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Plane Ran Out of Fuel at 41,000 Feet. Here's What Happened.

CrushBug says...

OK, hold the fucking phone here. This video is just a disaster. It is flippant and glossing over the facts of what actually happened. This story is a favorite of mine, so I have done a lot a reading on it.

This happened in 1983 (36 years ago).

>> Do planes seriously not have a fuel gauge?

There is specifically a digital fuel gauge processor on that plane, and it was malfunctioning. There was an inductor coil that wasn't properly soldered onto the circuit board. At that time, planes were allowed to fly without a functioning digital fuel gauge as long as there was a manual check of the fuel in tanks and the computer was told the starting fuel.

The problem is that fuel trucks pump by volume and planes measure fuel by weight. The fueling truck converted the volume to kilograms and then converted to pounds. He should not have used both. In 1983 ground crews were used to converting volume to pounds. The 767 was the first plane in Air Canada's fleet to have metric fuel gauges.

The line in the video "the flight crew approved of the fuel without noticing the error" glosses over how it is actually done. The pilot was passed a form that contained the numbers and calculations from the ground crew that stated that 22,300 kg of fuel was loaded on the plane. The math was wrong, but unless the pilots re-did the numbers by hand, there wouldn't be anything to jump out at them. He accepted the form and punched those numbers in to the computer.

The 767 was one of the first planes to eliminate the Flight Engineer position and replace it with a computer. There was no clear owner as to who does the fuel calc in this situation. In this case, it fell to the ground crew.

>> I would hope there is a nit more of a warning system than the engines shutting off.

If there was a functional digital fuel gauge, it would have showed them missing half their fuel from the start, and the error would have been caught. Because there wasn't, the computer was calculating and displaying the amount of fuel based on an incorrect start value.

That is another problem with this video. It states that "they didn't even think about it until ... and an alarm went off signalling that their left engine had quit working."

Fuck you, narrator asshole.

In this case, low fuel pump pressure warnings were firing off before the engines shut down. They were investigating why they would be getting these low pressure warnings when their calculated fuel values (based on the original error) showed that they had enough fuel.

>> I can't believe the pilot's were given an award for causing an avoidable accident.

The pilots did not cause it. They followed all the proper procedures applicable at that time, 1983. It was only due to their skill and quick thinking that the pilots landed the plane without any serious injuries to passengers.

They ran simulations in Vancouver of this exact fuel and flight situation and all the crews that ran this simulation crashed their planes.

"Bad math can kill you." Flippant, correct, but still not quite applicable to this situation. Air Canada did not provide any conversion training for dealing with kilograms and the 767. Not the ground crew, nor the pilots, were trained how to handle it. They were expected to "figure it out". That, and the elimination of the Flight Engineer position, set these situations up for disaster.

Trump publicly blows his cover for national emergency

newtboy says...

Embedded swamp Trump. Yes, that sounds right.
Trump and his people have all been guilty of what he called swamp behavior to an extreme never seen in America, so many removed for abuse of office and theft, most while being praised by Trump. He didn't remove any for their crimes, he's only removed people for not properly kissing his ass and repeating his lies. Those removed for criminal malfeasance were often removed against his wishes and with his praise.

These are his people...the "individuates" he chose and hired. I agree he did the right thing firing most of those he did fire, but absolutely the wrong thing when he hired them and the wrong thing again with those he replaced them with who are usually worse....and worst of all he didn't remove the swamp monster in chief, you know, the one pumping stagnant feculant water into Washington by the metric ton.

No Bob, many were treasonous crimes, all were intentional crimes of moral turpitude. Hiding tens of millions paid to you by Russia and testifying you have no ties to them, that's not a process crime as you pretend, and was happening during and after his campaign and 100% for Trump's benefit.
Flynn, you can't trap someone who isn't committing a crime. They only trapped him into lying under oath about the crime he had already committed for Trump and at Trump's direction....subversion....when they already had proof he had done it. Duh.

How many of Trump's "best people" are convicted of being unreported foreign agents? How many in Obama's administration were?

