You outright liar. (Nothing new)

Since you claimed you HEAR a beat BEFORE it can be SEEN, which is 100% backwards and something someone in the field should definitely know, you've been silent on that thread, hiding from your mistakes as usual.

Yes, facts are correct, you just didn't offer any. You gave your opinion based on ....who knows what, not medical science. Not reality.

You did not prove a thing, you rambled, listed your alleged career, claimed knowing doctors doesn't make you one, then said you know what your talking about because you know lots of doctors, etc. You gave no citations or backup for your claims, that there's a heart at 6 weeks, claims which I contradicted with multiple citations from medical sites, including instructions for the Doppler that contradicts you too.

You were proven wrong, and as usual you just hid from the thread. Try again.

And Kevin Bacon was in Footloose…

Really solid video. Abortion is a medical procedure which has to be available to those who need it. Until a pregnancy reaches the point of viability outside the parent, I don't see any room for debate as to whether abortion of that embryo / fetus should be legal, and entirely the choice of the pregnant person.

What *shouldn't* be legal is harassing anyone trying to access healthcare, in any context. But of course, there *isn't* any other context that I can think of where people are regularly harassed. I suppose it's been happening to some degree lately with vaccine stuff, but that's likely to be temporary (and the Venn diagram between anyone willing to harass people over vaccines and over abortions seems likely to have a LOT of overlap).

Lol....and we're supposed to think you know about it? Then why don't you? Why didn't you just read instead of eating more shoe? (By putting your foot in your mouth again)

"Beating occurs earlier, at the very end of the fifth week or at the start of the sixth week, when the heart is immature and lacks most of its identifiable features, including its iconic chambers. The heartbeat shows up around this time or shortly after as a flickering motion on an ultrasound. Only later, after the 10th week or beyond, is a heartbeat audible with a Doppler fetal monitor."

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/
https://www.webmd.com/baby/fetal-doppler#1
Derp.

Now that again you're proven wrong, having it backwards as you so often do, with citation and medical fact contradicting you, can you admit it? Doubt it, small men never can admit they're wrong. I admitted my mistake just one post ago.

If you expect you won't remember the person you've spent a decade arguing with in just four years, you must already be showing signs of Alzheimer's. I'm so sorry.

Edit: claim to be an expert!? When did I claim to be an expert? I'm pretty certain that's another delusion, but I'm certainly open to proof, which should be easy to come by if you aren't making things again. By tomorrow please. The only thing I'm an expert about is being a seriously cheap bastard.
This is pretty basic stuff, not advanced or really in contention medically, only as a political ploy...no expertise needed to know there's no heart at 6 weeks, or to read that you see the twitch 4-6+ weeks BEFORE it can be heard by dopler...a basic fact which I remind you that you, self designated expert in the field, got backwards. You were so sure about it too.

Really...You saw a HEART beating at 6 weeks. You're a liar....not a new revelation btw. You've been a proud liar for years.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists also has said in a statement, “What is interpreted as a heartbeat in these bills is actually electrically-induced flickering of a portion of the fetal tissue that will become the heart as the embryo develops. Thus, ACOG does not use the term ‘heartbeat’ to describe these legislative bans on abortion because it is misleading language, out of step with the anatomical and clinical realities of that stage of pregnancy.”

I do not believe you work in as a medical device service tech (which wouldn't include ANY medical training, now would it) but can't spell or read above a third grade level. It's just not believable....not that it would indicate any medical knowledge if true.

Again, seeing a PULSE is not seeing a heartbeat. If they say they saw a heart at 6 weeks, report them, they're delusional. What they call it has nothing to do with reality....many nurses are anti vaxers Q followers, being in the medical field doesn't make one reasonable, logical, or right. Techs aren't doctors....and doctors fudge the truth to avoid conflict. Press them, they'll admit there's no heart, unless like you they prefer a comfortable lie to the hard truth, and believe it's better to tell a lie than a truth that might hurt your position. Probably shouldn't have admitted you think that.

Here's a citation for you to dismiss as fake news....https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/

Btw, I stand corrected, except for changes in the muscle tissue, the basic heart is apparently formed by week 13, not 20. The muscle tissue matures around week 20. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some.

