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We're not talking about the political parties, we're talking about hypocritical evangelicals

I am an independent, politically. I can understand when people who don't believe in Christ look at these statements from evangelical leaders; it's an outrage and it breaks my heart. Winning the culture war isn't going to happen by legislating morality; it is going to happen through showing the authentic love of Christ and doing good works that glorify God in a lost and dying world.

there is a difference between the black and white evangelicals where moral conviction and acts does matter; this can be seen with how Blacks voted in Alabama recently

"Evangelical Christian clubs operate programs inside public schools across the US." What the fuck?

"...if I didn't have my friends at church, knowing they are going through the same thing as I am. I'd feel so alone. I'd feel like I'd give up." And so the trap is set, peer pressure to stay in the church and not open their minds and hearts to other options.

This is so far beyond creepy... I mean I get the pledge to stay a virgin until you are married. If that's your wish, then go with it, but this is carrying that well beyond what is reasonable. I'm almost cool with the idea of trying to get the father's approval, though that shouldn't be an absolute, as the girl isn't the father's property. She still should have the right to choose on her own... This is one of the things I don't get about these sort of movements, removal of choice, the key thing that God set up for us, when you force that choice, then you remove it from the person and say God is too weak to convict the person of the wrong choice. It is partly why I moved from Republican to Libertarian because I couldn't deal with the idea of telling people how to live their life, as it made God seem weak, as if He couldn't convict them.

I'd like to hope that even at the height of my evangelical life that I would have found this too creepy. Even when I was in Promise Keepers and traveling great distances to Promise Keepers meetings, and to see Benny Hinn and other evangelical preachers. I fear sometimes I would probably find it creepy but would be willing to dismiss it too easily...

Where's the purity balls for moms and sons? Of course, the woman has no authority in these types of homes.

Drain the swamp... I don't see any swam draining. He drained the very same Wall Street people he complained Hillary would bring in, into the White House, and other low lifes... like Bannon.

And if we get just another 10 months of turmoil depends on how we pray... of course a minor chunk of Christianity don't vote Republican, and actually vote the way Jesus would, which clearly wouldn't be for Trump or his kind... but I digress. So they are praying against Trump, but of course we know she means we need to pray for the nation, and for Trump's divine leadership from God... odd how the right is willing to say that God appoints leaders like Trump, but wouldn't say the same about Obama, who clearly was far more Christ like than Trump... Anyhow, the point I was going to get to, is odd how one has to pray to get God to act, though His will is perfect, so you can't change His mind, or His will... and why would He just sit and go... "4,998,888 more prayers to go, then I'll answer.. ohh... 4,999,884 to go! Way to go My people." That isn't compassion or anything... Either His will is perfect and His will will be done, or He's malleable, which isn't divine... or He's a fake, or at least no more real than any of the other 5,000 gods out there, and can't actually answer prayer any more than those other gods... "It takes an action of faith on our part, by praying"... bull shit, either He's going to do it or not.... because most of those kids with brain and bone cancer, Christian, with Christian families who pray all the time, as are most of the people who are dying of horrible things in this nation, but somehow His answering prayer ratio seems to be about the same as random, and the same as to any other god...

All these kind of people, and Fox News types who also brag about their faith, and how Christianity is under attack bull shit line... is why I hate Christianity and what it's become... to which Christians take great offence, "why hate me?" but I hate Christianity, not you as a person... of course they don't get that, because they identify so strongly with their faith that they take that personally as an attack against them... of course then they don't see how their anti-LGBT rantings, and the "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" is basically the same... they can't empathize, and see how their hatred of the sin of homosexuality as they see it, is the same as my hatred of modern Christianity.

I love how the far right is far more upset at the leaks than the crime... when the DNC was having leaks, they had near zero concern about the leaks, it was the potential crimes being exposed that they were concerned with. Now that it is against Trump, suddenly the potential crime matters nothing, all that matters is leaks. Were this Clinton or Sanders, they'd be screaming from the mountain top, "the crime matters far more than the leaks! Lock her/him up!" Now they are going after leakers, who haven't exposed anything that endangers national security, just is embarrassing for our asshole in chief.