Please stop spouting moronic lies, Dimitri, and give us back the Bob that knows English, please. When you start spouting clear insanity like this paired with losing your grasp of what you claim is your native language, we know another agent is posting as "Bob" today, and he's the one who's like an angry 6 year old trying to make political arguments with no knowledge whatsoever besides which party the players belong to.

bobknight33 said:

With all the leaking going and embedded swamp Trump in his administration Trump had done the right thing to fire/remove those individuates.

WRT Muller investigation. most process crimes and crimes that occurred before Trump or unrelated to Trump run for POTUS.


WRT to Michael Flynn,-- pure set up to entrap Flynn.

AOC Exposes The Dark Side - "Let's Play A Game"

enoch says...

this right here is what drives me absolutely bonkers.

you proceed from a false premise:
that "wealth" translates to being less corruptible.

blindly ignoring what wealth actual not only IS,but what it represents to the elite class in America.

power.

so could we please STOP with how much trump is actually worth,as if it has any inherent meaning in terms of power?


i do not understand wasting time with an ideologue,or dissecting his obviously conflicting comments as somehow expressing a clear and definable philosophy.these people play in the realm of cult of personality,spectacle and magical thinking.

their adoration for a particular public figure is cultish,and has very little to do with reality but more how their idol represents an ideal that they feel very strongly about.

so are we really surprised that bob will give Alexandria ocasio cortez a nod for exposing how easy it is to corrupt the system,but then conveniently excuse his idol and give him a pass based on the flimsiest of reasons:wealth.

when it was Alexandria ocasio cortez's lightning round that exposed how it is actually EASIER for the executive branch and the president to sell their influence for money.

but to bob,and how he sees things,the very idea that trump would ever engage in a breach of morality,and break his promise to the American people...is preposterous,...because trump already has money,why would he sell his integrity?

because BOB has integrity.
because BOB would never break a promise.
this is basic projection of ones morality onto a figure they admire.
we can apply the exact same metric to those who voted for Obama.same thing.same results.

you will never get bob to admonish his hero,because that hero represents the IDEA of what bob is projecting,not the actual reality.

fundamentalists engage in the exact same magical thinking.

so how can i get mad for bob,and the other trumpsters of the world?
i pity them.
because delusional dreams always crash on the shores of the real eventually.

and that is going to be a sad day for bob.

scheherazade said:

Bob said that her line of argument (selling regulation policy changes for self enrichment), is less of an obvious motivation for someone who enters politics already wealthy.

That's a perfectly fine statement to make, as there is less to gain.

-scheherazade

Old Guy Takes Down Two Big Trees

Chaucer says...

Cedars are very bad for the environment. They are water hogs and produce a metric shitton of pollen. Glad to see these trees go.

Dr. Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh Testify

newtboy says...

Probably not most Democrats, but some. Democrats are far worse at ignoring disqualifying foibles and voting for their team no matter what, which cost them the last election. If you had slapped a red tie on Charles Manson's corpse and made him the candidate, most Republicans would have voted for him.

Totally agree about his message being an obvious lie, and that people bought the lie and ignored reality.

Not viewed that way by everyone. Carter is by far my favorite president of my lifetime, before, during, and after holding office he beats each and every one easily by any metric. That man almost single handedly eradicated the guinea worm, he's a God damn planetary hero.....and the last honest man in American politics.

Mordhaus said:

I'm pretty sure that if the tables were turned and somehow Hillary ran as a Republican, the Democrats would have voted for Trump as well. We tend to overlook things like reason and sanity in the USA when it comes to people/teams/etc that we hate.

Plus Trump was selling a message that a lot of people bought into, that they were somehow going to go back to a time when factory and coal jobs were a thing for middle class union type people. People who didn't work in those fields knew it was bogus from the get go, but when you live in a shitty area and desperately want to scroll back progress so that you can get your guaranteed 30+ an hour job/lifetime pension without a college education, you tend to overlook small things like guys grabbing pussies.

