>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Hey Net, I agree with you and am in pretty much the same area as you... I would like, however, to point out what runs your opponents' mindset. Fear.

I get that. But...I generally give people the benefit of the doubt about being able to engage their rationality and quash their fears. Get people to think about what they're reacting to a little more, and see if it really makes sense.

Obama has the codes to launch America's nuclear weapons. Obama is, as President, Constitutionally immune from prosecution of crimes -- he could go on a mass murdering spree, and all we could legally do is impeach him. He's allowed to negotiate and sign treaties on our country's behalf (though it won't necessarily have the force of law without Congressional approval).

This has been true of every President since Truman (and before that we just didn't have the nukes).

Presidents wield lots of power, but less than most Prime Ministers from other countries. In other countries, there is essentially perfect party discipline, and flat majority rule. No vetoes, no filibusters, no unanimous consent, nothing.

Being able to use pure influence as the head of state to negotiate a voluntary agreement seems perfectly kosher by any standard. If BP gets denied redress via courts, believe me, we'll hear about it!

Hell, if someone gets screwed by this ICF, we'll hear about it!

It's one of the built-in benefits of having a Democratic president -- their critics always get easy access to a media megaphone. The scary part happens when Republican presidents get the media to systematically silence dissent...

Wow, that Starbucks commercial that opens the clip makes me want to hunt down and kill the director. And when the guy says "express your love" into a megaphone, tightly bracketed by the ubiquitous AE video noise effect, it makes me wish for nuclear apocalypse within five seconds.

>> ^Stormsinger:
::shudder::
So you want to force all those Sarah Palin types (you know, the ones that can't even -name- a magazine or newspaper, or find a polling booth without a personal guide) to cast votes on issues they can't even name, much less spell?
God save us. If you don't know what the issues are, you have no imposing your ignorance on the rest of the country...stay home on election day. Please!
I actually -would- support a literacy (or civics) test for voting, except that the people who make and administer the test will change, and sooner or later we'd end up with bigots and ideologists in charge. (If you doubt that, remember how our current Supreme Court tossed out nearly 100 years of precedent to give the speech of CEOs a virtually infinite megaphone.) Putting such control in those hands is even worse than being ruled by the opinions of morons.
You would also get all those disaffected folks who are reasonable, but don't really think anything will ever change. Forcing everyone to vote would probably not have a polarizing effect, it would more likely have a normalizing effect. If you want to work, or drive, send you kids to public school, get social security, or food stamps, then you should have to fulfill your social obligation, and take half a day every two years and vote. I fail to see how that is so scary.

::shudder::

So you want to force all those Sarah Palin types (you know, the ones that can't even -name- a magazine or newspaper, or find a polling booth without a personal guide) to cast votes on issues they can't even name, much less spell?

God save us. If you don't know what the issues are, you have no imposing your ignorance on the rest of the country...stay home on election day. Please!

I actually -would- support a literacy (or civics) test for voting, except that the people who make and administer the test will change, and sooner or later we'd end up with bigots and ideologists in charge. (If you doubt that, remember how our current Supreme Court tossed out nearly 100 years of precedent to give the speech of CEOs a virtually infinite megaphone.) Putting such control in those hands is even worse than being ruled by the opinions of morons.

>> ^dgandhi:
The unwashed masses in the US are equal part moderate/conservative, it just sounds good to the anti-democrat folks who are sure that it's stupid(read black or immigrant) voters that keep them out of power. Such a test will likely have no effect on elections unless it is used to unequally disenfranchise.
I suggest, instead, that we do the opposite, institute a fine(say $100) for NOT voting. Both parties clam to be the representatives of the "silent majority", let's see who's bluffing.>> ^Enzoblue:
Ok, I understand the room for corruption in a literacy test, but can someone explain to me what would be wrong with a test that made sure people where competent enough to know what the heck they were voting for and aren't just taking the side of the very last smooth talker that got them riled? I know there's tons of room for talk here, but I'm having a hard time being against a sheeple filter.

i am with Nordi on this.
plutocracy.
many here have made some good points but let me add a few that have not been mentioned.
let me do this by asking a question first?
how?
how was this even able to occur?
the answer is simple as it is insidious and subtle.
propaganda or as the federal government quaintly calls it "council of public relations".
this entity purposely chose this name due to goebbels giving "propaganda" a bad name.
considering that america has over 2000 media outlets which are only owned by 5 people/corporations,
is it any wonder that the average american population is unsure,ill-informed and kept squabbling in a divisive polemic?
they own the largest megaphone on the planet and use it like a bludgeon to keep people arguing over trivialities while the house burns down.they keep people fearful and suspicious of their neighbor.they have people convinced they are powerless and impotent to stop what is transpiring.
instilling apathy or fear. both work for those who seek to empower themselves and keep you quaking with dread in the corner,or so apathetic you do nothing.either end justifies their means.

well...ok.they have a pretty powerful propaganda machine.
how is it able to work so effectively besides the obvious?
indoctrination.
basically..in short.the public school system.
i have already shown my ire and indignation towards this abomination on another thread.
but suffice to say it is the public school systems very own curriculum that prepares young minds to tacitly accept the authority of the state.
NCLB teaches very little but specific information while disregarding the VITAL importance of teaching critical thinking skills.so students may test well but never learned the tools to not only question authority but have the ability to formulate the question in the first place.
go to school.
get good grades (a meaningless,arbitrary measuring system).
go to college or trade school.
get a job.
marry and have children.
then be a good consumer and buy buy buy:
a house,a car every three years,a big screen TV and more superficial crap in order to impress your neighbors how "successful" you are.
you are taught from a very young age that your worth is based on beauty and how big your bank account is.
your worth to american society can be measured by your ability to be a good consumer.
fail at that and america has the largest private prison system just waiting for to fill their cells.
either way... you are disposable.

