Strictly speaking, I'm still not following your line of logic.

First, Islam is a religion, not a race, so anything regarding the religion by definition can not validly be called racist. But that may just be semantics.

Second, the discussion is about Islam's sexism and homophobia because the majority of people who follow the religion are on board with sexism and homophobia and encourage it as a group activity, but more importantly, people within the religion who are actually against sexism and homophobia are deemed heretics and worthy of execution.

Homophobia and sexism in Christianity is not worthy of the same type of discussion not because most Christians have paler skin than most Muslims (hearkening back to your "racist" claim), but because like the good Christians they are, most (except fringe groups like Westboro Baptist Church) ignore what the bible and their god told them to think and they tend never to preach about encouraging homophobia and enslaving women.

(You really seem to be unflinchingly practicing exactly what Sam Harris described and treating any even totally valid, objective mention of indisputable issues in the Islamic religion as racism. The facts seem very cut and dry to me, so I can't help feeling like I must be missing something. I mean does this scan... at all?)

I disagree that it's racist to make a factual statement that a large portion of a religion's followers agree with and support the religion's sexism and homophobia.

What's blatantly racist about that?


(disclaimer: i haven't watched this breakdown; i'm just commenting on what i've seen of the original discussion and the video description above.)

I was uncomfortable with this video because I was afraid that it would be used as fuel for homophobia.

I upvoted because really, it is the most anti-homophobic thing out there. It dares to treat gay people as people. Fully, 100% people with a range of personalities.

As a woman, I wasn't offended by the "gayness" of the character, I was offended by the blatant sexual nature of his comments. All this chatter about gayness completely misses the point about what is appropriate behavior in the workplace. And in fact, all this chatter disturbs me deeply -- it is misdirection from the true "crime" here.

Equality is asking everyone to be treated EQUALLY. You don't talk about sex in the workplace like this -- not if you are gay or straight.

Having said that -- my male boss and I are completely inappropriate with each -- but NOT around anyone else. We have bawdy senses of humor and we crack each other up. As he said early on in our working relationship -- it isn't sexual harassment if it is UNWANTED sexual attention.

This guy's co-worker was plain in his language that he was uncomfortable and didn't want to hear sexually explicit stuff, and he wasn't homophobic in his comments. He was ignored. That was not okay.

The point was brought home by making him happily and openly gay and letting the chatty one have a moment of self-truth. Because yeah, he was an asshole.

Explaining comedy and social commentary is so boring.

I'd just like to say that this does go both ways though..

I know a couple of different guys with Asperger's and some other kinds of developmental issues from where i go swimming, and several times in the past i've seen a female react towards those guys like they've been weird or creepy when all they did was say "Hello" like i've seen them do a hundred times before to all types of people. I've even met women there who have spoken to me, been quite happy and talkative, what-have-you, even flirty, and then either said to me "some weird creepy guy <one of my friends> was trying to talk to me in the jacuzzi", or they might give me an "oh my god" look if one of them says hello to her. Body language, facial expression, how they talk all changes when they address them... I feel my skin crawl when i come across someone like that.

I only say this because i think that if we all try to be nicer and kinder to everyone, to be happy and interested in people, we can not only solve the issues raised by the video and in your comment, but also the ones raised in my comment, the ones not even mentioned here, like racism, facism and homophobia.

I think we need feminism, masculism, the LGBT, NAACP and god knows what else to all come together and realise that everyone is tackling the same problem which simply manifests itself in different proportions to different peoples - we're all here for one single life-time, so if we spend it being nicer and friendlier and more courteous and generous we can make life much more enjoyable all round, and no one will have to worry about cat-calling, bitchiness, homophobia or racism.

1. That attitude is precisely why fat shaming is still more acceptable than say racism or homophobia, because many people see obesity as being entirely the fault of the fat person. And yeah models take flak for being too skinny but at the end of the day I'd bet they still don't take as much hate as fat people, and eating disorders are just as damaging as obesity.

2. If you agree that overeating and obesity can be symptoms of other problems then how do you imagine shaming everyone into submission will work? It's like going to the doctors office and discovering that he's prescribing penicillin for everything. Shaming can work in some cases but if you've got someone who's up to their eyeballs in shame and self loathing then after piling on more you might as well top it off with a tombstone for all the good it will do.
Obesity is a complex problem and in general people hate complex problems, they want simple 'one size fits all' (ahem) solutions. If you want to PREVENT obesity then you'll have to start thinking outside the box that is fat shaming.
Oh, and America got started down this road long before this generation, this is the culmination of generations of bad eating.

5 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.

Agreed. I've always said that deep down, racism, homophobia, misogyny are merely manifestations of fear.

I've always wanted to go to a white power rally or something and give them a big hug and say "don't worry, the scary black people aren't out to get you. You don't need to be afraid" and then watch the racist idiots squirm.

Now it's just funny to make homophobic jokes ironically. Like pretending to be Eric Cartman or similar sentiments. But actually witnessing childish homophobia... that's pretty weird to me nowadays, even among the people I know who don't necessarily approve of the lifestyle.

I wonder when/if our generation of offensive, abusive irony will dissipate? I don't mind it, but it seems like a natural progression for popular culture. For example, do you really hear "retard" jokes any longer? Was In Living Color the last mainstream sketch comedy with mentally challenged jokes?

I could be wrong on this, but I don't recall recent stuff along those lines -- except South Park, but they're very, very special.

It was a fine theory, but I don't think the reverse psychology of saying it's gay to insult gays actually works on homophobes. And teasing them about potentially being gay seems to validate their childish attitude.