You are right, in a sane country Hillary probably would have been elected. She also probably wouldn't have been eligible to run because she would have beaten out Obama in 2008. She didn't because people were so desperate for something, anything to change in our fucked up government that they went with Obama. Hell, I even voted for him the first time. But, we lost our sanity sometime around the period when elected an actor over a generally 'nice guy' kind of president. Said actor/governor then instituted the following amazing things:

* The War on Drugs - utter failure
* Reaganomics - depends on who you ask, but it pretty much fucked us for years to come.
* Wonderful changes and cuts to education - See previous. They are still trying to undo the fuckery that was done to education in the 80's.
* Increased military spending to astronomical levels - pretty much fucked anyone not working for defense contractors.
* Destabilized Nicaragua and pissed off Iran worse at us - yeah, that didn't work out for us.
* Largely ignored the AIDs epidemic - tragedy on multiple levels.
* Etc

That fucker is still viewed as one of the best presidents and Carter as one of the worst.

Ants building "bridge" to attack wasp nest

Trump Won't Win

Mordhaus says...

It was clear he was going to win once the democrat mafia forced Hillary down our throats again. There were a metric fuckton of people who were forced to either sit out the election or sadly vote for the worst possible person just because the dems wouldn't fairly let a candidate be selected.

I DID NOT want Trump to be President. At the same time, I COULD NOT vote for Hillary Clinton. Had Bernie ran, I would have jumped ship and voted for him like I did for Obama. I am willing to bet there were a lot like me. The sad thing is, as much as I dislike Hillary, if she is forced on us again I will have to vote for her. I don't want to, but at that point it will be the lesser of two evils again.

Hawaii on red alert as volcano ash plumes ground planes

Sheriff Rips NRA - You’re Not Standing Up For Victims

hatsix says...

So... having an armed guard didn't deter this shooter... and this shooter, unlike many others, did not have a death wish, he went peacefully once found.

It's impossible to know how many shootings ARE deterred by armed guards.

But, we can know how many school shootings were stopped by armed guards... My quick search shows one shooting was stopped by an armed guard just days after, but nobody seems to have any statistics on how many armed guards stop shootings... If you're going to make the assertion that "guards are effective at engaging threats", you need to show numbers. Certainly, with as many politicians who want this to be the solution, and with the monumental rise in school shootings over the last decade, there should be someone, somewhere, capturing metrics on this sort of thing.

My position: Schools have a hard time paying teachers a reasonable salary... I doubt they're going to be getting top-of-the-line security guards... They'll be hiring retired, ex-military cooks who've had weapon training but never been shot at.

harlequinn said:

The narrow case (one guard failing to execute his duty) does not negate the broad case (that guards are effective at deterring and engaging threats).

I can't believe I have to point this out. On videosift no less. I'm flabbergasted.

"Destroys". Hyperbole of 2017.

Healthy As a Horse

TheFreak says...

Gupta then talked about his interaction Tuesday with Trump's doctor, Navy Rear Adm. Dr. Ronny Jackson.


"It was interesting when I spoke to Dr. Jackson. At first he said he passed all the tests with flying colors," Gupta said. "When I asked him specifically about that test, he did then concede that, in fact, the president does have heart disease."
"They're going to be increasing the medications, including the cholesterol-lowering medications to try and combat that, but there's no question, by all standards, by all metrics, anyway a doctor or cardiologist will look at it, the president does have heart disease."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369287-sanjay-gupta-by-all-standards-trump-has-heart-disease

The Truth About The Tesla Semi-Truck

MilkmanDan says...

The video is right that pretty much the number one most important question is the weight of the truck (basically tare weight, which is actually the tractor plus empty trailer). When I watched the announcement, I thought Musk was slightly cagey about that, but I thought that he said that it would be in the ballpark of a normal ICE semi. Guess I should watch again.

I think Musk made some semi-optimistic predictions about battery tech improvement and economy of scale. Frankly, I think he's earned the right to be semi-bold with his predictions, given his and Tesla's track record (paying off govt. loan very early, single handedly pushing forward battery tech and production, etc. etc.). His optimistic predictions have a tendency of panning out.

The average American is never going to switch to an electric car purely or even largely for "green conscious" reasons. The switch will happen when the electric car is better than the ICE alternatives in concrete metrics like performance, reliability, and operating cost. Musk is pushing that date forward at an incredible pace. Arguably it is already true for many use-cases at the high price-point range of the Model S, but that price point limits the scope of the impact quite a bit. He knows that to really shake things up, he's got to get that price point down, and he knows that to do that he's got to improve the economy of scale on battery tech. Which he's doing by expanding it into adjacent markets like home batteries, etc.