one last thing.
what if the corporate propaganda machine does not work on you?
what if you were a pretty clever monkey and were able to slip through the indoctrination of public schools.
oh..they have an institution for that and it is BRILLIANT!
religion.
dont want to play by the rules set up for you to be a good consumer slave?
well they have a special place for those who do not obey god.
so..you are not afraid of the government?
you saw through the indoctrination of the public school system?
you think you are so clever but god has a place for those who do not obey.
oh no...not in this lifetime.
but the one AFTER,when you die.
so you dont want to obey the rules.
ok.
but just know that after you die god will judge you and send you to a place to burn and suffer.
for eternity.
it is brilliant in its simplicity.
and it all comes down to the same thing,every single time.
FEAR.
the most influential and divisive emotion ever is FEAR.
they got you as a child,as an adult and even after you die.
WORK-OBEY-CONSUME

once you recognize these tactics it is not very hard to walk away from them and ignore them.
but first to have to recognize the puppet strings in order to do that.

"people should not be afraid of their governments.governments should be afraid of the people" V

I'm unimpressed when responses fail to deal with substance. Level up your debate profession. Facts are facts. Fox News is conservative infotainment. ABC/CBS/MSNBC/CNN/AP/PBS/NYT/AP/USA Today are liberal infotainment. For the white house to 'declare war' on a news outlet just because they disagree with their positions is pretty lame. But that's the Obama WH all over. They're professional media manipulators. Most media outlets are politically sympathetic, so it doesn't take much. I'm glad there is at least one channel out there fighting the good fight and actually doing some real journalism as opposed to just being a megaphone for White House talking points.

I was glad in the Bush years there were so many news agencies who were so willing to call Bush out on his baloney. It is sad to see these people become so willing to just bend over for Obama & his crap. Quite pathetic, actually. The wholesale abandonment of journalism by the news media in favor of blanket, unquestioning fanboi propping of Obama is one of the greatest betrayals of public trust in a long time.

^ Use of a megaphone during a protest actually is illegal in the US.

(I'm not condoning that, just stating the fact)

Funny, the last time I saw this happen in America, the megaphone user was violently arrested, as well as half a dozen people who were videotaping it.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'everything is ok, culture jamming, public, megaphone, rant, society, hugs, police' to 'everything is ok, culture jamming, public, megaphone, rant, society, hugs, love, police' - edited by calvados

If you were a police man, who would you rather beat up - a guy with an AR-15 and thirst for statist blood or some kid who likes yelling in a megaphone and maybe throwing a trashcan through a window? I would think that easier prey would be obvious.

"Take my gun from my cold, dead hands" vs. "Peace man, don't harsh my buzz"

>> ^NetRunner:
^ I've noticed that too. Crackpots with AR-15's go to where the President is to threaten violence over universal healthcare, and cops don't do shit.
Anarchists show up to peacefully protest globalization, and jackbooted riot police come with sound cannons, nightsticks, tear gas and god knows what else.

>> ^NetRunner:
^ Actually, I thought the guy with the megaphone was fantastic.


Really? He seemed like a smarmy attention whore to me. His megaphone legal analysis is not very impressive. What does he think he's going to accomplish there? He's trying "teach" the cops or something? They shouldn't be your target audience if you have grievances with the G20 leaders.

This whole spectacle is stupid. It's 90% photographers and cops. It's theater and "meta protest".

The police vehicle was pretty interesting, though.

^ Actually, I thought the guy with the megaphone was fantastic.

After sifting through their BS for awhile... i found this on their site.

"The organization has been in existence for more than 10 years.. "

It isn't a new group... and their message hasn't changed. Where they've been dismissed in the past, now they make for good 'news' and TV. Really the only difference.

The 'pep' rally analogy is really pretty accurate. Both are just a bunch of people, many in costumes, shouting into megaphones getting themselves all worked up. But if you arn't part of the group your bound to think it's pretty damn silly.

Damn we should have put some of our rallies online... people might have really believed we WERE #1... Go team...

Excuse me i'm going to be sick.

>> ^bobknight33:
Let the free market decide the price of health care and let the individuals / Government punish /fine / jail/ those insurers who willfully F@#k over people.


Didn't your 'free market' recently, sans lube, fuck the asshole out of the world economy? Sink the US further in debt? Tank the mortgage market? Force the taxpayer bailout of dozens of companies? Oh the free market works wonderfully when times are good but when corporate greed finally butchers the cow rather than milking it and revenue dries up, guess who comes cap in hand for free money? The 'not so free anymore' market. Surprise sur-fucking-prise.

The free market is incapable of providing quality, affordable health care. It's been proven over and over again. And if there is a push for more oversight to punish the exploiters, the same people shouting down a public option will be shouting that government oversight = socialist interference with the free market.

As for Pennypacker, seriously pal, every piece of "evidence" you provide is either corporate sponsered or right-wing capitalist propaganda. There is not a single piece of objective non-partisan, non conflict of interest information in there... And you use that claptrap to argue with World Health Organisation and OCED stats? Or ignoring the point made by Mr. Weiner, voters would have a choice. If voters flock to the public option, it's a blatant fact that private health cover has failed...

Fair and balanced? Lol, does it even hurt anymore when the right wing nuts shove their megaphone up your butt so the appropriate sounds come out of your mouth?

and oh....notice how the sound reception doesnt really change between when he uses the megaphone and when he doesnt....microphone? which would = disneyland shennanigans (sp?)