I've said before in other comments that earth is home to many worlds. Each of us creates our own world with what we know or don't know. Some know they are artists. Others don't know or don't believe it.

Since the bible has been the biggest stumbling block on earth ever created, religions have been created that separate us. Don't get me wrong. I have been an atheist. I was raised as a Catholic and had to go to church every Sunday. I hated going because it was so damn boring and confusing.

Love on the other hand was something different. Something I could relate to just by some of the hot babes that were in my classes in school! I could feel the love there. But my love was limited. I hated being kissed on the cheek by Aunt Mary because she always got lipstick on my cheek and her breath stunk. Pretty shallow, I know.

Stick with me here.

It's been said or at least I've heard, God is love. That was simple. Brief. But it was also puzzling. Is it God or is it love. Which is it?

The only way it made sense to me was, God is the character name of the person reading the book. I don't need to believe in God. I just need to believe in myself. That helps me believe in others.

I learned that by losing someone I love.

Since then people tell me I should stop smoking cigarettes. I tell them that if I quit smoking today and then die in a car accident next week I'm going to be PISSED!

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one -John Lennon


All alone, or in two's
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands
The bleeding hearts and the artists
Make their stand
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall

Isn't this where

-Songwriters: Roger Waters

Absolutely not at the cost of my rationality or sanity, which is the bare minimum price to believe such impossible, clearly debunked stories about Gods and demi Gods. If I was going to adopt a mythos, I would go Viking, it's so much more interesting and less self serving than any form of Christianity, which is largely nothing more than a poor mishmash of older religions/political propaganda from Emperor Constantine.


Besides, with no heaven or hell, I need no saving. He could only save me from the tortures he brings with him. (sin and hell)

You still haven't touched my original questions.

A simple "no" would also work.
This is all NOMA nonsense. Religion tells me HOW to go to heaven? Really does it now? What heaven? how? Whats religion´s method? if two competing religions has different ways of getting to heaven, or even outright contradictory hows(Such as Islam (No heaven for you if you believe in Jesus) and Christianity (No heaven for you if you dont believe in Jesus)), how the fuck is that a "how" at all? It isnt. Its superstitious bullshit from A to Z.

Religion has never in the history of humanity told anyone anything worthwhile new, or interesting on any subject. Thats because it relies on faith, revelations and dogma. While science does this on a weekly basis because the entire concept relies on rejection of all forms faith, dogma and revelation, in favor of evidence-based reasoning. Thats the truth.

I'm an atheist, and I believe in the possibility of consciousness transcending mortality. The difference is that I don't think that you have to behave in any particular fashion for that occur. No heaven, no hell, no reward, no punishment.

And it's a real shame too because there's loads of religious people out that who would most definitely going to hell.

Hey, check out the background behind him.

Says "The Heritage Foundation".

Remember, this is the kind of person that Heritage promotes.

This is the kind of shit they peddle.

So, whenever you hear or see any sort of "study" from them, remember this guy, and how objective and rational he was.

BTW, here are the lyrics to Imagine:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Scary stuff for guys like this. A place with nothing to kill or die for, a place with no need for greed and hunger, and people living for today, sharing all the world.

Nightmares for people who want to kill, are filled with greed, think only the undeserving go hungry, and that sharing is just a plot for those same undeserving to steal from the righteously wealthy.

Ya know, the enemies of mankind.

"I dont want to bore you with numbers"

No, heavens no, dont bore us with numbers. Come on, back this up the way Peter does or show your boobs.

Because that's a great way to torture someone. . .
"What am I doing here?"
"Sir, I have attached a plug to your heart!"
"Heart Plug! Wait what?"
"I pull it out and I tear a hole in your heart."
"And is it painful?"
"Oh, no heaven forbid! You just stay quiet while you peacefully bleed out."
"Ah . . . Why not just shoot me?"

>> ^Doc_M:
... man is sinful and that sin leads to separation from God (by its nature... "the second death"). This is an oversimplification but, since sin is such direct rebellion and leads to this separation from God and thus "death" (not of the body, but of the soul), something of great value must be sacrificed in its place... And Sin has no place in Heaven so nothing tainted with it can enter, by nature.


I've heard that before, I think, but what I don't get is why god, as the all powerful ruler and maker of everything, didn't just change the rules. Obviously as the creator, he had to have set up the whole "sin = no heaven" system in the first place, so he could just change the requirements for entrance into heaven and instead of requiring people to enter without sin (ie. by performing sacrificies while still alive to atone for their sins), he could only let people in that:

1. believed in him
2. were truly sorry that they had sinned
(this is basically my understanding of the current system as most christians believe it)

Since he must have been able to do this, yet chose the whole jesus route, I have to wonder why. Was the whole "final sacrifice" thing sort of a public relations stunt to get the attention of the sacrifice-minded Jews and/or pagans of the time?

Benjee, you say that life is more meaningful being an Atheist. And you said that this happens because "we know this is it, there's no heaven or hell or afterlife."
So is what you're saying meaningful? If this is it, then why is anybody going to listen to you? You contradict yourself by saying life is meaningful but yet, this is it. If this is it, how is what you do meaningful? Because if this is it, then nothing matters, and there's no right and wrong.
And also you haven't established what "more meaningful means."

And Rickegee, I didn't make fun of you at all. I'm trying to really have an intelligent conversation and discussion. Please don't try to start irritating people.

You don't make any sense, and could not be any more wrong Chang:

Athiest's lives are more meaningfull, as we know this is it. There's no heaven or hell...we have just a few decades to understand ourselves and each other before nothingness. We have to take responsibility for ourselves, exactly because there is no 'higher power' to "forgive us of our sins"...just our own conscious and society!

Because we're not constrained by millenias old ideology; we can think for ourselves and realise the true value of people, honesty, history & science. Not the indoctrinated political creations of various empires and movements over a comparatively more recent time. Instead of me attempting to understand grammatically void comments of no meaning, can you guys just watch either of my above two linked vids, or any of the below before posting (will save me plenty of futile typing):

Richard Dawkins responds to Jerry Falwell's students
The Root of All Evil with Richard Dawkins - pt 1
BBC interviews Richard Dawkins about "The God Delusion"
Why do Atheists Care? One man's thoughts
The doomsday code: documentary (one off, 1:41)
Horizon - A War On Science (BBC Documentary, 49mins)
Biologist Ken Miller on Intelligent Design (1:57)

If this guy's going to heaven, I'll take one ticket to hell, please.
Just kidding - there's no heaven or hell.