Tags for this video have been changed from 'Star, Wars, PC, Game, MMO' to 'Star Wars, PC, Game, MMO' - edited by kulpims

Hmm, not sure about this. I love the fact that the ES games allow you to level through skill use and have first person combat, which are tings that don't happen in MMOs.

An Elder Scrolls MMO has "fail" written all over it.

>> ^MonkeySpank:

The entire concept of selling you a product with a verbiage that your personal copy/account can become obsolete any time Blizzard feels like you have broken the EULA seems draconian to me. I am surprised there hasn't been a class action against these MMO firms. If I want to sell my WOW account, I don't see why Blizzard needs to be involved. Last time I sold my car, I didn't recall the manufacturer canceling the warranty or reprocessing the car. Activision/Blizzard and EA have some sordid lawyers, and they'll keep on pushing micro-transactions while barring the rightful owners of the purchased product from doing the same. Assholes!


I don't know. Look at it like this. You go to Chuck E. Cheese and buy 50 bucks worth of tokens. First thing you do is go over to the skeet shoot and climb up the ramp and start dropping the balls in by hand so you always get max points.

Chuck E Cheese has obvious rules you have to play by, like "don't climb on stuff that shouldn't be climbed on" and the general way to play a game. They can kick you out and tell you to never come back and now you have a handful of tickets and tokens that are only good there at Chuck E Cheese.


Blizzard is on the hook for storing and preserving the integrity of their game. Versus with a car, the manufacturers have no obligation to your vehicle....you have to maintain it, register it, etc. Blizzard does all of that because by the very nature of the MMO, without it you wouldn't have a game worth playing. Everyone would be cheating, modifying their characters, creating new ones from scrap and generally making any mechanics of the game worthless beyond maximum damage, maximum run speed, and GM locked commands. You could do anything if they didn't preserve the character content and reign in abuse. Plus your stuff only has value because they do this. And they do this because without it, the game would be shit.

I mean I guess if you setup your own blizzard server and maintained the game integrity, you could make an argument that you should be able to sell things without their stopping you. Since you are on the hook for whatever trouble it causes on your server....but otherwise you are making them responsible for the person you sell it to, plus you both hold them responsible for making access to these characters possible. And you hold them responsible for making sure their fraud system doesn't detect someone across the world now logging into your accounts.....etc etc. All for free. Hell they don't even move a character to another server for free..they charge stupid money for that kind of stuff.

The entire concept of selling you a product with a verbiage that your personal copy/account can become obsolete any time Blizzard feels like you have broken the EULA seems draconian to me. I am surprised there hasn't been a class action against these MMO firms. If I want to sell my WOW account, I don't see why Blizzard needs to be involved. Last time I sold my car, I didn't recall the manufacturer canceling the warranty or reprocessing the car. Activision/Blizzard and EA have some sordid lawyers, and they'll keep on pushing micro-transactions while barring the rightful owners of the purchased product from doing the same. Assholes!

Seriously, ME2 was way better IMO. One has to have some seriously whacked out expectations not to agree. They are very formulaic but the only Bioware game I haven't enjoyed their film/linear formula is their excursion into MMO stardom. Its just so fucking boring.

>> ^braindonut:

I LOVED ME2, more than ME1, which I also loved. I can't wait to play this...

did anyone else get the feeling he was ranting against MMORPGs in general more than he was ranting about SWTOR?

But yeah, I'll admit my bias as I am playing the game and liking it. I totally agree that all the standard MMO complaints about quests and enemies all standing in random spots confined to a small area are ridiculous. MMOs need to undergo a major evolution, IMO for them to be truly fun but for now I totally accept that I have to live through the shitty parts of MMOs to experience the fun stuff.

Tons wrong with the review this week.

I've played a Sith marauder to 50, and can honestly say most of what he's bitching about is either not true, or non-existent.

The multi-group chat options in instances (or quests, for that matter) start off by giving everyone a random roll, and the highest roll wins and gets to speak. However, everyone else in that roll now has a +(x) bonus to their next roll, so it's not always one person dominating the conversation.