As the culture moves away from homophobia being accepted, I almost think those insecure macho men will be relieved. It's got be be exhausting to be that paranoid.

I think this idea is tempting but incorrect. Some just hate people that are different. Some people hate Mexicans but don't harbor feelings of repressed Mexicaniality.

I think homophobia has too many reasons to exist to pin it down to just repression.

That was pretty awesome. This is the best way to cure the world of homophobia; make every macho showing representative of repressed homosexuality. Awesome.

@VoodooV

is that what you did?
you just wanted to understand morganths downvote?
for him to clarify his position on why he would downvote a video on discrimination?

ok..let us look at your original comment shall we?

"ahh the coward @Morganth rears their ugly head as well.

come on out of the shadows and defend your downvotes, your homophobia, and your shitty religion, if you can."

i didnt see you ask once WHY he downvoted.
i did,however,see you call him a coward,a homophobe and disrespect his religion.

now maybe each one of your assumptions are spot on but we will never know the truth of that.
why?
because they are assumptions!!!

which is what i was pointing out.i am not defending morganths possible (and maybe probable) homophobia,i am defending his right to downvote without being harassed.

you do not know why he downvoted and neither do i.
maybe he just didnt like the video.
maybe huckebee is his uncle.
maybe he IS a homophobe.
maybe he just doesnt like you.
who knows?

and now we may never know because you did not just ask him to clarify his position..you ridiculed him..in public.

and that brings me to my secondary comment which deals with this issue and i think its an important one.
the subjectiveness of our own perceptions.

now maybe being called names and being poked in the ribs will bring you out to defend your position.....but thats YOU.other people may have a totally different reaction/response.

if your desire to understand is the motivation then maybe calling people names is not the best path in order to get them to share some of their inner-most feelings and/or ideologies.

to get respect you have first to give it.
and assumptions and presumption is disrespectful.

@ChaosEngine

i guess i was not clear.
so let me clarify.

i was not defending an artists right to discriminate on the basis of:sexual orientation,gender,race,class etc etc.

i WAS,however,defending an artists right to refuse a commission on their own personal grounds (whatever those might be) and they could do it without making a big deal about it.no need to be specific WHY you refused the commission.just that you wont be able to do the job to the best of your ability and that maybe joe-artist down the street could serve you better.

so you may find darkhands analogy trite and contrived but the basic heart of his comment is true.if his heart aint in it you are gonna get crap as a result.

being an artist for hire is nothing like owning a bagel shop or selling t-shirts.

if i aint feeling it...
i aint doing it.

if you want to project that i refuse because you are gay,or because their is a vagina involved..well..thats on you.
my reasons are my own.
i may share those reasons with you,i may not but i have that right to refuse the commission.

and the artists who DOES share a reason of homophobia or sexism is just dumb and probably not worth hiring anyways.

as for calling out artists who "whore" themselves.
i wasnt thinking of artists who accept money for the work they do.we all have to eat brother and if i used your example,each and every one of us are whores in one capacity or another.

i was actually thinking of the artists who lend their pen,brush,camera and instrument to create propaganda videos,commercials etc etc.

basically anyone who would sell their integrity for a buck.

ahh the coward @Morganth rears their ugly head as well.

come on out of the shadows and defend your downvotes, your homophobia, and your shitty religion, if you can.

Ahhhh...I see now. You misunderstood your own quote...AND it's wrong...I'm now wondering where you got it from.

Quantum theory is not the theoretical basis of modern physics, it is a mostly theoretical part of sub-atomic physics, and could be called a 'base' for understanding much of that subject, but is not a catch all explanation for even all sub atomic physics, certainly not physics in total.
Modern physics explains the nature and behaviors of matter and energy on the atomic and sub-atomic level, not quantum theory. Quantum theory does NOT explain atomic physics at all, it's only about sub atomic physics. Quantum theory is a sub set of physics, not the other way around as you implied.
Sub atomic physics and 'atomic' physics don't seem to jibe with each other... yet, and the rules of one do not work in the other. It's all counter intuitive and difficult for scientists to understand, the lay person has a snowball's chance in hell of understanding what we even think we know, even less if they get bad info to start with.
That means your understanding is completely wrong. Even sub atomic particles can't really be in two places at once in the way you understand it...it's all insanely difficult math that suggest something that, in lay man's terms, is close to being in two places, but is not actually that, because it's also in neither place (and in some equations, everywhere at once, and nowhere)! It's impossible to state fully in normal English, it's math...and screwy math at that.
Matter simply can't really be in 2 places at once, not even sub atomic parts of it. Certainly not a person. Some experiments may SEEM to show that certain particles/waves may be, but they aren't really...it's wierd. No actual quantum physics scientist has made such an insane claim (that YOU are in 2 places at once) that I know of....it's just plain wrong and displays a complete lack of understanding of the basic principles involved and the difference between sub atomic and non-sub atomic. If someone said that, you can be certain they were either not a physicist, or were trying to over simplify and explain through a poor, un-explained analogy as poor teachers have a tendency to do when explaining difficult subjects to those with no grasp of the basics.
And I don't own any scientists, gawd believing or no. ;-)
...and none of that has a thing to do with evolution beyond being the basic 'rules' for matter.
...and none of that has a thing to do with moral superiority or morality at all.
...and it all has nothing to do with religion based homophobia/bigotry....the topic of this video....so now that another thread has been hijacked, I'm taking this thread to Cuba!