of all individuals with a tantrum.

Then, to those few left, he demanded complete incessant obedient subservience and worship of himself and his son under threat of eternal torture for any found lacking.

That.
Is.
Not.
Love.

That's disrespectful distain and empty promises for those who meet his impossible, self contradictory requirements.

You kind of noted it yourself, but Saddam DID use hope as well. He spent lots of money on the people that were loyal, obedient or just kept their heads down. You just can't ignore that his approach of giving the people the choice of a decent life if obedient or the risk of a horrific suffering one for disobedience secured him great power for multiple decades.

Really? Jimmy Carter said that?!

Seriously, please quote where in the bible Jesus said any such thing. I think you're misquoting the holiness code for Jews from Leviticus and attributing them to Jesus. Those same rules disallow cotton poly blends and shellfish, but you probably never considered boycotting Red Lobster or the Gap, and allow slaves from neighboring countries but you probably don't have a Canadian house slave. Learn about the difference between Christian and Jewish laws don't just watch fake news. ;-)

Really, Bob, you want to say banging kids is liberal after Republicans supported Roy Moore?! Lol. *facepalm
Looting and other crime is not a liberal idea, that's nonsense. Bat shit crazy, hyper partisan nonsense. Some liberals want it to be so easy to cross borders legally that illegal immigrants would cease to exist, I've never heard a sane one support illegal immigration, only illegal immigrants.
Crime could more reasonably be said to be a religious thing, atheists are vastly underrepresented in prison populations. You might say atheists are statistically far less likely to be missing out on life.

No actual science has ever pointed to a creator God....or any god. Anyone telling you different is lying to you about what science is. The closest science ever comes to saying "...so there must be a God" is when it says "we don't know" to a question, often followed by unraveling the mystery and never by finding God hiding behind a corner.

Christians have a much longer and more storied history of ruthless torture and murder in the name of faith than Muslims. Their motto is also convert or die. Learn about them before attempting to make comparisons, maybe?

Obedience to the law like the recently pardoned terrorist group, the Bundys, practiced? Obedience to the law like the bakers allowed by law to display their intolerance against whomever they deem unclean? Obedience to the law like Trump, who's been found guilty of multiple frauds....admitted them in fact? Obedience to the law only when it's convenient or self serving, intolerance whenever it can be gotten away with is what the right practices today.
Maybe you're still a kid who has yet to take critical thinking classes? ;-)

JC also said man should no lay with another man. I don't make the rules, he does. Yes we all brake them. I am as guilty as the gay.

You closed mind is full of hate. I just have a different point of view. Wrong is Wrong. I don't hate. Are you from an abused / broken family? Join a good church and give you problems over to GOD.

But to your point of anything goes.. Anything? banging a 12 year old? Looting, crossing countries illegally? These are all Liberal ideas. Are these ok?


Atheist ? sound like you missing out in live. Science points towards a higher power with every new discovery.


Muslims are murderers by faith. Their moto is convert or die. Learn about them don't just watch fake news.

You POV of African Americans is BS.. Conservative want ALL people to succeed. Democrat policies have done more harm to the black than any other thing. Democrat want blacks to stay in their place for their vote. #walkaway.


Intolerance and obedience to the law are two different things.
Maybe you should have stayed in school and not on the pipe.
Maybe your still a kid who yet to realize truth yet.

The establishment clause was put into the constitution because of the church of England. This is why many people fled from England to America, because of religious persecution. It was to prevent a state religion, and by religion we aren't talking about Christianity versus Islam, we are talking about different Christian denominations.

Look at what George Washington said in his inaugural address:

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence."

Lyrics from https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/perfectcircle/disillusioned.html :

(Dopamine, on dopamine...)

We have been overrun by our animal desire
Addicts of the immediate keep us obedient and unaware
Feeding this mutation, this Pavlovian despair

We've become disillusioned
So we run towards anything glimmering

Time to put the silicon obsession down
Take a look around, find a way in the silence
Lie supine away with your back to the ground
Dis- and re-connect to the resonance now
You were never an island

Unique voice among the many in this choir
Tuning into each other, lift all higher

(Dopamine, on dopamine...)

Willingly been re-wired by clever agents within
Looping our reflections, our obsessions draw us in
Fix and fixation, no sentience beyond

We've become disillusioned
So we dive like crows towards anything glittering

Time to put the silicon obsession down
Take a look around, find a way in the silence
Lie supine away with your back to the ground
Dis- and re-connect to the resonance now
You were never an island

Unique voice among the many in this choir
Tuning into each other, lift all higher

You're right, it is 100 percent clear:

Matthew 5:17-18

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

In verse 17 Jesus says He has come to fulfill the law. In verse 18 He says nothing shall pass from the law until it is fulfilled. So, if Jesus came to fulfill the law, the only reason we would have to follow the Old Covenant law is if He failed to fulfill it. He came to fulfill it and fulfill it He did by living a perfect life and satisfying all of its requirements. He became the sacrifice for all sin, which is why the sacrificial system was done away with and the veil in the temple was torn asunder. God did away with that system and now everything is through His Son. This is why Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. This is also why He said on the cross "it is finished".

