>> ^jimnms:

>> ^Lumm:
[citation] http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=13495

From your source:

Many states have enacted "cyberstalking" or "cyberharassment" laws or have laws that explicitly include electronic forms of communication within more traditional stalking or harassment laws.

Just like it says, those laws just add electronic forms of communications into existing stalking and harassment laws. That still doesn't make it illegal to be a dick. If it was, who gets to decide what's considered dickish? Like they already said in the video, how is what he did any different than the WBC protesting at dead soldier's funerals. Should it be illegal because it's done online, but perfectly OK to do it in person? As sickening as what he did and what the WBC do, if we start telling them they can't do it, then that's just the start of the snowball rolling down the mountain.


I'd agree, except by everything I've read/saw he contacts the families and directs them to his stuff. They don't indicate how many times he contacts them or how he contacts them. But if there were no contact, it's likely his whole message would never be seen by the families and they wouldn't even know about it to react to it. The contact part is the important part of this, not him putting abhorrent things on the internet.

It's the difference between some guy telling everyone he meets that he thinks you're an asshole and him calling you everyday to tell you that he thinks you're an asshole. You tell him once to stop calling/emailing/etc and he's supposed to stop.

The difference with WBC is that if they do it in a public location, it's within their rights...if they take to doing it in your front yard or something you have direct control over then it moves into a different arena of law. You have the right to tell people to get off your property and to not call/email/write you anymore, and people will be punished if they continue to do those things. Like this guy.

>> ^budzos:

I have to reply to this. According to YOUR logic, we should all just eat McDonald's or NASA food-paste all the time, rather than steaks or natural foods. And we would all be gourmands. It's all food and one should never be on a high horse, right?
Some people might like to eat McDonald's from time to time, or all the time in some cases. The honest ones will admit that it's shit and is not in fact a steak nor does it have any of the potential of something not so rigidly bound by shitty material, shitty standards and an isolated context, etc. And the people who NEVER eat McDonald's are quite right when they say McDonald's is SHIT FOOD even though they're not trying to insult or feel superior to the people who eat it.
So, relax. Wrestling is idiotic. That doesn't mean I think you or any wrestling fan is idiotic. That's just your ego (and possibly your stupidity).
>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^budzos:
"For those who say that wrestling is fake."
But, wrestling IS fake. Why does every wrestling fan argue a straw man against this point? We're not saying "wrestling is a figment of your imagination" you [name-calling is bad]. We're saying there's about as much point to watching wrestling as there is to watching little boys playfight in the front yard. Except I'm pretty sure watching my two nephews tussle is less brain damaging.
Listen, wrestling fans: We REALIZE they're actually jumping around and stuff. We're not accusing all wrestlers of being robots, or holograms. We mean the FIGHT IS FAKE. We realize it might hurt to do some of those moves. Those FAKE moves.

Then using this logic why match movies? We KNOW they are fake so there's no point right? Guess what? The story is fake, just like wrestling. The acting is, well fake just like in wrestling. And the fights in a movie? You guessed it, FAKE! JUST LIKE IS WRESTLING! Get off your high horse pal. It's entertainment! If you don't like it, then don't watch it. But don't look down your nose at those of us who do enjoy watching it because you're no better or smarter than we are.



Wrong. That's not anywhere near "according to my logic" sorry to say. Where did I say we should all watch wrestling all the time? I said some people like to enjoy it and we that do don't need pretentious ass holes looking down at their noses at us because of the form of entertainment we chose to enjoy. One man's trash and all that.

I never said it wasn't crap either. In fact I agreed that it was fake and pointed out that it's no more fake than the movies and TV shows every one enjoys. I don't need to relax. I'm sick and tired of all the jerks on this site who think they are the quintessential "experts" on what type of music, movies, TV shows, etc is/are good or worthy of their godlike attention and everything else is crap. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean WE ALL have to not like it. Say you liked dub step for instance. I don't really consider that music. But you don't see me going around pointing it out every time someone posts a dub step music video on the sift, do ya?

I also find it hilarious how everyone rails on how fake wrestling is, but fake fights in movies and TV are perfectly OK to watch. Makes no fucking sense. All wresting is is bad skits with bad acting and some fake movie/stunt fighting. Some of us like it. We as fans KNOW it's fake. They (the wrestlers) KNOW it's fake, and they (the wrestlers) KNOW that we KNOW it's fake. But part of the fun is seeing how good at FAKING it they are. Nice move insulting my intelligence. Class act you are.

I have to reply to this. According to YOUR logic, we should all just eat McDonald's or NASA food-paste all the time, rather than steaks or natural foods. And we would all be gourmands. It's all food and one should never be on a high horse, right?