Of course the people who watch this, 700 Club, TBN, Fox, listen to right wing radio, and the like... they are still fired up, they still believe. Some of the people who voted for him who may not be in that crowd, might start having doubts, but the vast majority of his base still is in love with him, and still thinks he's God's greatest gift to this nation. They've been lied to and deceived by their churches for so long... that even if they actually do take a moment to read the Bible for themselves, they can't interpret it any other way than the way these ilk violate it's teachings, and the teachings of the Jesus they claim to follow.

As I've said before, if I were still a Christian, I'd seriously consider the modern right wing evangelical movement to be part of the anti-Christ system, as they turn more people against God than for Him, and are teaching a system opposite of what Jesus taught... Satan/the anti-Christ doesn't need to deceive the world, we are already damned to Hell, what he'd need to deceive, would be those who think they are faithful to the teachings of Jesus. Use them, not as a beacon of life and hope, but the pure bigotry and hate that modern Christianity is. To make it it unappealing... they might still get into Heaven with those who actually believe the way Jesus taught (because believing Jesus is the Christ, the son of God and all that is the only requirement in), but the Judgement Seat of Christ would find them learning how they cost millions of souls, then He'd point to the Christians on the left, and would say, they did far better, they followed my lessons... He'll look at Jim there and say, "look at the thousands of souls that you personally turned against My message, because you didn't teach the Love I commanded, you didn't teach the golden rule as I taught it, you taught a corrupted message, and now they'll burn for all eternity in Hell, because of you. I tried to reach them, but they heard your message of bigotry and hate, of love of money over helping the needy and the poor, of greed over the command to heal the sick, and turned from me.... now because you believed in Me, I have to let you in, but you'll live seeing those who turned from me as they are tormented in the back of your mind... you'll have a small home here, not the grand home that those who have taught my message properly have... to those who much was given, much was expected, and you failed. That man there, murdered 33 people, and converted before his execution, and his home will be grander than yours. Those who had much, will have little... so enter to your reward... of praising me for all I've done, 24/7 for all eternity, but as you praise, remember those who aren't here, because you poisoned the world against me." "Surely Lord there must be some who were saved, I saw them come forward." "They were already saved, or would soon be, for each one of them that actually turned to me because of you, hundreds turned away... that's not a good exchange Jim..."

While the editing does set things off, sadly, Bakker, Pat "what's this mac and cheese, is that a black person thing" Robertson, Jack Graham, and all their ilk are far from Poe's Law, and well into they truly believe this stuff. And so do the people who watch it, and remember they are FAR more reliable voters than any other group, and their numbers are legion. There's a reason why near 46% of American's believe the Earth to be 6,000 years old in accordance with the Bible, and among the white evangelicals that this ilk appeal to, it's 60%.

Now Mark Biltz (the guy who said he knew what day Adam opened his eyes in the Garden of Eden) is generally rejected even in most evangelical circles, so not sure why Bakker is giving him space to spread his message... though if it scares enough people into buying buckets....

What's scary is that Bakker still has a huge audience that trusts his teachings, even though we were just hours or days from a collapse whereby you wouldn't be able to buy food for six to twelve months way back in 2015... The things Bakker and Robertson have said to defend Trump and blast Obama over the years...