Now this doesn't mean that there aren't any commands for us to follow. However, we follow them under the New Covenant and we are justified by our faith rather than our obedience. This is called the law of Christ.

I went pretty in depth with my answer so it's a little bit disappointing to see you breezed right over it. If you study that more closely you'll understand the particulars of the hows and whys.

Why do you think Aesop can bear the weight of objective morality?

Really? Explain why. It's in there, as clear and codified religious law.

I'll give you a synopsis:

God established the law because of sin:

Galatians 3:19

Why then was the Law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator

The seed it is talking about is Jesus Christ, referred to by this prophecy in Genesis of the coming of the Messiah:

Genesis 3

14The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.

Sin came into the world through the transgression of Adam. Because of sin man was separated from God because God is holy and cannot dwell with sin. Because of sin God gave us the law as Paul referred to. Jesus, the new Adam, satisfied all of the moral requirements of the law by living a perfect life. He reestablished the relationship between God and man:

Romans 5

17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! 18Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous

This is what it means when it says He came to fulfill the law. He brought everything full circle back to the way it was before man first sinned. That is why the law is no longer necessary, because we are made right with God not by obeying the law, but through our faith in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus died on the cross He said "It is finished". It is translated from a greek word "tetelestai", which means paid in full. It something a merchant would stamp on a loan document that was paid up. He said that because He fulfilled the law and paid our sin debt on the cross.

This doesn't mean that there aren't any moral requirements for Christians, but they aren't the same as the ones given to the nation of Israel. We are under a New Covenant and the law of Christ:

Luke 22

19And He took the bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

Galatians 6

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Christ gave us commands to obey, one of which you mentioned: love your neighbor as yourself. Also, love one another as I have loved you and many others. All of the 10 commandments were reiterated although there is a deeper meaning and interpretation to some of them now. Do not commit adultery now extends to lusting after a women in your heart. Jesus also said that hating someone is murdering them in your heart.

The civil and ceremonial laws of Israel no longer apply exactly because Jesus did fulfill the law.

Treating others like you would have them treat you, the golden rule....what Jesus told you is the most important rule.

When Jesus taught us to treat others as we would have them treat us, it has force because He is morally perfect. We are morally imperfect. We tell people to do things we don't do, and tell people not to do things we do do. Can you name a single human being on whose shoulders we could place objective morals? If you can't then you can see the problem, I hope

Btw, here is a great educational site which is completely free

https://vmcontenders.org/all-courses/

1) The resurrection is absolutely not historical. Jesus the man MIGHT be.

There is a lot of scholarly research that says it is historical, especially in the last 80 years or so. There are volumes upon volumes of work, and there are a lot of things that deserve an honest and indepth discussion.

Almost all skeptical scholars affirm that Jesus was a historical person and that His disciples had an experience which convinced them that He was raised from the dead. Many agree that a group of women discovered the empty tomb. The origin of Christianity is something which must be accounted for, historically. You can't just wave your hand over it and say its all nonsense.

2) I know Christianity is a joke religion invented for political control by Constantine. That is a verifiable, historical fact.

On what do you base that conclusion?

3) mythos cannot verify mythos. You say Satan created other religions (many before Chritianity existed) to trick them out of worshiping Yahweh....why isn't that likely true of Christianity?

Because of the person of Jesus Christ, who is verified to be the Messiah from many lines of evidence. Some of these would include the fulfillment of dozens of prophecies, His life and ministry, and His resurrection from the dead.

4) not true. Verified truth can be proven and defended against being twisted with fact and evidence, at least to those willing to examine actual evidence and not rely on only propaganda and myth. God (if he existed) should have more backbone, and a clear, unambiguous word/voice. ( Your position seems to be he's not willing to stand behind his word and prefers most people burn in hell for their God given inability to distinguish which is which.)
How is it different from politicians? They aren't empowered by all powerful, vengeful gods....clearly neither are clergy.

I'm not sure why you think you are holding the keys of facts and evidence in your hand, first of all. Can your worldview account for these things? You would need to establish that before we can talk about what "verified truth" is. What is your worldview, by the way? I am assuming it is scientific materialism. Have you ever looked into whether it is correct or not?

