Women at Volkswagen AG get equal pay for equal work only during government testing.

I applaud the open minded question.

Well, my wife has worked competently at the blood bank for over 10 years. Her responsibilities increased, so her boss hired her an assistant with absolutely no training, and hired him (as an assistant) at the same pay rate she got after 10 years of being there (and being a department head)....so you can say they get the 'same pay for the same work', but she had to work competently for 10+ years to get that pay rate, he got it day one for nothing more than showing up with a penis....and he lasted less than a year.

EDIT: I also have to think that the uncontested under representation at the top means a HUGE discrepancy across the board. Consider that the top 5% receive 72% of the GDP, so a small under representation there is multiplied greatly when the math gets done. Lets say for argument sake that the remaining 95% are paid exactly equally, but women are completely missing in the top 5% (almost true). That means men would receive 86% of GDP, women 14%, even though women are actually 47% of the workforce and all paid equal pay for equal work.

Honest Question.

I'v heard about this pay equality for years....
But I've never seen the discrepancies.
In every job I've been in, the pay was always the same for men or women. Always.
Any job I've seen for friends or family, the pay rates were always exactly the same.

In more than 2/3 of the jobs I've held in my life, my bosses above me were women, not men.

My question is what parts of industry is the pay gap true, and is it as widespread as they are saying.

(because I'm not seeing it.)
I can see how most CEOs are male run, that is a slow change, but the majority of positions I see are equal pay.

Okay.... Go....

An interesting Quote:

"Fancy" is my strongest statement for women's lib, if you really listen to it. I agree wholeheartedly with that movement and all the serious issues that they stand for — equality, equal pay, day care centers, and abortion rights."
---Bobbie Gentry, Singer Songwriter

I think the Democratic voters failed to turn out for a few reasons. All the media made it seem like it was going to be a Republican win, even the "liberal media" was portraying it that way. This led to a defeatist "what can I do?" mentality. Another is that Democrats failed to really push a couple key issues, namely raising the minimum wage and equal pay for equal work. Heck, even just saying that minimum wage will be tied to inflation and go up with inflation each yet, even if it isn't fully adjusted to where it would be now, would have been a big step forward. They shied away from those, just like when they passed Obamacare they shied away from single payer or the government option that was promised and instead gave us an old Republican plan under the assumption Republicans would be glad the Democrats caved in and accepted a Republican idea.

The Democrats failed to deliver largely because Republican obstructionism. This isn't to absolve them of their failure during the two years they could have really moved forward with a true progressive agenda.

Fox News and the pulpit have the Republican voter base convinced to vote Republican, that Obama is singlehandedly destroying America (I'm surrounded by these people every day, I have to unfortunately live with them, I used to be a right wing, Christian Republican myself, then became a right wing Christian Libertarian before I actually started applying real critical thought to the economic impact of the policies as society stands now and became more Liberal). The pulpit has convinced these people that it doesn't matter Jesus said to help the needy and the poor, to heal the sick, and basically everything 100% opposite of the beliefs of the Republican party, to vote Republican anyhow, and it to be the Christian vote. They deny being Christian Reconstructionist while being clearly Reconstructionist. They say things like "if you actually think about it critically, CO2 is good for plants, so their argument is silly" and they accept it, because plants absorb CO2 they think that CO2 emissions can't be as bad as the environmentalist say it is, after all, greenhouses pump CO2 into them to make plants grow better. Again I was guilty of repeating that sort of non-sense. Then it occurred to me there are no walls around plants in the wild, there is no ceiling to help keep CO2 near where plants are, and the fact that very little of the Earth is filled with green (let alone the fact most plants are doing as much CO2 exchange as they can already).... that most of the Earth is blue... that yes the ocean absorbs CO2, but in doing to warms it and that drives massive changes including storms in of itself and learned the real consequences of CO2 emissions.

