>> ^imstellar28:
Theres really no way religion can survive the internet, so I wouldn't worry about it. It'll be gone naturally in the next few generations as more and more people become connected.


Oh yes, obviously the Internet is fostering an explosion of rational thought everywhere.

Have you read comments on Youtube recently? Or any site with a wide-demographic audience? I'm pretty sure the Internet is making it easier for new and old religion, faith healing, miracle cures etc. to spread, not harder. The Internet just makes it easier to spread information, and that includes lies and irrational ideas.

Frankly, looking at the kind of rapid-fire discussion going on, I worry that the more reasonable, humane type of religion is dying out and a more crass type of religion is rising.

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I remember reading a study that showed some positive results of healing, not faith healing, but some kind of healing where the patiente had psysical contact with the healer. I'm not sure what kind of healing this would be because I've only heard on changing energy fields in the air and placing stones and crystals on the patient.
But anyway, the positive result simple came from having physical contact with another person and that this released chemicals and whatnot that had a positive effect on your health.
So the positive effect had nothing to do with what the healer thought helped (energy and all that crap) but it could show some positive results from something.

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In reply to this comment by demon_ix:
>> ^gwiz665:
"God gave is the gift of human reason" and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

Now get him to say Black = White and get run over at the next zebra crossing!

>> ^ledpup:
>> ^Nithern:
Hope is an utterly useless concept. .


tell that to POW vets. Ask them how useless it is

>> ^gwiz665:
"God gave is the gift of human reason" and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

Now get him to say Black = White and get run over at the next zebra crossing!

Are you mental? Science is not cold, it doesn't care. There is nothing that has ever been miraculously healed, that could not have happened anyway. No one has miraculously, through prayer, grown back a severed limb.

"I had a cold, then I prayed, then I got better... it's a miracle!"

NO IT'S NOT!!

>> ^Nithern:
Seems to be quite a few religious haters in the crowd here. Alot of 'religious doesnt do anything, but science does'. In this case, the father and mother, should have gone to the doctor's office (since believe it or not, there are alot of medical doctors, who are Christian), to help treat their child. They decided to go the unwise and unrational method. So, alot of you, whom claim are rational, thinkers of science, fall in to the same trap. What would you have said, if the daughter was healed, and the only thing that was administered, was deep prayer? You would fall in to the same trap, and try to justify your own petty arguements.
The main problem with science, is, that its extremely cold. Tell someone who will suffer for years and die, using only science that all of that suffering is worth enduring? The concept of 'Hope', is not a scientific thought. Hope, is pure faith, and it is what drives so many right now, to endure illnesses and conditions, that some medical cure or process is discovered to help them lead better lives.
THAT, is wisdom. Another concept we learned from faith.

>> ^ponceleon:
So does the guy now not believe in God? I mean the equation was pretty simple and it failed...
ooh, speaking of fail
Also, I always get pissed off when people say that "god gave us the gift of doctors." Fuck you. Doctors went to medical school for 4 years and studies SCIENCE. They didn't get "blessed" with some "magic" power allowing them to wave their hands around and cure people... After all, these doctors also perform abortions and stem cell research, how do you know which ones are god-approved?
As for the Israel thing... oh just stfu... I don't even know where to begin with that crap. The religious significance of a shitty piece of desert has the world in turmoil and none of them can see that they are all delusional followers of fairy tales? All I got to do is watch idiots carrying crosses down a street, dopes bobbing their heads in front of a wall, or lemmings walking in circles around a rock to know that none of these religions (or any for that matter) know a damned thing about the nature of the universe.



Your doctors have only 4 YEARS of college!!?
That's fucked up.

OH and it's called MEDICAL SCIENCE. It's not a branch of physics and you don't have to know squat about math. It's also the only "science" where having a smile on your face helps the the experiment go more smoothly. And where the "object" that's experimented on has it's own voice.

>> ^Nithern:

Nithern, is your argument that "the faithful ill should go to doctors because some doctors are Christian?" Do you really want to run with that one?

And science is cold? Huh?!