Some people might like to eat McDonald's from time to time, or all the time in some cases. The honest ones will admit that it's shit and is not in fact a steak nor does it have any of the potential of something not so rigidly bound by shitty material, shitty standards and an isolated context, etc. And the people who NEVER eat McDonald's are quite right when they say McDonald's is SHIT FOOD even though they're not trying to insult or feel superior to the people who eat it.

So, relax. Wrestling is idiotic. That doesn't mean I think you or any wrestling fan is idiotic. That's just your ego (and possibly your stupidity).

>> ^Duckman33:

>> ^budzos:
"For those who say that wrestling is fake."
But, wrestling IS fake. Why does every wrestling fan argue a straw man against this point? We're not saying "wrestling is a figment of your imagination" you [name-calling is bad]. We're saying there's about as much point to watching wrestling as there is to watching little boys playfight in the front yard. Except I'm pretty sure watching my two nephews tussle is less brain damaging.
Listen, wrestling fans: We REALIZE they're actually jumping around and stuff. We're not accusing all wrestlers of being robots, or holograms. We mean the FIGHT IS FAKE. We realize it might hurt to do some of those moves. Those FAKE moves.

Then using this logic why match movies? We KNOW they are fake so there's no point right? Guess what? The story is fake, just like wrestling. The acting is, well fake just like in wrestling. And the fights in a movie? You guessed it, FAKE! JUST LIKE IS WRESTLING! Get off your high horse pal. It's entertainment! If you don't like it, then don't watch it. But don't look down your nose at those of us who do enjoy watching it because you're no better or smarter than we are.

>> ^budzos:

"For those who say that wrestling is fake."
But, wrestling IS fake. Why does every wrestling fan argue a straw man against this point? We're not saying "wrestling is a figment of your imagination" you [name-calling is bad]. We're saying there's about as much point to watching wrestling as there is to watching little boys playfight in the front yard. Except I'm pretty sure watching my two nephews tussle is less brain damaging.
Listen, wrestling fans: We REALIZE they're actually jumping around and stuff. We're not accusing all wrestlers of being robots, or holograms. We mean the FIGHT IS FAKE. We realize it might hurt to do some of those moves. Those FAKE moves.


No you see what most wrestling fans are arguing is the use of the term "Fake". It is incorrect, a more correct term would be "Scripted" because that's exactly what it is. Wrestlers have the injury reports to prove it, it's simply like ballet or a play with fighting in it. I mean you don't look at Shakespeare or Cirque du Soleil and say "FAKE!!!" because it's not...they're actually hitting themselves. Only occasionally do they miss...and then it's a gif and everyone says "FAKE!" when that's not correct...it would be like saying when a boxer misses he's faking it.

>> ^budzos:

"For those who say that wrestling is fake."
But, wrestling IS fake. Why does every wrestling fan argue a straw man against this point? We're not saying "wrestling is a figment of your imagination" you [name-calling is bad]. We're saying there's about as much point to watching wrestling as there is to watching little boys playfight in the front yard. Except I'm pretty sure watching my two nephews tussle is less brain damaging.
Listen, wrestling fans: We REALIZE they're actually jumping around and stuff. We're not accusing all wrestlers of being robots, or holograms. We mean the FIGHT IS FAKE. We realize it might hurt to do some of those moves. Those FAKE moves.


Then using this logic why match movies? We KNOW they are fake so there's no point right? Guess what? The story is fake, just like wrestling. The acting is, well fake just like in wrestling. And the fights in a movie? You guessed it, FAKE! JUST LIKE IS WRESTLING! Get off your high horse pal. It's entertainment! If you don't like it, then don't watch it. But don't look down your nose at those of us who do enjoy watching it because you're no better or smarter than we are.

"For those who say that wrestling is fake."

But, wrestling IS fake. Why does every wrestling fan argue a straw man against this point? We're not saying "wrestling is a figment of your imagination" you [name-calling is bad]. We're saying there's about as much point to watching wrestling as there is to watching little boys playfight in the front yard. Except I'm pretty sure watching my two nephews tussle is less brain damaging.

Listen, wrestling fans: We REALIZE they're actually jumping around and stuff. We're not accusing all wrestlers of being robots, or holograms. We mean the FIGHT IS FAKE. We realize it might hurt to do some of those moves. Those FAKE moves.

@MarineGunrock @ChaosEngine

My dad had a concealed carry permit, kept his gun in his car but not usually on his person.

When he was in his late 70's, he was mugged in his front yard in rural Oklahoma. Was hit in the face with a length of metal pipe -- pretended to be knocked out when he wasn't.