As Ralph Nader recently pointed out (http://videosift.com/video/Ralph-Nader-on-GOP-8482-s-2014-Wins) the Democrats can't just blame Citizens United or attempts by Republicans to try and limit voting among the poor, they have to take a look at the fact they didn't push the issues that most Americans stand behind but didn't push.

I like the idea of moving elections to the weekend. That probably would help more than some calls of late to make it a Federal Holiday. Most places don't close on Federal Holiday's anyhow, so that won't really help as much as moving it to a weekend... of course one could also argue that people might not want to take time out of their weekends to vote.

Simply by having the same education level does not grant you equal pay (unless you're working in government). You're paid for the supply and demand of your skills. There are by far MANY more men than women in engineering and physical sciences, and those fields pay rather well. There are by far MANY more women than men in veterinary and educational fields, and those fields pay atrociously.

It is indeed unfortunate if any discrimination occurs, and even if women achieve 99% of men, it is still not nice. However, recognize that nobody is particularly certain about these numbers. I see numbers ranging from 87% to 103% in this video, so our certainty is horrible. Inequality is bad, but if you're going to get particularly opinionated about it, crunch the numbers for yourself instead of letting other boneheads skew the numbers for you.

The statistics can be pulled either way by horrible analyses, and trying to compare 'equal jobs' can be hard...particularly when you factor in cost of living differences, seniority, relative success of different companies, etc. The most compelling evidence was the Yale study where identical resumes with different names were awarded different amounts of speculative money. That was the only real telling evidence that, at least among the people in that study, there is a bias towards paying women less for exactly the same job. However, the statistics can be pulled either way in a study like that as well; what is the uncertainty of the pay level for that poll? Is it random chance and statistical noise happened to end up with the woman paid less in that study? If they surveyed an order of magnitude more people, would the average salaries converge to the same value? In most polls and studies like this, the sampling size is usually quite poor, and getting such an exact dollar figure difference with high certainty is nearly impossible. It would be great to see that study to make an assessment of how much uncertainty was present for myself.

That is quoted once in the whole clip. The number has hovered between $0.70-$0.85 for the last few decades that the issue has been talked about openly.

Where do you get the impression that Oliver is arguing about equal pay for dissimilar jobs at any point in the entire segment? I do not see that at any point. If that were true, obviously that would be ridiculous. The goal here is equality, not up-ending the whole system of employment.

Lastly, as it's said plainly in the first few minutes of the clip: "Equal pay for equal work". There are two points I would like to make here:
1) that's clearly not an argument for inequality in favor of work compensation for women over men, and
2) If we *really* wanted to pay people equally for their work, mexican migrants who pick our vegetables every season, movers, factory-workers, carpenters and any other manual-labor jobs would be living the highlife in their gated communities with million-dollar homes, and most CEO's, wallstreet bankers, and office joe's would be scraping by in the 'burbs.

@lantern53 -- what part of EQUAL PAY for EQUAL WORK did you not understand?

Ok, for any and everyone who says "we're just too weak": welcome to the hyper-macho culture. For starters, you're right, I know your husband beats you, but seriously, deal with it. Grow the fuck up and get over yourself. Right? No?

The problem with certain forms of abuse is that many recognize they may in fact be participating in it, and to defend themselves from feeling bad, they justify it. For instance, in extreme examples, SLAVERY!

I posted a link to another video which makes the point: when you start dehumanizing the subject of your intentions, it becomes okay because they're just objects. That's the real issue here: these catcalls become, if you want to call it, a gateway drug for dehumanization.

And I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks we've just become pansies and these women need to suck it up, well, I'm sorry but __|__

How is being denied a job because of your sex a "suck it up" situation? Oh, you wanted to get the manager position? Well, we gave it to your less qualified male counterpart for more money than we intended to pay you anyway.