No Mr Trump (RE: 0:52)... if you were a Liberal Democrat, nobody on the left would be calling you a smart man, or even a good man. You are the very picture of a fucking idiot. You could have been left of Bernie, and your narcissism would have made me sick. You are a near illiterate moron, and this wouldn't be a problem if you just kept to reality TV that appeals to other idiots, or the immorality of ripping off your contractors, but you ran, and run, to be the President of the United States, made us the laughing stock of the world. The media gives you a hard time, not because you are conservative, or because they lie, or because of some liberal agenda, they give you a hard time because of your banal idiocy, the fact YOU lie, that you constantly contradict yourself, that your people have to contradict you. that you can't seem to understand even basic concepts my 13 year old could grasp with far greater ease than you. Don't worry though, the minority part of the population who voted for you, will have faith in you no matter what, you could come out and say you did conspire with the Putin to win the election, and none of them would care, because you aren't Clinton, and they'd just see it as saving America in the end, such is the power of the brainwash on the far right... hell, I'd doubt the GOP itself would have enough balls to do anything about it other than say it was bad for you to do. Anyhow, you fucking moron, you massive failure of a human, you waste of star-stuff, nobody on the left would say you were smart, or appreciate you at all, we'd all see you for the looser you are, it isn't your politics that causes it, it's because of facts. Of course I realize that there are some big words here, and you can't read it, but I'm sure one of your actually smart, but greedy people, can help parse it for you, and stroke your ego about how it was an unfair attack and yada yada yada... and you and your followers would just say I'm brainwashed by the evil liberal media like NPR, but if you'd learn to vet things... which I know is well beyond your imbecile mind, one learns to see where the truth lies... Hell, you pompous buffoon, even when I was a far right, evangelical Christian, and pushing for strong Republican ties, I'd still have thought you to be the biggest idiots to ever hold the office.

God has perfect will, perfect knowledge of all that was and all that is to be, and a perfect plan... but, if you pray, you might change it. I mean, if the end result of your prayer was his original plan, then prayer does nothing, so obviously if prayer works, then it must change his perfect plan... which sort of begs the question of how perfect was it in the first place? Of course the evangelical would say, was to end up where prayer took it, but it took prayer to get it there, otherwise God would have let his plan fall to the side. Anyhow, obliviously what we can gather from Bakker and Pat Robbertson and their ilk, is while Trump is God's perfect candidate and God's plan for our Nation, he won't help Trump without lots of prayer. And don't forget to pray to smite Trump's enemies...

The whole conservative Christian Republican movement is directly opposed to the teachings of the Bible, though they claim to be the most Christian of all those here... If I were still a Christian (I used to be a far right, evangelical, speaking in tongues, going to 3 services a week, Republican is God's chosen party, Christian once upon a time, even my earliest posts, under a different name as I couldn't recover the password for that account, praised Fox news, creationism, though not young Earth creationism, and more) I'd be worried that the modern Republican party may indeed be the Anti-Christ system, since deceiving Christians would be priority one for Satan. No need to deceive the world, as they are already going to Hell, who you need to deceive are those already going to Heaven to practice a faith that claims to be Christ like, but isn't, while turning people off real Christianity, which is exactly what Right Wing Christianity does. Everything they stand for goes against he beatitudes, the commandment of love, the commandment to treat others as you'd have them treat you, how the rich (and not just that one specific rich guy) are very unlikely to get into heaven, to help the poor, to heal the sick , not to judge, and all that without exception... They ignore the fact the actual Sin of Sodom wasn't sexual perversion (though it didn't help to be fair), but being a "land of plenty while doing little to help the needy and poor" (and as a side note, while the Bible does indeed mention the sexual immorality, it also mentions how hostile Sodom was to foreigners)... and ignore Isiah 10 ("Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights")

As to the John Adams thing, they dismiss that as Adams being just political, because he made other statements about faith... of course his pro-faith and other Founding Father statements about pro-faith aren't just for political gain... no... statements against it though however.... Just like Mark Zuckerberg's recent pro-faith announcements have nothing to do with how he seemed to be making political moves so soon after... I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact an atheist or even agnostic can't get elected to high offices (not saying he didn't actually find faith, he very well may have, just the timing is odd).

On the one hand, having a guided experience like that from somebody that knows the "proper" way of doing things is a very good thing.

On the other hand, I hate snobbery when it becomes sort of evangelical to the point of "saving people from ruining their meal". Maybe they like "candy sushi" rolls, dipped into soy sauce mixed with wasabi to the point of being salt bombs. I do. AND I like good nagiri the "proper" way also.