Talking about it to me, he brought up the fact that he didn't have his gun on him. I asked him, quite seriously, if he would have used it had it been on him.

He said no.

He knew that getting smacked in the face, as horrible as it was, was not a death penalty offense.

Real life situation, not hypothetical.

edit: embed ain't working

http://videosift.com/video/Vegetable-Garden-in-Front-Yard-Brings-Wrath-of-City

Shh!!! Don't feed him!>> ^spaceman:

Is nobody going to comment on how stoopid quantummushrooms comment was?

Also, if she could get her neighbors to all plant gardens in their front yards, even temporarily, the prosecution's argument would implode in his face. Community action, boyo.

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

>> ^EMPIRE:
How goes it again? American, land of the what? free?
right...

It is @NetRunner 's utilitarian calculus in full action. You only get rights to something if you can prove it is good.


Who said this was the greatest good for the greatest number? Not me, nor the people in her neighborhood. Not even the city council guy. Even gross consequentialist reasoning shows that a lot of people enjoy her garden, and seem disturbed at by the very idea that the city could force her to get rid of it. That's weighed against one cranky old lady saying "I don't like it, it's unnatural".

On the other hand, people who insist that everything be categorical wind up making nonsensical Calvinball arguments. What right is being violated?

It's not a violation of property rights, if that's what you think. Buying real estate gets you a fee simple title. Buying a house does not entitle you to sovereign territory that is beyond the jurisdiction of the US legal system.

Incidentally, city council guy was making a categorical argument -- the law says suitable, suitable means normal, normal means exactly like everyone else, and she's the only person with a front-yard vegetable garden, therefore it must be illegal. If he were a utilitarian, he'd say "I don't see the harm" and let her be.

Mmmmmmm, marimatoes.

>> ^MrFisk:

Grow your mariju - er, tomatoes indoors.

That's just... I mean... wow.
>> ^residue:

I was fined for parking in my yard a few years ago when people across the street have been doing it for years. The reason I was fined? Obstructing the sidewalk. There's no sidewalk in my yard, it stops about a block before my house. When I brought this to the attention of the local courthouse they told me that I was fined because if there would have been a sidewalk there, I would have been blocking it

If the citizens hate the law against front yard gardens (yardens?) so much they should change it. Until then, if the law is proven to define no front yardens, then that's the law.

It's all a matter of degree, isn't it liberals? You're upset about THIS when your eco-fascism is now fully one-third of fedguv's laws...LOOK at the arbitrary power you've given your masters!

All of a sudden you're FOR private property rights? Out-RAGEOUS!



Here's some of the voices of reason of your heroes:

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States. Economic growth in rich countries like ours is the disease, not the cure."

--Paul Elrich, Stanford University biologist and Advisor to Albert Gore

"I think if we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of saving the world ecologically. I think it is possible to have an ecological society under socialism. I don't think it's possible under capitalism."

--Judi Barri of Earth First!

"Capitalism is a cancer in the biosphere."

--Dave Foreman, Founder, Earth First!

"The northern spotted owl is the wildlife species of choice to act as a surrogate for old-growth forest protection," explained Andy Stahl, staff forester for the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund, at a 1988 law clinic for other environmentalists. "Thank goodness the spotted owl evolved in the Pacific Northwest," he joked, "for if it hadn't, we'd have to genetically engineer it."

--Andy Stahl at a 1988 law clinic for environmentalists, staff forester, Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund

"Now, in a widening sphere of decisions, the costs of error are so exorbitant that we need to act on theory alone, which is to say on prediction alone. It follows that the reputation of scientific prediction needs to be enhanced. But that can happen, paradoxically, only if scientists disavow the certainty and precision that they normally insist on. Above all, we need to learn to act decisively to forestall predicted perils, even while knowing that they may never materialize. We must take action, in a manner of speaking, to preserve our ignorance. There are perils that we can be certain of avoiding only at the cost of never knowing with certainty that they were real."

--Jonathan Shell, author of Our Fragile Earth

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."

--Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment for the Conservation Foundation

"[W]e have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."

--Stephen Schneider, Stanford University Professor and author Quoted by Dixey Lee Ray in Trashing the Planet (1990)


"More science and more technology are not going to get us out of the present ecological crises until we find a new religion, or rethink our old one."

--Lynn White, Jr. "The Historical Roots of Our Ecological Crisis," Science, (Mar. 10 1967), p 1206

"Childbearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license.... All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

--David Brower, Friends of the Earth

"The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state."

--Keith Boulding, originator of the "Spaceship Earth" concept

"If radical environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS. It [AIDS] has the potential to end industrialism, which is the main force behind the environmental crises."

--Earth First! newsletter