Why is there still a pay disparity? Equal work = equal pay? Unless you're female. Not to mention all the women passed over for promotions because they're simply not pretty enough. Or hell, just go to a Hooters . . . or Tilted Kilt, Winghouse or any other establishment that's frequented by males who are simply there because of the "hot chicks". I doubt many of those places could exist on their food quality alone.

While stopping to asshole YouTube comments isn't going to solve women's equalities issues, it will help. Intolerance for intolerance will be the only solution. Letting these YouTuber's harass females (yes, it is harassment, not a compliment) and putting women into uncomfortable situations because you feel like you're giving them compliment will only make matters worse.

For instance, go to a gay club and see how you feel when guys are constantly catcalling you, telling you they'd love to fuck you etc. Trust me, when it happens to you, it's not a compliment. It's damned creepy.

Now, if your female friend did her hair, got a new dress etc and you tell her she looks pretty, that's one thing. Telling a random stranger "Hey beautiful" etc doesn't win you any favors.

because election season is over. same reason you don't hear much talk about gay marriage or equal pay for women anymore either.

no one is blaming Obama for gas prices either...but that's mostly because they are lower currently. Funny how the president is in direct control of gas prices only when they're high. when they're lower, suddenly it's not his fault...hrm.

yeah, with NonOptimalGate, you have one inartful phrase cherry picked out of an interview where he articulates just how pissed he is about the situation and how he's resolved to bring those responsible to justice. He voiced his anger in the interview, and he voiced his anger in the debates, and it should be obvious that he's probably voiced his anger in other venues

with BindersFullOfWomenGate, you have another inartful phrase, also cherry-picked, but there is no supporting evidence that Mitt actually does give a damn about the equality of women in the workplace. The only reason the issue was even brought up is the apparent resistance from the right to acknowledge that women deserve equal pay and proper health care. The rest of the world wonders why this is an even an issue. The reasonable people of the world thought we resolved the issue of equality for women a long time ago.

I don't really understand how you can say "If you don't want to get raped, don't dress like a slut", as if raping sluts is somehow normal or more approved of. Raping anyone is bad, whatever their profession is. Though I do agree with the similar sentiment that "If you don't want to be thought of as a slut, don't dress like a slut." Just like (borrowing from Dave Chappelle) if you don't want to be thought of as a policeman don't go wearing a police uniform.

About the equal pay, they go on about it here too, but it's frankly just bullshit. They get the statistics by running together averages of every job but neglect the fact that if you take a man and a woman who do the same job and have equal experience, they get equal per hour pay. The fact that women on average end up in lower paying jobs and/or do less hours is another issue entirely. If we "equalized" the wages like they're suggesting it'd lead to a situation where women get paid more for less work, which is even less equal.

The microaggression thing... Really? People take the words that seriously? What the fuck is wrong with people? And aren't most swear words in English actually religious in origin, rather than sexual in nature? And even then, I can't think of a single swear word that says "what women do during sex is bad and humiliating". Any suggestions?

Reproductive health... Well, the American medical system is fucked up beyond recognition anyways, so par for the course. Good luck with that.

Media representation is a pretty valid point though, but I must say you don't really see a wide variety of men either, they're largely homogenized in very similar ways to how women in media are usually portrayed. And to the sheer amount of women on TV... I'd like to think that if more women were better at it than men, then there'd be more women there. I don't want a 50/50 split just for the sake of equality, I want the best people to do the jobs whether they're men or women.

@rbar sorry I didn't see your last post. I think this UDHR is pretty noble but unknowingly evil, because it states that people have all sorts of rights, but what happens to the costs and demands those rights impose? To enforce them would imply a huge amount of force that would deny people of even more basic rights the declaration supposedly claims to protect. Take for example, "Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work". Does that mean the price of labor should be controlled?? By whom? To see that policy enforced, would be an egregious assault on economic freedom.