@noseeem

Yep I'm shitty with grammar and spelling But I can fix anything and hold my own in front any Dr. or C suite within my field of expertise.

Personal experience? BSEET Penn State.
33 years as a medical Field service Engineer.


28 years working for Global conglomerates and 5 years in house at UNC Chapel hill NC.
I’ve been with Siemens Medical and General Electric most of my career.
I’ve serviced/ install Cathlabs, Vascular labs, Rad/ RF rooms and Mammo rooms. Plus others.


Last 20 years installing / servicing Medical Ultrasound.
This includes Cardiac, Radiology ultrasound and Woman’s health, OBGYN
I’ve seen more ultrasounds hearts and heartbeats than you can imagine..
Being Hippa compliant, I look at images for quality and for servicing.

All the Techs I talk to say the same . Heartbeat starts about the 6 to 10 week of pregnancy
And yes there are images that capture this along with all the other images and measurements. Doppler is used for this.

Per quick Google search
When does the heartbeat show on ultrasound?
A fetal heartbeat may first be detected by a vaginal ultrasound as early as 5 1/2 to 6 weeks after gestation. That's when a fetal pole, the first visible sign of a developing embryo, can sometimes be seen. But between 6 1/2 to 7 weeks after gestation, a heartbeat can be better assessed.

Your fucking up the wrong tree today. Go back to being the big guy at you high school.

You can even do this at home

Jane you ignorant slut…..MY tangent straw men!?! Lol!!! You mean like how many ultrasound techs I’ve known!? Or what my personal hands on experience is….as if one can only have an opinion on abortion or knowledge of the stages of development if they are ultrasound techs. Aaaaaahahahaha. That must be good meth.
Ok, here….again…. Illiterate Fool: you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical that you are both anti choice and anti mandatory vaccination, are you?

No one said it makes one a doctor besides you. Another paper tiger you set up for yourself. It’s not clever, you aren’t “winning”, you need your Ritalin.

My degree is general science, so I’m actually qualified to answer general science questions like this one. What’s your degree in again?

Bob, if you won’t or can’t read, there’s no point repeating myself again….Your question, replete with grammatical errors, was answered multiple times above. Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for you.

In short, my hands on knowledge is decades of science education well beyond biology, necessarily including basic medical education (like topics like this), a continuing curiosity about how things work that keeps me up to date on most mainstream science including medical breakthroughs and quackery like your arguments, and ties to the Stanford medical community because my mother edited all their publications for decades, forwarding me the most interesting advancements they made, often before they were published.

Now, again I ask…what’s your personal experience on this topic? I’m absolutely certain it’s less, there’s no way an 8th grade dropout works in medicine. You have no experience and no education, no understanding, no knowledge at all, just what bubba dun told you down to da boars nest.

It’s what there is at 6 weeks. The whole thing is less than a newt in the egg, no limbs, 1/2 the size of a pea….the heart isn’t formed at all. Get someone to read for you, watch a film, this isn’t hard info to find if you remove your head from your anus. Look at real medical sites, not anti abortion propaganda sites, they lie, exaggerate, and obfuscate.

What was you question of me? One gets tired of you tangent straw man arguments and can get lost in you incoherent gibberish.



Also reading some books and tagging along with you mom at the hospital does not make you a Doctor or any medical official.



Your medical degree is in what?
Bullshitology?



Yet you haven't responded to this simple question...

So AGAIN

Elitist Tool:
What actual hands on knowledge you you fucking have about this topic?


Or is this you response...
You saw a 6 week old cell clusters twitch ..


Was this a YouTube or your spent jizz left in the fridge as a "scientific" study?

That is a nerve pulse, not a heart beat, and any competent tech knows the difference.
A pulse starts at 6-10 weeks, the heart takes over 20 before it's a heart. Any tech that sees a heartbeat at 6 weeks needs retraining....There's NO FUCKING HEART TO BEAT!

No, doctors do not relay 100% of what the tech writes...have you ever had one?! I've had a few. They also edit, even reject reports that have errors. Claiming they see a heart beating at 6 weeks would be an error, a grievous error.

Mom dragged me to work and I met ultrasound techs (among other medical professionals). That's what you asked, how many I had met. You fucking asked, moron. Why did YOU ask how many I had met if it's irrelevant?! You're a fucking two year old.

