Guess that's what mormons do for fun. Nice!

Amateur night, everyone knows if Mormons show up you put out the gargoyle. Mormons disappear and gargoyles remain well fed.

upvote for "oh no, mormons".

LMAO

I never thought you'd see a Mormon state name some parkland after the Mother Of All Blowjobs.

Although it had a bit of a propaganda sort of vibe to it at the end, that was pretty funny and self-aware / self-deprecating.

If it *was* something put together / sponsored by Mormons, they were Mormons with a sense of humor, at least...

ive never been to the middle east, but for various reasons had friends from several different countries in and around the area. i think the answer is simple: muslims, like christians, jews, mormons are not all alike (ok not sure about the mormons!), and even if you have a st augustine or a ghazali saying thats how it should be there will always be those who disagree, vocally or quiet like. Hes right that the culture changed, and he's right that its tragic that arab scientists are basically the butt of a joke, but i think its difficult to ommit that the peak of arab science also coincided with a peak in their power and resources. How many african nobel prizes are there in that period? or from indigenous peoples? Im not saying they are stupid, just that its difficult to get an award for cutting edge top notch science when you are at a serious deficit in resources.

So theoretically one can feel the need to be a Mormon, and in spite of that remain a good person (even though one is aware of the publicly available information about the church). Ok.

I wonder how far we can go in forgiveness for weird needs. Out of respect for all the many good people who are also Mormons I shall present no embarassing examples of weird needs. Especially not my own.

Like its understandable for grandparents (or most other relatives) to be mildly racist and smoke, its also fine if they are Mormons. If they are good people. Beyond that I am not so sure. Not all churches and religions are the same.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/conversion-via-twitter-westboro-baptist-church-megan-phelps-roper?

Fascinating read into how one of the Westboro daughters came to leave the church. Not that I wish to equate Westboro to Mormonism quite, it just gave me greater sympathy for those trapped inside, and an insight into how even the most hardened dogma can be eroded if given enough time and compassion.

@newtboy

Wishful thinking on your part, Newt Dear. You both dearly want people to not want religion.

Billions of people choose religion. Some fake it. Some leave. Some hate it.

My brother grew up in a secular household and has been a devout Mormon for 40 years. I grew up in the same household, and find the idea of organized religion intellectually embarrassing.

Both of you are railing against the preponderance of evidence you are surrounded by. SOME people are drawn to religion. This is just a part of human existence.

I find it so odd that both of you want this fact to be incorrect. Humans create religions, which lead to churches. They have done it for millennia. How you can look at the evidence that surrounds you and say it isn't so baffles me.

It's all good. Just like my brother, you want to believe what you want to believe.

I don't try to argue my brother out of his dogma. So I'm going to stop trying to argue you guys out of your dogma.

That goes to show that those people, people who said they "needed the Mormon Church for their own spiritual and emotional well-being" really didn't need it. Does it not?
I must stand with @ChaosEngine ...absolutely no one needs any church for spiritual or emotional well being, but many many people have been convinced BY the church that they do need it.

NYT says it outright. Most of those resigning haven't gone to the church in a long time, and you know they haven't been tithing.

Need to get the tithers to step up to the plate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/us/mormon-resignations-put-support-for-gays-over-fealty-to-faith.html?emc=edit_th_20151116&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=4
0977923&_r=0

I've been reading these news reports closely.

I am afraid that the people resigning aren't "core" Mormons, with temple recommends. I am afraid they are people who have already drifted away from the church and now they are making a political statement that isn't going to make a difference to the church leadership.

One person was quoted, in another news report I read, that they hadn't gone to church in 17 years and they were resigning today.

Having said that -- I am 100% convinced that the Mormon Church will eventually allow gay people full membership. Because, even if few of these resigning are "core" members of the church, more and more gay kids are coming out of the closet. And as they become more visible, as they are more and more accepted as human beings "made in God's image", it will be harder and harder for parents' to choose their church over their children.

And there is a mechanism for change in the church -- hence full membership for blacks when it became impossible to continue the overt 1800's racism of the originators.

It's coming for the Mormons. When loads more people quit and take their 10% tithing with them... well, the Mormons are excellent business people. They aren't going to cut themselves off from their revenue stream.

I say it will be within 30 years. Maybe even sooner.

I think if someone is in a particular church -- or not -- or whatever they are personally drawn to -- IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS TO JUDGE THEM.

If they need it, they need it. Whatever happened to them in their childhood, or whenever -- the church -- whatever church -- or non-church -- fits them.

You are an atheist, right? I don't know if you grew up in a church or not. I don't know why it is so terribly important to you to be an atheist.

But it FITS you.

It is the height of judgmental righteous behavior to look at anyone else's choice and say it is wrong.

Am I a Mormon? No. I agree with you. How this church started is the height -- or the depth -- of religious absurdity. How anyone can choose this church as an adult? How can that be.

And yet. My brother -- who has a Master's Degree in Aerospace Engineering from USC, military pilot, history buff, wide stripe of artistic urges and talents -- this guy chose the church in his early 20's. For his own reasons. Because he needed it, coming from our family of origin.

To quote Jerry Maguire -- it completed him. And like love, it is illogical and not for anyone else to judge.

You don't like religion being all judgey? I recommend you stop doing it yourself, and let people be.

Now, the Mormon church getting involved in the laws of the land? I got a big beef with that.

But as for individuals, making individual choices, for individual reasons.... I gotta say I don't see much difference between your judginess and any Catholic priest laying down "God's law" about how people are "supposed to" believe and behave.

You see that, don't you? There is no difference between your judgement and any religious person's judgment?

Leaving aside that the mormons are on barely on the legal side of sexism, racism and homophobia (to say nothing of the unfathomably dubious origins), if someone WANTS to stay in the church, well, that's their problem.

I'd probably think they're kind of an asshole, but whatever, maybe they have a nice (aka white, straight) community or something.

None of that explains why you think that anyone (good or otherwise) NEEDS the mormon church.

A sense of community, or spiritual well being can easily be had outside the mormon church (or any church for that matter). I admit that it would be difficult if your whole family was in the church, but it'd be difficult if your whole family was in the klan too.

"Many people, many good people, need the Mormon Church for their own spiritual and emotional well-being."

No, they really don't. They might think they do, but they're wrong.