According to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Case-Against-Skeptics-Bookshelf/dp/087975124X
(which I found to be an excellent read and you can download at a bunch of places for free)

...theism is: "The belief or unbelief in a deity beyond death". The definition in Webster's dictionary has changed since this book was written but I still subscribe the the old one. According to it, any belief about god at all... OR DISBELIEF... makes you a theist.

The book also goes on to say that whatever you define agnosticism as, the term seems to be used by most people as a way of renaming god, i.e.: "Nature is my god", "The universe is my god".

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. This is the way I've thought about it for a long time now. To me, most people who describe themselves as agnostic are usually just dipping their toe into the idea of calling themselves atheist while at the same time trying not to offend their religious peers.

So I define myself proudly as an atheist but I do not judge other people for their beliefs, because I do not presume to understand them.

(As crazy and backward as religious nutcases are. )

Yeah, no, I got that, I was just noting during the video that he was probably trying to employ the tactic of making a fool of the enemy to diffuse their power, rather than shooting back more hateful words.

And I do absolutely agree that the vid far too easily lumps all Muslims into the same basket as the nutjobs who are depicted in it, and I do disagree with that.

I disagree with the video for the most part, hence I haven't upvoted it.

But I do also disagree with organized religion as a whole anyway... although not people's right to follow whatever beliefs they chose AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HARM OR PREJUDICE OTHER BECAUSE OF THEM.


>> ^dannym3141:

>> ^spoco2:
However, there is also something to be said for making your enemies a laughing stock for reducing the fear they can inflict. Once you're laughing at your enemy they seem a lot less threatening.

The point kronos was trying to make which seemed to not quite land home with you - muslims aren't our enemies. SOME muslims are, not all. He's making a laughing stock of them all, and that's as bad as they are.
I agree with kronos on this one. As violent as he THINKS islam may be, christianity has done the same. Yet we have millions upon millions of people practising christianity without the violence, it's been edited out of the religion. Who is to say that's not the same way average muslims behave?
They have their nutcases who take everything literally and want to see terrible things happen and are willing to take steps to see it happen. And so do muslims.
(Do you c wot i did thar?)
Edit:
BTW bicycle dude above me - it may be obvious to YOU that he means those people, but it isn't "obvious". And you shouldn't let things like that rely on intuition, because you're trying to make a statement and reduce the ignorance.

>> ^spoco2:

However, there is also something to be said for making your enemies a laughing stock for reducing the fear they can inflict. Once you're laughing at your enemy they seem a lot less threatening.


The point kronos was trying to make which seemed to not quite land home with you - muslims aren't our enemies. SOME muslims are, not all. He's making a laughing stock of them all, and that's as bad as they are.

I agree with kronos on this one. As violent as he THINKS islam may be, christianity has done the same. Yet we have millions upon millions of people practising christianity without the violence, it's been edited out of the religion. Who is to say that's not the same way average muslims behave?

They have their nutcases who take everything literally and want to see terrible things happen and are willing to take steps to see it happen. And so do muslims.

(Do you c wot i did thar?)

Edit:
BTW bicycle dude above me - it may be obvious to YOU that he means those people, but it isn't "obvious". And you shouldn't let things like that rely on intuition, because you're trying to make a statement and reduce the ignorance.

The relevance is that fundamental islamic followers are moving to great britain and setting up here. I've heard a few rumblings in the past about certain areas in certain cities where nutjob muslims (yes, like there are nutjob christians too) refuse to speak any language other than their own, virtually ostracise themself from great britain from anything other than selecting which benefits of our country they want to live with. Such as jobseeker's allowance, child maintenance, free health care, housing payments, free schooling, free speech (especially this one), etc. etc.

There are many english speaking fuckbags who do it too. There are many people whose family history you could trace back hundreds of years to these islands, they're doing it as well.

I've also heard rumblings that some of these people want to bring elements of sharia (spell check) law into british law, allowing them to deal with 'their own' people in 'their own' way (not my words). I won't pretend that this is some major agenda being pushed by credible muslim groups in this country, it could easily be a bunch of isolated nutcases like the christian families in america protesting army funerals.

What i can say for certain is that in these certain areas of certain cities sharia law IS being practised. These little communities within a community set themselves up as being apart from everyone else and the people in there live how they like. I wish i could cite the documentary i watched on this subject but i can't, so i'm reduced to looking like an idle speculator.

Segregation of communities is CLEARLY a problem. I think it's been a problem for a while here in britain, we haven't worked hard enough to make sure immigrants grow to become part of britain. As a result, we are left with places like that in this country, and left with people voting for the BNP/UKIP because they feel like that's their only option left to resolve tensions in certain areas. It's why we're left with people arguing over schools, what's taught there and what isn't, whether it's fair for things to be included or excluded from schools, what you can wear to work, and so on.

The relevance of this question to me is establishing that there are elements of muslim life and religion from muslim countries that simply cannot be taken to other countries, and not just the death penalty for leaving the faith. That's what it meant to me.