Take your meds....you've lost your fucking mind, you're over triggered, and you took too much meth last night. Try again when you can string a rational thought together.

You're talking about techs knowing more than the doctors because they see the scans daily....but they don't see hearts on those scans, they see a microscopic twitch in a few cells.

Hands on knowledge?....more than you, I passed biology (up to advanced molecular organic chemistry, you never even dissected anything I would guess)). Those with hands on knowledge and medical training say there's no heartbeat with no heart, and no heart until over 20 weeks after conception.

If you are implying I I should shut the fuck up because (you assume) I have no first hand experience seeing 6 week old cell clusters twitch, why are you talking about anything? You not only have no experience, but you have no knowledge, no education, no clue.
I've at least seen multiple videos of such "twitches", which is all one sees in person, and there's barely even a tube, there's not one structure of a heart formed, and there's absolutely not a functional heart for months by anyone's theory.

Triggered much?!

If people who see it daily call it a heart beat, then clearly reading a book is better, because you can't get a heart beat without a heart, and a valveless, chamberless tube that doesn't pump isn't a heart. If you look at a straw day in and day out and you start to see it as a heart, actually seeing it is worse. If you go to school and say you see the heart at 6 weeks, you fail.

Jebus. Double negative and heart best? Are you drunk?

I do think +-90% of them know, 10% believe they hear a heart beat because they can now detect a faint nerve signal, but no heart. That 10% are fooling themselves to avoid contradicting their beliefs with medical fact.

What bubble? Did I say they didn't? That doesn't make them doctors. Lab techs do the same...mri techs, even x-Ray techs in some places. Would you let a tech determine your treatment plan, or even diagnose you without a real doctor involved? They aren't even nurses, they know how to run the machine and spot certain results for further investigation/treatment. The doctors review and often edit the reports. If a report of a 6 week pregnancy talked about the heart, that tech would be let go for incompetence. There is no heart.

Dumb fuck, you asked me how many I've talked to. I answered, with an explanation of why I’ve met many. Now you act like I brought it up to say I know some, so I am one?! Are you on meth?

Mom worked at Texas Children's hospital and Methodist hospital in Houston, so yes, those specialists and many many many more, and being curious I asked them lots of questions.

Because my mom worked at a childrens hospital means I knew sonographers and ultrasound techs, there's a difference, which was your question. Jesus, you're like Ritalin kid from smoking aces....to yourself you're fighting this amazing fight with spinning kicks and flips so amazing it gets you hard, but to everyone else you're flailing wildly and are just annoying, not a dangerous opponent to be feared or respected.

Nazis still kill people...they're in your political party shooting cops, crowds, bombing buildings, starting forest fires, stockpiling Molotov cocktails, and trying deadly violent coups.

Abortion only kills people when there's a problem, and this law is guaranteed to cause more problems and kill more people. When abortions are done above board in well regulated clean medical offices, people don't die, nothing is killed beyond potential.

You're right, it's not comparable. Nazis are evil murderers you stand with, abortion is a medical procedure you ignorantly oppose.

Your English failed so badly that your last two sentences are completely unintelligible....wanna try again? There's no fucking way in Hell you're really an adult American with this broken, halting, failing first year English grammar, comrade. You better erase your post, if your handlers see this, you'll be going to Solovki for reeducation.

There can be no heartbeat without a heart, which takes another 6-8 + weeks to form chambers, and 16 or more more weeks to develop valves and functional muscle tissue and actually pump blood. There is no heartbeat at 6, 8, or even 10 weeks by any definition, there's a twitch in the place a heart will one day develop.

This abdication of the state's duty to private citizens has been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court when states allowed churches to veto liquor licenses and bars challenged them and won. The government cannot deputize the populace to enforce a law, nor can it pay them with the state imposed fines even if they call it a judgement...You cannot pre set a judgement amount in a law for a civil case.

There has been no medical breakthroughs that change the standard, if it can't survive outside the womb, it's not viable. Period. End of discussion. That's what not viable means.