I think he deserves a lot of credit for "walking the walk" when it comes to working hard to protect/improve the environment, as opposed to Al Gore et al. "talking the talk".

Tesla New Semi Truck. Also surprise Tesla roadster unveiled.

newtboy says...

Um...but, again, before Ford made internal combustion viable, the electric car was center stage, almost alone on the stage....even with the horrible batteries they had in the 1800's. Granted, there weren't many other options besides steam.

It's well past time for it to return imo.

It's not just sad it's criminal that before it got a second shot it had to prove it could beat combustion engine vehicles in every way, not just ecologically and economically, but in every performance metric as well. Now that it has, I still expect major pushback from both car and oil companies and their lackeys. Fingers crossed that they fail this time to rig the system again.

PS, are you using speech to text, is there a problem with the Russian to English translation program you've been issued, or should we be worried about Wernicke's aphasia? ;-)

bobknight33 said:

Yea to all that but I was think it of Its time for center stage has finally com.

Dystopian Fiction: How Reading Transforms Your Mind

cloudballoon says...

TL;DW! I jest, I jest! I remember I used to read metric (yes, METRIC) tons of books during my formative years. Novels, fiction, non-fiction, comics... I read Times & Maclean's (Canadian equivalent of Times) magazines front-to-back... like over 90% of all articles every week. But high-speed internet & smartphone happened then I don't read prints very much anymore. Still read/watch news too much though, but it's now more depressing than educational with the stuff I read online. The journalistic standard is way down.
Much harder to find really enlightening long-form reporting these days.

gramar explaned | exurb1a

Sagemind says...

"You know the rule: "i" before "e," except after "c." A rule that is immediately followed by a metric butt-ton of exceptions: "either," "neither," "weigh," "neighbor," "caffeine," "weird," "protein," "feisty," "conscience" ... and then approximately 10,000 more words. So it's less a rule than a thing that ... just happens, sometimes. Like a tornado."

Steve Jobs Foretold the Downfall of Apple!

Mordhaus says...

As a former employee under both Jobs and Cook, I can tell you exactly what is wrong with Apple.

When I started with Apple, every thing we were concerned with was innovating. What could we come up with next? Sure, there were plenty of misses, but when we hit, we hit big. It was ingrained in the culture of the company. Managers wanted creative people, people who might not have been the best worker bee, but that could come up with new concepts easily. Sometimes corporate rules were broken, but if you could show that you were actively working towards something new, then you were OK.

Fast forward to when Cook started running the show, Steve was still alive, but had taken a backseat really. Metrics became a thing. Performance became a watchword. Managers didn't want creative thought, they wanted people who would put their nose to the grindstone and only work on things that headquarters suggested. Apple was no longer worried about innovating, they were concerned with 'maintaining'.

Two examples which might help illustrate further:

1. One of the guys I was working with was constantly screwing around in any free moment with iMovie. He was annoyed at how slow it was in rendering, which at the time was done on the CPU power. Did some of his regular work suffer, yeah. But he was praised because his concepts helped to shift some of the processing to the GPU and allow real time effects. This functionality made iMovie HD 6 amazing to work with.

2. In a different section of the company, the support side, a new manager improved call times, customer service stats, customer satisfaction, and drastically cut down on escalations. However, his team was considered to be:

a. making the other teams look bad

and

b. abusing the use of customer satisfaction tools, like giving a free iPod shuffle (which literally costs a few dollars to make) to extremely upset customers.

Now they were allowed to do all of these things, no rules were being broken. But Cook was mostly in charge by that point and he was more concerned with every damn penny. So, soon after this team blew all the other teams away for the 3rd month in a row, the new manager was demoted and the team was broken up, to be integrated into other teams willy-nilly.

Doing smart things was no longer the 'thing'. Toeing the line was. Until that changes, nothing is going to get better for Apple. I know I personally left due to stress and health issues from the extreme pressure that Cook kept sending downstream on us worker bees. My job, which I had loved, literally destroyed my health over a year.



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