My ideal is a society where most if not all of these problems that socialists and liberals are also concerned about, like people's material needs being met, living happy productive lives, etc. are handled in an environment where the right incentives and freedoms allows creative solutions and resources to be best allocated voluntarily, rather than by mandates that are noble and well intended, and seem to handle the problem in the short run, but cause a lot more trouble than they are worth because they destroy this very environment in which society thrives.

Your video of Noam Chomsky commenting on Ron Paul's answer in a republican debate, "what if some guy is on a coma and he's going to die" to which he supposedly replied, "it's a tribute to our liberty", is a gross misrepresentation, that was never the answer Ron Paul gave. I'll bet Noam Chomsky wouldn't like to be paraphrased into saying the opposite of what he meant, he just understood what he wanted based on his own preconceptions.

Watch the actual footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMHY21VA8WE
(And please don't confuse a few members of the audience yelling "Yes!" with the position of the Tea Party (not that I care what they think) or Ron Paul's)

Before you talk about capitalism and democracy balancing each other out, you must first question what really happens when people are given economic freedom. A contrived scenario is playing out in your mind.

It's like if someone told you that if people had freedom of expression, people would just start spewing lies on top of lies and society would bury every shred of truth and dignity until it became unrecognizable. All I'm saying is that freedom of expression is beautiful, it's far from perfect, a lot of people will say terrible things, but it's a much better environment than censorship, and that it's not naive to expect freedom of expression to improve society with time, making truth more and more available and affordable to everyone, not only making our society more civilized but effectively raising our standards of living.

Only I'm not arguing about freedom of expression, but economic freedom.

@renatojj

Whether or not everyone is entitled to a job or money is a question I never thought about. The universal declaration for human rights (UDHR) states it as follows:
"The UDHR included both economic, social and cultural rights and civil and political rights because it was based on the principle that the different rights could only successfully exist in combination" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights (parts classification and indivisibility)

Its really interesting to read the declarations 22 to 28 of the UDHR. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights#Article_22)

For instance:
Article 23
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

I havent thought this through, but all of the above seem to me to not be inline with free market policies as free market policies dictate against the above rules favoring the natural motion of the market to guide the market along. Natural motion meaning that if there are moments of superfluous workers (large unemployment like today), they dont have a job and dont get paid, which forces them to either start working for themselves or die out which in both cases balance the market again.

A question inline with this: I just dont understand what your ideal is. Is there some country that comes close to your ideal or can you describe what you want to achieve?

Just having less government IMHO isnt a goal, its a means. Is your goal to maximize individual freedom (Ayn Rand style)? Though she has some ideas I fully agree to (rationalism as the only mean to knowledge vs faith for instance) her objectivism has never had much success with academia and for good reason.

Someone much more eloquent then me explained it this way (though he was talking about libertarian-ism, a close relative):
http://videosift.com/video/Noam-Chomsky-on-Ron-Paul-Hes-a-nice-guy-but

One reason democracy and capitalism have done so well for so long is because they keep each other in balance. Democracy is the rights of the majority over the minority. Capitalism (of which free market policy is a part) is the right of the individual, ie the minority over the majority. Both in and off themselves are disastrous. The balance is just where its at. Free market policies push in the direction of capitalism and away from balance. IMHO not what we want.

>> ^bareboards2:

How often do you hear males over age 17-19 as being referred to as "boys"?>> ^packo:
didn't watch the vid, didn't really care... the only thing that caught my interest was that calling women "girls" is blatant sexism... that made me laugh
primarily because more women i know refer to themselves in different ways as "girls" than guys refer to them
is this a new "n word"? lol



All the Fucking Time. Yeah we live in a sexist world. Being rude to someone doesn't mean you're sexist, and it isn't a sexist term. I'm rude to lots of people, doesn't have anything to do with what age, sex, or color they are. It's just that they're a fucking disgusting human being that's breathing around me and I hate them DEAD.

Quit making shit up to fight against when there's real battles you could be fighting. Get the girls some equal pay, that's something worthwhile.