The same roll system applies to the light/dark options, but if you choose the good option, and someone chooses the bad option, and they win, the quest storyline DOES go down the "Dark" side, but you don't get dark points. Quite contrary, actually, because since you chose the light side option, you still get light side points.

Every class has party members, up to 6. Corso Riggs (The guy with the harpoon) is the first one you get, and can be replaced by level 20 max. (haven't fully done the storyline on smugglar yet) But you also always have at least two romantic options later down the road, too.

PvP is also actually pretty balanced, not once have I really said "Wow, that class is overpowered." The only reason PvP was "Unbalanced" was because the system they had in place was a "bolster" system, so level 10's and level 50's could be in the same pvp match, and the level 10 would be bumped up to level 50 base stats. The problem though was that the gear level 50's had was rediculously good by comparison giving them an unfair advantage.. Which is why three patches ago they made level 50's get their own battleground, and it's now just 10-49.

And.. for the record.. your morale alignment really doesn't mean shit all. You unlock very few things by being either full light or full dark, and they have equivilent items to them that don't require you be either.

Basically, if you're going to spend a week gathering information on an MMo, then don't even freaking bother reviewing it.

/rant

Ultimately, the service they would provide would be content before any of the knock offs. Plenty of companies have tried to make knockoffs of wow, some even with otherwise very compelling universes in the baggage (lord of the rings online, warhammer online), but no one has come close yet. Star Wars the Old Republic might, but I doubt it. A rose by any other name is still WoW. And right now they have a critical mass of users, which is all they need. They could shit in a shoebox and call it Mist of Pandaria and millions will buy it on the release day.

Sure, there exists private servers of Wow at this point too, and some people like to play on them, but for me? I wouldn't even want to. There's no challenge when everything is possible. I'm certain that even if a joint effort between developers of all sorts banded together to copy and create an MMO like wow, it would likely be crap, because they have no other incentive to make it than "because we can". Design decisions based on that are not good - look at linux. Even Mozilla is a company nowadays. A command structure is essential in creating a massive work of art in a reasonable time.

Making a copy of WoW isn't "just" making a copy of WoW, it's enormous. By the time someone has copied it to the finer details, the game will have moved on to something else; systems change all the time.

A good example of something happening like you say is Vampires: Bloodlines where the community made a huge amount of "community patches" to fix the game, after the developer went bankrupt. I like that, but they could do it because the things they were fixing were straight forward. If they wanted to make entirely new things, who decides which things are good and bad? Like wikipedia, they would need custodians. A private company like Blizzard does not have that problem.

I was certainly a little too broad when I said all intellectual property is bunk. First of all I have a problem with the umbrella term of IP. I don't think it's helpful. Different types of IP have different solutions and problems. Some are more bunk than others. (Wtf is with they way rights to music works? What is it now, 100 years after the artist dies? Crazy.)

Like you I am philosophically on the "you can't own ideas, man"-wagon, but practically I'm more loose with my morals - hell, morals are fluid baby.

I'll say this. I would rather have 50000 people playing my game and 50 people paying for it, than I would have 50 people playing my game and paying for it any day.

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is the most plausible way I've seen anyone square this circle. I'm just not sure it really holds up to scrutiny.
Philosophically, I'm in the "information isn't property" camp, but I also put food on the table by creating intellectual property.
The confluence of my own philosophical tastes on this topic would be that not only should "making copies" be legalized, it should actually be criminal to withhold any sort of scientific or engineering advance from the broader public, especially for selfish gain.
But, I think that would essentially destroy software companies as we know them. I think Blizzard & WoW would have trouble making the case to people that their service is worth $140/yr. That's especially true in the kind of world in which any content they generate can just be copied by a knockoff service provider just as easily as the original copy of WoW was in the first place.
I have trouble even imagining what sort of service they'd be able to compete on in that world. Uptime? In-game customer service? Best policing of player misbehavior? It can't be bugfixes (copyable), and it can't be content (also copyable).
I think ultimately WoW would have to become something more like an open source project -- the community provides all bugfixes and content gratis. Blizzard ultimately would have to give up any kind of creative or engineering control at that point, and also give up on having a revenue stream of millions of dollars a month, too. They'd just be a glorified hosting company. Companies like Microsoft probably wouldn't even be that.
It'd probably be better for the whole world that way, but not so awesome for incumbents in the industry.
You know, people like you and me.
>> ^gwiz665:
Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.
You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.
I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.
I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.
The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.
Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

I think this is the most plausible way I've seen anyone square this circle. I'm just not sure it really holds up to scrutiny.