"Mutually incompatible"!? Nonsense. Legally there is no baby to be harmed, that's the law this is trying to end run around. Covid harms everyone. It's a paper tiger argument, a total fake red herring, there is NO public health danger if a woman has an abortion, you cannot catch abortion. Covid you can catch, and spread, and it's deadly to actual, real, fully cooked legal people AND embryos.

One wonders if the Texas legal system has nothing to do and had this passed as job security...because it's the only kind of civil case they'll be hearing now.

One also wonders if the state has too much money, because there's apparently they weren't smart enough to include exemptions for the state if they help facilitate any abortions by, let's say, offering bus service, maintaining roadways, or supplying electricity and water to the buildings. Any of these is grounds to sue them for $10000. If you live in Texas, file your case now before there's no money left and they rewrite the law to just target liberals.

They'll have to defend every case filed costing another $10000+ in legal fees (they'll have to pay the plaintiff's costs too). Pair that with the companies fleeing the state to avoid boycotts, Texas is going to be so poor they become America's Hati soon. Yee haw!

No, it's a medical, legal, and religious fact. One you disagree with, but accepted worldwide by governments and populations.

Doesn't the bible say murder is ok? Yes, yes it does. I do think there are many instances when murder is ok, like self defense. That is a widely accepted position too.

You fuck right off out of the U.S.....they legalized abortions first. If fucking right off is your rule, you go first, you were pissed at a political loss first.....then there's no abortion issue, outlaw it in your banana republic. Was it that hard? Fuck off moron.

Yeah, I have fucked right off out of Texas (born and raised there, btw), and I took my moderate estate with me...my parents did too. Texas's loss, they need people with money and property, and educations. They have just ostracized a majority of them. Enjoy bankruptcy, and prepare for most states and countries to stop doing business with Texas. Isolation didn't work for Texas the first time, it's not likely to work now.

Hypocrisy is thy name.

Or at least it is widespread in the ranks of the GOP poodles.

Shortlist of their duality...

- Worry about the Afghani women but shut down US women's access to LEGAL medical services.
- Want to bring education to Afghanistan but oppose school curriculum here in the US. (i.e. their head is their Allah)
- Want Small Government (less interference) but use their power as Big Government to override local LEGAL authority.
- As Ayn Rand-ites, say the individual is important, but any difference of opinion brings banishment.
- Say government doesn't work, they get elected, then don't work.
- Say the Unborn deserve the right to live, but health services for ALL Americans go for a premium. (bring them in but take no responsibility for them - and still believe they hold the moral high ground)

...and it goes on and on and on...they say one thing; do another.

Would guess BK33 and TT both are English Only types as one reads their posts, it would only be fitting.

Lemme guess, you don't care about that when it comes to remdesvir, which is not FDA approved, costs in the neighborhood of 4000 times as much (with profit margins to match) and known side effects are worse including....
Back pain
chest tightness
chills
cough
dark-colored urine
difficulty swallowing
fast heartbeat
fever
flushing
headache
hives, itching
light-colored stools
nausea and vomiting
puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
stomach pain, continuing
trouble breathing
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
Seizures
skin rash

People have severe side effects often enough that you have to wait under observation for an hour after getting it to be sure you don't need medical help.
You can't sue them either, but I'm sure that also doesn't matter to you because Republicans told you to take it instead of an FDA approved vaccine (and just coincidentally they and their major donors all own shares in the manufacturer).

Texas held a similar rally in late July....the organizer, 30 year old Caleb Wallace, showed signs of covid by July 30 but refused testing or treatment, opting for vitamins and ivermectin, a horse dewormer conspiracy theorists have decided is some kind of covid medicine (it's not), and was hospitalized shortly thereafter and has been in icu since Aug 8 near death. His family, pregnant wife and three young kids, is begging online for funds to pay home and medical bills. The hospital has asked his family to sign a do not resuscitate order because they have no treatment options and are running out of oxygen thanks to so many anti vaxers filling the hospitals.
So far they have refused to sign, forcing the hospital to continue to treat him, meaning someone else with a chance to survive can't get a hospital bed and they will die too.

This guy spouted some of the most dangerous, anti science, anti medicine conspiracy theories and lies for a year, and worked hard to stop any actual medical advice from being followed.

No one deserves this outcome more. If only he had to live with it...death seems like he's getting off easy, leaving his family and the rest of us to live with the consequences of his choices.