The relevance could also very easily be showing that certain aspects of the muslim faith can't be visited upon other countries because it would be tantamount to a war crime. Replicating images of their god, leaving their faith. These things should only apply to their country, not internationally. Yet we've seen events where they ARE applied internationally by lunatics.

Yeah, you could call Obama a corporatist and I'm sure the republicans would love that. Though, Republicans are mainly the ones who have created this shit monster we have here. They were the OG corporatists - corrupting everything including your grandma's potato salad. I'm sure they love hearing this new vocab word "corporatist" as another word to toss at the "opposing side" and get all high and mighty about Jesus Christ, protesting scientific FACTS, humanist goals, healthcare and letting the top 1% take everything from their pea brained families and everyone elses.

But, one cannot proclaim anyone else is a corporatist unless that person tossing around the term acknowledges that this is NOT a democracy that we live in. It's completely misleading to toss around new "gotcha moments" and not put that out into the open. So, since this is NOT a democracy what difference does it make? If Obama is a corporatist what does that make the Republican party? Megalithic Elephant Testicle Sack Corporate Dingbats & complacent globalist murderers? Seriously, don't even listen to Ron Paul he is a Pro-life, Christian nutcase...

and I cannot even stop with that thought, here is the rest of my rant: everyone in that party needs to shut their huge gaping lie spreading mouths and open up their assholes to receive their nightly $10000000 fistful of cash up into there from good ol' Captain America (Enron, Bechtel, Lockheed, industry lobbyists, the couple of corporate media conglomerates showering the country with bullshit ideas, the insurance companies, big oil, etc etc etc) Open up, piggies! Eat your shit inorganic food, here's some shitty tuna and some shitty fries don't forget to chug it down with some high fructose corn syrup so you can get diabetes, let's watch your brains decay but only after you hand over your wallet to the top 1% who already own everything.

As much as I agree with highlighting the stupidity of these nutcases, I can't say I agree with the use of overly-dramatic music for this montage.

>> ^Mauru:

I like Max Blumenthal and his work but I can't help being under the impression that he intentionally fishes out the nutcases in order to make his reports more interesting. Can anybody recommend any good, "longer" documentaries with more footage?
Then again, maybe I am just a tad too naive about the level of brain-activity in the conservative movement.




You assume they even have brains, let alone use them for free thought.

I like Max Blumenthal and his work but I can't help being under the impression that he intentionally fishes out the nutcases in order to make his reports more interesting. Can anybody recommend any good, "longer" documentaries with more footage?

Then again, maybe I am just a tad too naive about the level of brain-activity in the conservative movement.

-We- are not all terrorists. Stack certainly was. The US government can arguably be described as such. You may be, I don't know. -I- am most certainly not.

If you want to worship this nutcase as a hero, that's your business. He tossed away far more than I have because he felt "abused" over the actions he himself started. He's nothing and less than nothing to me...a whiner, a coward, and a mass murderer.

I'm done with this ridiculous debate.

>> ^imstellar28:
What would you consider "Operation Shock and Awe" in Iraq? How are the United States as a whole, any different than this man? We are all terrorists.
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
^Quite possibly the worst argument you've ever made.
So... this act of terrorism is the opening salvo of your revolution? And Joe Stack is the father of your cause?
Shortest. Revolution. Evar.

Yep, complete nutcase. Given the number of videos that immediately surfaced of him getting violent, I have to wonder if he should really be walking loose...

Why are other countries growing in sciences, while the USA lags behind? Religious Nutcases.

Why are other countries been studying stem cell research for the past decade, and the USA is just NOW, getting around to it? Republicans

Why are students more interested in becoming lawyers, TV-reality waste-oids, and drug taking atheltes? Greed.

So, religious, greedy, republicans, are what is making the USA fall behind against other countries in the sciences. Heck, the Theory of Evolution and Creationism talk about two totally different concepts. One talks about survival of the fittest, and the other how everything got started. One doesn't talk about how the universe and planet came in to being. The other doesn't talk about (beyond the social injustices of 2K years ago) what happen SINCE, the start of things. But dont try to educate a religious idiot on this. They think it's just some trick of evil science to weaken their already lame faith, and even lesser ego's.

So yes, since science is not really that important to the USA. that will soon mean, engineering will not be to popular to study (since engineers actually do something with the crap scientists discover). And we won't have to worry about producing anything of value to anyone beyond the borders of the USA. Since they can already produce the goods and services they need.

Yes, lets all thank the greedy, religious republicans for this recession, which is just the start, in a long list of decomplishments (is that a word? Is now...), the USA will be known for, for the next few years, if not decades!

>> ^IronDwarf:
Do you have any actual evidence of a conspiracy that moved those Secret Service agents away from the car? Maybe, since JFK was in Dallas to bolster support for his re-election, he didn't want Secret Service agents all over the car, so folks could get a better look at him and his wife. Maybe it was something as simple as that.
Again, like with all the ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy videos you post, you have to bring some actual evidence to back up your claims. Not just, "well that was odd" and "that sure seems suspicious", and then leave it open to interpretation.