Maybe more simple would be to observe that from the evangelical interpretation, if you were to go out and kill every person that failed to live up to the law, the global population would be zero. From there it is hardly rational to believe that Jesus was teaching anyone was supposed to go around meting out judgement. I don't find it such a harsh leap of logic then to read the old testament laws stating if person X commits crime Y they must be killed as being admonitions against the crime. I think it's not that bizarre to read them as the act of stoning others as not a law itself, but a sentence, and a sentence that Jesus death rendered moot.

Again that doesn't jibe with the text, or his exact words "For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven"
That also contradicts the theory that his death ended the laws....."until heaven and earth pass away" clearly is a different thing from 'until I, Jesus, pass away'.
This is clear that the letter of the laws, not just the spirit of love, are the focus here, and anyone ignoring a single jot will be judged harshly.
In the old testament, those punishments are for failing to live by the specific, set forth rules as written, not failing to live up to some underlying, contradictory, unwritten, hidden message of love behind them.

That's not what the bible says. It's what 3rd parties have told people it says. It also clearly warns about those people....warns against listening to them, and tells you what happens to them....they are called the least, which I interpret to mean considered unworthy of heaven so are sent elsewhere.
It clearly, unambiguously, undeniably tells believers to murder infidels themselves, personally, with rocks. Any other interpretation ignores clearly written specific and detailed instructions in favor of insane mental gymnastics to think " You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God" somehow, inexplicably means 'love and tolerate them with respect and kindness' and not 'go murder them ASAP'.

Evangelicals have never once lived up to your theory of what they believe, they can't even follow the basic golden rule. The respect they demand for their beliefs is never returned to others, in my experience.
Evangelicals in practice usually take the entirety of the Bible as a message telling them they should go out and force others to love their version of God and the righteous, not all people, and without a hint of humility, and that they must accept the grace of their version of God or else are deserving of hatred and damnation.


Edit: As I read it, Jesus said follow every letter of the old laws, but instructed people that he without sin should cast the first stone (that would have been him, wouldn't it?). The old laws said he who casts no stones is committing a horrendous sin and should themselves be stoned to death. Believers somehow don't see the contradiction, while I see nothing but.

Shinyblury might be better at weighing on some of this now .

I agree, the entire old testament seems at odds with Jesus's teachings....unless you interpret murder of infidels as somehow loving them to death.
With how many different christian churchs there are in every single town having a slightly different view it's hard to give a singular answer. I'd hazard the most common explanation though is that the old school laws basically demonstrated one thing to humanity, every last one of you by rights deserves death. Everybody is, by God's standards, inadequate and the penalty is death.
That's why his statements about the laws still being in full effect don't jibe with his teachings of love and acceptance, and no where does he, or God, or any prophet say his death erases God's laws that I find
Continuing what I think is the most common explanation, Jesus message was that the 'spirit' of the old school laws was to encourage humanity to love god and fellow man without exceptions. Strictly following the letter of the laws was to miss the point entire. Also, the punishment for failing to live up to the standard of universal love for God and fellow man was death, fire, brimstone and all the nasty old testament sentences.

So taking those as axioms you have God's law for humanity was and always had been love for him and each other. God's punishment for failing that measure, even in the least, was and always had been death and eternal damnation.

Again, I can't say all Christians are universally agreed on what to do from that, but I would say that the majority again follow Jesus teachings that the punishment for those that fall short was to be left to God and not to humans. As in, no more going around killing each other for breaking the law in letter or in spirit. Evangelicals are probably also universally agreed that ALL of humanity fails to meet the morality bar and thus was doomed to death until Jesus was killed. Jesus having met the bar of perfection required by the law, was thus payment through his death for the rest of humanity. So Evangelicals for the most part then take the entirety of the Bible as a message telling them they should go out and love God and everyone and in the humility that they are but for the grace of God equally deserving of damnation.

I know re-reading that it reads more like a sermon than anything, but it's also the most concisely I could manage to fit in how I understand most evangelicals to read the bible.