Philosophically, I'm in the "information isn't property" camp, but I also put food on the table by creating intellectual property.

The confluence of my own philosophical tastes on this topic would be that not only should "making copies" be legalized, it should actually be criminal to withhold any sort of scientific or engineering advance from the broader public, especially for selfish gain.

But, I think that would essentially destroy software companies as we know them. I think Blizzard & WoW would have trouble making the case to people that their service is worth $140/yr. That's especially true in the kind of world in which any content they generate can just be copied by a knockoff service provider just as easily as the original copy of WoW was in the first place.

I have trouble even imagining what sort of service they'd be able to compete on in that world. Uptime? In-game customer service? Best policing of player misbehavior? It can't be bugfixes (copyable), and it can't be content (also copyable).

I think ultimately WoW would have to become something more like an open source project -- the community provides all bugfixes and content gratis. Blizzard ultimately would have to give up any kind of creative or engineering control at that point, and also give up on having a revenue stream of millions of dollars a month, too. They'd just be a glorified hosting company. Companies like Microsoft probably wouldn't even be that.

It'd probably be better for the whole world that way, but not so awesome for incumbents in the industry.

You know, people like you and me.

>> ^gwiz665:

Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.
You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.
I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.
I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.
The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.
Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.

You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.

I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.

I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.

The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.

Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

>> ^longde:

Wow. Just wow. If rampant piracy existed in your country, or the key markets for your products, you wouldn't have a livelihood.
How can "service" or "design" stop outright duplication of a work?
So, if I completely duplicate WOW, from the look and feel to the name, and everyone flocks to my servers, that's just tough nuts for Blizzard, right?>> ^gwiz665:
Reproduce all you like. That said, I'm just a part of who makes it, so the official stance on piracy etc etc is not my call. But for my 2 cents, piracy is a service issue. You can design your way out of it.
>> ^longde:
I find it wildly ironic that a VIDEO GAME DEVELOPER decries the concept of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.
To use your analogy: so it's OK if I independently reproduce your video games and make money off them.>> ^gwiz665:
Agreed. If I built a ford out of parts I made myself, down to the fucking molecule, it still wouldn't be stealing. I have not taken anything from anyone.
Intellectual Property is a phantom dreamed up by those who want to control information. Information wants out. Information wants to be free. In the end it cannot be controlled.
Make a better service, then software piracy becomes a moot point.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
STOP CALLING IT STOLEN! The entirety of human culture is stolen by that kind of logic. You can only steal something that is a limited resource, of which bits really are not.

>> ^Asmo:

I don't get this fascination with 'beating' WoW, if a game makes money and returns on investment, and it's players enjoy it, isn't that the definition of success? I personally hate EVE gameplay but people enjoy it and the company makes money. So it doesn't kill wow, it's an entirely diff game and appeals to diff people...


Also I don't agree that you "kill" a game that has reached the amazing success WoW has. There's no such thing as a WoW Killer...there's just the next logical step in gaming. Which I believe now is SW:TOR with it's fully voiced quests and all that jazz, it makes me feel like I'm playing a single player game. That's all I've ever wanted when soloing in a MMO.

Finally broke away from WoW after almost 7 years now isn't it? That's incredible...I've been playing an MMO for almost 7 years that's just horrible.

Oh well back to Star Wars the Old Republic

>> ^JiggaJonson:

Yeah... I'm pretty much done with MMO's that charge you a monthly fee. I'm waiting for Guild Wars 2.
p.s. I would have made a Jedi and knocked @gwiz665 's faggy double lightsaber in the dirt.

Yeah... I'm pretty much done with MMO's that charge you a monthly fee. I'm waiting for Guild Wars 2.

p.s. I would have made a Jedi and knocked @gwiz665 's faggy double lightsaber in the dirt.