What cracks me up is you guys get so bent out of shape because we question the official story(s) when it's applicable to ask questions. There are discrepancies in both the Kennedy assassination and 9/11 that deserve to be questioned. If you think we are "crackpots" or "nutcases" for asking questions, then so be it. It matters not what you think. The "facts" remain to be questioned regardless of your opinion.

Surprised he didn't shoot it. I remember reading a story about a dog that jumped out of a family's car (i don't know why they were stopped but it transpired he'd got the wrong people and they were just a nice happy family with a nice dog) and some cunt of a cop shot it.

Before all the militants clamour up - i don't give a shit. I'm pretty sure i could judge a nutcase attack dog from any other type of dog in the 5 seconds window i had between it jumping out and crossing the ground to me before it became too late to actually defend myself. Given the choice between killing one innocent dog and taking 5 seconds of a vague risk of being bitten, i take the risk and i'd want my police force populated by same. This is an offtopic disclaimer!!! Pre-emptive reply to the gunfreak militant psychopaths that we have on the sift!!! Sorry to drift offtopic!!!

Anyone else wondering why, after reading out a piece on a man enjoying child porn, they are asking the question "Why leave it on your desktop?"

I've got an answer to every question - he's a nutcase, he enjoys child porn, that's not normal. Abnormal is your baseline.

I'm not going to downvote you, you raise a point.

However, I do feel the need to ask a few things.
What possible reason other then either being a bible thumper or homophobe is there for objecting gay marriage?

I'm asking legitimately. Two people love each other, they want the same treatment as everybody else. Unless it's wrong in the eyes of the lord, or you don't like seeing a man holding another mans hand, I see no actual valid reason for it. They still pay to be wed, if they want children, they have to adopt..which means a child gets much better care then it ever would if it doesn't get adopted, and that way everybody's happy.

Now, Beck says he opposes Illegal immigration, big difference to just immigration. I can understand not wanting illegal immigrants, even though they too are just a group of people looking for a better life, but the ones who come over legally, apply for a visa or citizenship.. if they take a job away from an American, then they deserve the spot more then the American, they were more qualified.

I don't see the point of denying the holocost, when there are still survivors OF the holocost, and documents, eyewitness accounts, films, and still photographs proving that millions of Jewish people were encamped, and killed, during WWII. True, you can argue that you don't care about the jews, you just don't believe it happened.. but I don't understand the reasoning for it. Any hard look at the facts would prove that it happened, and unless you really did have some ulterior motive you'd change your views.

Of course you can oppose policies without being a racist, anybody claiming you ARE one is a loon. Obama is NOT the first ever president of the u.s.a. and as far as I know, for each and every president before him, there was at least one group of people that thought "Hey..we don't like you, or your policies, BOO!"

You can oppose the war on terror without hating the troops makes no sense to me. Most people who are against the war seem to be against it because they feel that American blood shouldn't be shed in a senseless war, and want to bring them HOME. I don't understand your point there at all.

Abortion, I agree with you on. My mother is adopted, and while I'm still pro-choice, she is against abortions. If whoever gave birth to her decided on having an abortion instead, she would never have been here.

Look, I'll stop picking apart your post now, because I know the point was actually to promote having an open mind, but your examples given are slightly..flawed. By all means, if you have means to correct me, do so, I will gladly look at all the evidence given to me. But honestly..
some things, some pre-concieved notions, they're honestly true.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I hate to say it but, despite the hypocrisy, Beck has a point.
I know I'll be downvoted into oblivion for saying this, because I've been through it before, but maybe one or two of you will hear the message and understand it.
You can oppose immigration without being a racist.
You can oppose Obama or his policies without being a racist.
You can deny the Holocaust without being an anti-semite.
You can oppose gay marriage without being a homophobe.
You can oppose the US Government without being a terrorist.
You can oppose the War on Terror without hating our troops.
You can oppose hydrogen powered vehicles without supporting big oil.
You can oppose abortion without being a Bible-thumping misogynist.
You can oppose war without being an appeaser.
Do many people oppose gay marriage because of their hatred of gays? Certainly. Do many people oppose Obama because of racism? Clearly. Are some who deny the Holocaust anti-semites? Probably.
But some people are just mislead and some people are just nuts. Some even ( gasp ) have different and legitimate opinions. We've gotten to this place where any level of disagreement warrants the most extreme vocabulary that can be conjured and the liberals are just as guilty as the conservatives.
You want to know why there's no progress in government? It's because of radical preconceived notions. Anything the left proposes is Nazism, Fascism, Marxism or Socialism. They hate good Christian people and the country. Anything the right proposes is Nazism, Fascism or Discrimination. Nobody even hears the other side because they've decided ahead of time what those people will say.
And the vast majority of you here on the sift are the same way. Open your eyes and ears. There are a lot of people with differing and/or opposing viewpoints to yours and not all of them are nutcases who want to destroy the country. You serve nobody's interests by shooting them down with extremist labels before they've even had the chance to make their case.