1) Don't be confused, and think that I've decided the casting of ant colonies for art is justified. I'm pointing out that the issue is more complex than many, including yourself, may realize. I find the video disturbing... and unlike our resident @ant have not voted for it.
2) Please look up Godwin's law. Using Nazi analogies generally undermines your argument.. it just makes it hard for people to accept that you have thought things through.
3) But hey, assuming that you have thought things through, let's continue with your analogy:
Perhaps the holocaust analogy does work, but to be sure the fire ants are not the Gypsies, they are the Germans. Fire ants are rapidly spreading across the world, drastically reducing both the abundance and diversity of native species. This includes native ant species, as well as a huge range of arthropod prey, potentially plants (through seed consumption), and even small vertebrates (e.g. lizards and ground nesting birds).
If you are arguing from a pacifistic stance, that violence against another creature is never justified, even if it is in the defense of others more helpless or in self-defense, I thoroughly respect that position. Although any violence turns my stomach; I cannot say that I agree.. for sure, the next time I get an infection, I will take antibiotics; the next time I see purple loosestrife, I will tear it from its roots.

Thanks!
But - my second ebaumsworld link might be the better one - it is a version with all the Hitler references compacted, the one I backuped only has the entire song. Oh dang - even though I'll probably lose this argument due to Godwin's law.

Is that technically a godwin?

I'm really trying not to compare to Nazi Germany, Godwin's law be damned...

I beg to differ. You are literally invoking Godwin. I'm literally invoking pedantry. See the difference?

@bmacs27, you are literally invoking Godwin. Yes, if you are going to accuse someone as being comparable to a dictator widely regarded as one of the greatest monsters history, you should have a decent argument to back you up.

@cosmovitelli again, I am not defending the actions of anyone, and I don't think it just comes down to numbers either. You're talking about people who lead genocidal purges against people purely because of their ethnic background or sexuality, or someone who had their political opponents imprisoned and executed en masse.

Whatever you can say about Bush et al, they simply haven't committed those kinds of attrocites.

I can't downvote, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd go with "monarchs just as bad if not worse as Hitler" as the bit of your comment that would be most likely to draw a "challenge" as you put it. You kinda godwin'd the whole thread right out of the gate which is a bit ... trollish.

I suppose one could maybe make a reasonable attempt at justifying that statement with regards to a few specific past monarchs, but even though I couldn't care less about the British monarchy I think it would be rather unfair to hold the current Queen accountable for what some of her predecessors may have done many, many years before she was born.

I'm an American citizen with ancestors originally from Germany, so by those standards I should personally be held to blame for slavery, Little Bighorn and smallpox blankets, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, AND the holocaust.

Godwin in five! (counting siftbot)

@gwiz665 Charisma can be subjective, so she definitely has her fans. The Maddow thing is off-putting a little bit (close your eyes and listen; she sounds almost exactly like her), but I don't think it's on purpose. She was born with that voice. I think she's more Munn than Maddow, and you can never have too much Olivia Munn, imho.

Do you mean the news where every day countries/states are legalising gay marriage? Or the (admittedly old) bit where the U.S. has a black president? Maybe it's where most civilised countries allow women the means to control their reproductive cycle?

Look, I get that there's some Bad Shit (tm) happening, and yes, you could argue that many of those 14 characteristics are being fulfilled.

But come on, you are literally invoking Godwin!

I'm not saying you shouldn't rail against the Bad Shit, but we're not fighting the Nazis. Things aren't that bad...

I can't wait until the rest of the world gets as sick of the words 'liberal' and 'conservative' as I am. They both need a thorough Godwinization.

Thankfully, there are no contemporary examples where ALL of what you describe has been attempted. That would be because it was done away with centuries ago as a discredited idea.

The closest attempt to what you describe would be in certain european countries around 1939-1946 (I will not invoke godwin! ). Is that really the model you want to follow?

And your technology argument is patently false. If technology was the primary factor in creating a safe community, then there wouldn't be such a huge disparity between crime rates in different parts of the world. Even allowing that poorer areas have less technology doesn't account for the vast difference.

In the spirit of Godwin, I propose a new internet law that describes the inevitability of the MSNBC false equivalency whenever a comment or topic criticizes FOX news.

I love ya, choggie, and VS is way better and more interesting with you here, but this dog just don't hunt.

I think the days of intrepid journalism are largely over for most of the news sources you mentioned, but there still are pockets of resistance to the inanity that passes as news in America. Regardless of whichever political ideolgy you most identify with, you cannot dismiss MSNBC as opposite but equal to FOX. MSNBC is most definitely liberal/progressive, but they wear it on their sleeve, and their spin is backed by facts and reality. FOX spins everything, and completely misinforms it's viewers fans by simply making shit up, not to mention the ubiquitous fear-mongering, the subliminal programming of their crawl, the always-angry, paranoid, petty, spiteful, and shrill talking heads, and the daily memo'd bullet points that are regurgitated verbatim and hammered into the brains of their veiwers all day long from show to show. The dolts on FOX and Friends have got to be the three DUMBEST people ever to thousand-yard stare into a camera. FOX is "news entertainment" at best.

There are infinite shades of gray between black and white, and MSNBC is definitely biased, but you can't say it isn't factual (the vast majority of time). If there was a true "equal but opposite" version of MSNBC, I would watch it. Unfortunately, FOX serves only as a source of amusement for me. "No Spin Zone" makes me giggle every time Papa Bear says it. It's brilliant parody.

That said, we agree that Americans are largely low information because low information is exactly what we get from the news sources readily available. But the "truth" is out there if one cares enough to go look for it.

For starters...
Al Jazeera
CBC News
BBC News
Christian Science Monitor
Reuters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Edit: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Invoking Godwin's Law @ 1:40, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

That sounds too much like, yeah it's an attack ad but I don't like the guy and think his character should be attacked...

The entirety of the evidence in this clip is a single persons word that Mitt was very rude and disrespectful to them. Case closed I guess. Unless it was Obama, and suddenly the sift would mobilize against the idiocy.

>> ^PostalBlowfish:

yes, it's an "attack" ad in the sense that it doesn't cover anything except the character of the targeted candidate. however, i think the message is relevant. the candidates have differences in platform but over the last decade or so, i find i value their character more than their positions. we have a hard time getting business done in washington because we have too many people of poor character who would rather play political games than pass serious legislation.
i don't want a president or congressman who is completely disinterested in the views of others, who is hostile to discussion, or who absolutely refuses to revise his own opinions. in fact, i want to vote these assholes out regardless of their positions on issues. i want people who are willing to compromise, who understand that not everyone agrees and who will seek common ground, who are more interested in progress than preening. an ad like this tells me something about the targeted candidate, and i can appreciate that it is not just the standard vitriolic screed or godwin invocation.
of course, it didn't tell me anything i didn't already know. i would not work for mittens if he owned a business, and i would not even want to put him in charge of a bingo game.