Hope is an utterly useless concept. I could be falling from a 100 metre building and hopeful of a speedy recovery or some of god's attention for a moment. Or I could be falling from a 100 metre building and be in despair of my soon to be mangled dead body. Either emotion is pretty much useless. I'm almost certainly going to die. Yet, people have survived such falls. Sure, you can stick with your hope and maybe god will deliver you from almost certain death, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind some jet-powered rocket pants to Junior Birdman the hell out of here!

There are situations where believing you are going to die actually has a very bad impact on your condition. Scientists (and others) are well aware of this. A really interesting off-shoot of this is the nocebo response. You might find it interesting.

There are people that have miraculous recoveries and no one disputes that, but I'm using the term miracle loosely because you cant really define what a miracle is. If the only thing administered was prayer I would argue perhaps the initial diagnosis was incorrect or there was data that was not accounted for (since this isnt exactly a controlled experiment where we know EVERYTHING that happened to the girl)

That being said I dont think the arguments here are petty. It was stupid for the parents of this girl to have not taken her to a doctor and their religion led them to make that choice. People make similar, ill informed, choices regularly because of their faith.

Also I dont agree with your idea that wisdom is learned from faith. Wisdom is defined as an understanding of all available choices and an ability to pick the best one in a situation. Faith seems to hinder your wisdom; or at least it did to these poor people who let their daughter die needlessly.

In reply to this comment by Nithern:
Seems to be quite a few religious haters in the crowd here. Alot of 'religious doesnt do anything, but science does'. In this case, the father and mother, should have gone to the doctor's office (since believe it or not, there are alot of medical doctors, who are Christian), to help treat their child. They decided to go the unwise and unrational method. So, alot of you, whom claim are rational, thinkers of science, fall in to the same trap. What would you have said, if the daughter was healed, and the only thing that was administered, was deep prayer? You would fall in to the same trap, and try to justify your own petty arguements.

The main problem with science, is, that its extremely cold. Tell someone who will suffer for years and die, using only science that all of that suffering is worth enduring? The concept of 'Hope', is not a scientific thought. Hope, is pure faith, and it is what drives so many right now, to endure illnesses and conditions, that some medical cure or process is discovered to help them lead better lives.

THAT, is wisdom. Another concept we learned from faith.

>> ^ponceleon:
Fringe faiths?
What faiths AREN'T based in belief of something "magical?" Sure your average BS american christian will probably go to the hospital if they get sick, but many will still believe that jesus was this magical guy who raised the dead, cured the sick, walked on water, yada yada.
If anything you have to hand it to people who go all-out-wacko over religion. At least they have the balls to have "real faith." If you believe in magical bs, put your money where you mouth is and let faith solve your problems.


You mistake balls with crazy, and magic with unfathomable power. I also don't understand what you mean by "real faith" when their basic faith model is that of having to prove God is real over and over again to themselves by only allowing room for direct intervention. Believing in causes that happen outside the universe isn't magic.

And lastly, what makes you think that not going to a doctor has anything more or less to do with faith in Gods healing? Most miracles in the bible took place through a person. No more or less reason to suggest that someone believing that God can use a doctor to heal someone is any less a derivative of faith than anything else. In fact, it is the thinking that you are suggesting that leads people astray from the real idea that God is working in everything and everyone and everywhere.

Back on topic though, it is pretty obvious from what happened that their faith is weaker and needs God to show himself in a very non-transparent way for them to have any connection with Him. It is this shallow needy faith that causes a lot of problems for people, not only in the church, but people on the outside looking in. These folks ended up killing a baby because of this insecurity which is a real tragedy.

>> ^spoco2:
I'm not going to watch this (I know the case in point), and I'm not going to comment on this video other than this, because this sort of thing REALLY, REALLY gets me going.
A child puts their faith in you, not religious faith, but faith that you will do the right thing by them, that you will protect them, that you have their best interests at heart.
They trust you.
And when you betray a child's trust to the point that you kill them because of a stupid belief in something that you have NEVER been shown to exist over medical science that has shown time and time again it can heal the affliction your child has. You should be medically made barren. NEVER allowed to have children again and held up as a shining example of the sort of absolute horror that blind faith can lead to.
Fuck them... no, actually don't, that might lead to more children.


Worst of all, a child that young can't do anything but trust in their parents, they don't even have the ability to speak for themselves . Everyone is a looser in this poor, f'ed up situation.

Spittlebug froth = faith healing water...now that's *comedy