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/is-scientific-materialism-almost-certainly-false/

5) ...you shall stone them to death.....thou shalt not kill. Not so clear.

I think that is easily explained. The laws you are looking at were civil laws which governed the nation of Israel. Consider that our society has a law against murder, yet we execute criminals. Same concept.

6) only those who believe are saved...so clearly the sin of disbelief is not erased and is worse than all others. If it's not automatic, he didn't die for MY sins or yours, he's trading being saved (from something he told you exists with zero evidence) for belief and obedience.

None of your sins would be erased if you reject Christ. You would be paying not only for unbelief, but for all of the other ones too. Unbelief is like any other sin execept that the consequence of the sin prevents you from receiving forgiveness. It is exactly like expecting your cancer to be cured without taking the cure.

Jesus died for the sins of the world, including mine and yours, but you cannot partake of the atonement unless you receive Him as Lord and Savior.

My evidence is not just what we are discussing. Jesus Christ is alive and He is with me every single day of my life. He comforts me in my distress. He encourages me when I feel stuck. He gives me strength to overcome things I otherwise couldn't. He gives me wisdom for every problem and situation. He gives me love for those I find difficult to love. He fills my heart with generosity when I want to be stringy. He helps me do the right thing when I am going to fall short. This is not abstract, but a living reality in my life that grows more and more. He has utterly changed me and made me into a completely different person just like He said He would.

7) things that only work if you believe are hokum or placebo, things that only exist if you believe enough are pure fantasy.

Without buying your system, I have no sin to repent so I should go straight to heaven and collect my $200.

That's kind of like saying you don't believe in the law so you think you won't be punished when you break it. You have to account for your sin whatever you believe you have any or not. Your conscience, however, tells you that you have done wrong things.

9) You have cancer and some guy tells you God sent a car (he just needs $50 for telling you about it), it's invisible, and will take you to the cure, but you must believe the car exists, and when you die sitting in the freezing street he says it's your fault for not believing enough in God's magic cars. Duh. I'll buy my own plane ticket and get myself there, not wait for ethereal magic cars.

Let's say that you got a sign that the car was legitimate, but you still stubbornly chose not to go. For instance, you had a dream that a green car with a florida license plate drove up to your house, and a middle age woman got out and came up to your door and told you she was sent by God to take you to the cancer cure, and then it really happened. Does that change anything for you?

Mostly the questions are for you, in hope you might see the contradiction and self reinforcing mythos, but your answers do offer insight to your (and other people's) intractable mindsets. Thanks

God had revealed Himself to me, personally, and verified the scripture in my as true. I know that He loves me, personally, and I know that He loves you too. My hearts desire is that you would know that love. That is my mindset, primarily.

1) The resurrection is absolutely not historical. Jesus the man MIGHT be.

2) I know Christianity is a joke religion invented for political control by Constantine. That is a verifiable, historical fact.

3) mythos cannot verify mythos. You say Satan created other religions (many before Chritianity existed) to trick them out of worshiping Yahweh....why isn't that likely true of Christianity?

4) not true. Verified truth can be proven and defended against being twisted with fact and evidence, at least to those willing to examine actual evidence and not rely on only propaganda and myth. God (if he existed) should have more backbone, and a clear, unambiguous word/voice. ( Your position seems to be he's not willing to stand behind his word and prefers most people burn in hell for their God given inability to distinguish which is which.)
How is it different from politicians? They aren't empowered by all powerful, vengeful gods....clearly neither are clergy.

5) ...you shall stone them to death.....thou shalt not kill. Not so clear.

6) only those who believe are saved...so clearly the sin of disbelief is not erased and is worse than all others. If it's not automatic, he didn't die for MY sins or yours, he's trading being saved (from something he told you exists with zero evidence) for belief and obedience.

7) things that only work if you believe are hokum or placebo, things that only exist if you believe enough are pure fantasy.

Without buying your system, I have no sin to repent so I should go straight to heaven and collect my $200.

9) You have cancer and some guy tells you God sent a car (he just needs $50 for telling you about it), it's invisible, and will take you to the cure, but you must believe the car exists, and when you die sitting in the freezing street he says it's your fault for not believing enough in God's magic cars. Duh. I'll buy my own plane ticket and get myself there, not wait for ethereal magic cars.

Mostly the questions are for you, in hope you might see the contradiction and self reinforcing mythos, but your answers do offer insight to your (and other people's) intractable mindsets. Thanks

Hard work: yup.
Family: yup.
GOD: Sure, gives simple minds something to do.
Obedience: To whom?
Work Ethic: yup.

BTW: "Truth" and "Opinion" are very different things. You oughta know that by now.

Or not.