No problems at all. I used to hate vegans with a passion, I'd be the first person to shout them down in public even at the expense of dignity So I know what it's like to be on both sides of the concept.

There are also definitely a good number of dickhead vegans, who use it as a social status, and they are often the loudest, so I'm not surprised that people automatically take insult to anything with the vegan label attached to it.

Here's a short and interesting piece on a culture shift in western society, from dignity towards reverse honour aka a culture of victimhood:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/rhodes-must-fall-from-dignity-to-honour-values

Under the guise of hypersensitive offense-taking, the self-worth we once held intrinsic and inalienable is again becoming contestable and anxiety-inducing. Like in the old days of honor culture, self-worth is again understood as an internalised right to respect. No longer content with dignity as a remedy against injustice, people resort to confrontational and resentful tactics reminiscent of honor culture.

If you think a rule imposed by any authority is unjust, feel free to practice some civil disobedience.

But part of the impact of civil disobedience comes from accepting the (unjust) punishment / consequences of that disobedience with some dignity. That is what really persuades other people to see the injustice in the same light that you do.

Occupying a "federal building" that is only very tenuously connected to the word "federal" and then taking to Facebook to beg for "bare necessity" supplies (like French vanilla coffee creamer) is not dignified.

Yelling and cussing at a University Dean (?) because ... um, I actually can't figure out what she's upset about ... is not dignified.


Rosa Parks refused to leave her "colored seating" place on a bus when the driver demanded that she vacate it for some white people. He said "why don't you stand up?", and she said "I don't think I should have to". He told her he was going to call the police, and she said "you may do that." She had more dignity in her little finger than all of the Oregon clowns have put together.

That's why today, more than 60 years after the fact, people still remember what she did. The Oregon dudes will be lucky to be remembered 60 *hours* after their "occupation" of that building ends.

@Jinx
this is why i specifically titled this "third wave",which i am fairly new in understanding,but it does not resemble the feminism that i have been exposed to.

i have many feminist friends who resemble nothing like this "third wave" of feminism.the deeper i delve the more fanatical and zealous i find their positions.

the feminists i know do not hate men.
do not seek to subvert them or marginalize them.
they seek for equality,for human dignity,for a right to be/choose who they wish to be,and they extend that to men as well.

which is very much a humanist approach.

but THIS flavor of feminism is a whole new animal.

if you own a penis,
you are evil.

@ChaosEngine --

I understand and largely agree with what you are saying, but "enforced solitude and inactivity" vs "nicest cage" is a false dichotomy in the same way my comment was. I wasn't saying that the ideal rehabilitation solutions are either "rape 'n shiv" or "isolation", just that if those *were* the only two options available to me, I think I'd personally opt for isolation.

I 100% agree that a better environment and being treated with some dignity and respect is infinitely more likely to actually rehabilitate someone than focusing on the punishment aspect. On the other hand, some limitations on the "nicest cage" approach are likely necessary. Maybe violent people need to be kept in relative isolation until they can prove that they are able to move beyond that, etc.

And I think that at some point, there has to be a tipping point in the cost-benefit analysis of "attempt to rehabilitate this person into being a functional member of society" vs "make certain that this person is physically prevented from causing any further damage to society". Those are extreme cases, but I think that in those cases "physically prevented from causing damage" might reasonably be applied through either "locked in isolation with only basic needs (food, water) provided for for the rest of their life" or the death penalty. And in most cases, I think that if it has really come to the point of those, a quick and hopefully painless death is probably the less cruel and unusual option...

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-obscene-salaries-encourage-contempt-for-the-simple-dignity-of-a-job-well-done-1.2449165

So you make up out of thin air the most depressing story of what this guy's life might eventually turn out to be, use words of divisiveness (look! he's scrounging off the taxpayer everyone!) and use that to justify pre-emptively killing mentally ill people who fit the definition of "dangerous" by your Dickensian outlook.

You want to talk about people scrounging off the taxpayer then let's talk about corporate welfare and dodgy tax havens, about how starbucks, google and amazon get away with paying no tax when we are taxed on our earnings. You call this ill man a scrounger, when george osbourne's family no less has a dodgy 6 million offshore tax deal to name but one of a million examples.

Or let's talk about this guy's parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters who paid into the social system, earning potentially millions for this country. In return they only ask that their son is cared for with respect and dignity in spite of the nature of his illness, and the social system would still have made a net surplus off their family.

How about we talk about the recovery he made as a counsellor for PTSD sufferers or other mentally ill people? Or how in ten years time he ends up as a lollipop man helping kids cross the street to school. What about all the tax he eventually paid on his subsequent and previous earnings, does that matter?

Your dim, dark prediction and understanding of mental illness AND socialism is fucking archaic. Were you frozen in Victorian Britain and thawed out last week or something? Go back to watching the idiot box, i'm sure the latest episode of benefits street will keep you distracted while cameron and his cronies swindle this country. I don't mean to make this overly political but this is EXACTLY what the politics of divide and rule is all about. The TV programs, the newspapers - with shows and stories about benefits and migrants - they all conspire to convince person A that they should blame person B, meanwhile person Z is laughing their way to the bank. And you lap it up and take it to the extreme of putting PEOPLE to sleep!?

In this country, we all contribute to the social system so that everyone can be looked after. It drives me potty hearing someone complain about taxpayer's money going to ill and unfortunate people when all it would take is one single bad day for that same person to suddenly need all that help and more.

Did you see either of these?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/goodbye-middle-class-51-percent-of-all-american-workers-make-less-than-30000-dollars-a-year.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/26/overcrowding-sharing-bed-housing

If you add the EPI's more detailed analysis of what the lowest basic budget for a family of four is in different parts of the US, the first link turns from depressing into outright infuriating.

As for the second link, I'll keep my comment as simple as it should be: a roof over your head is a fundamental right if you value human dignity at all, so that shit is fucked up beyond belief.

There should be nothing wrong with nudity for any sake. Nudity is a natural freedom that is unnaturally restricted and incorrectly considered as something which requires special circumstances. What about expression as the circumstance?

I was not aroused (And even if I was, so what?) but I enjoyed their natural beauty and the clever approach to the nude. Is a painting of a nude somehow more acceptable than a filmed nude? What is the point of either art form, if not the simple and profound concept of human dignity. Not a peep show any more than a series of nude paintings. Both are artistic expressions.

First of all, Flassbeck is the only(!) prominent economist in Germany arguing strictly against the madness of austerity. But he's living in the border region between France and Switzerland, so he's a European more than a German.

Among all the economic think tanks in Germany, only the union-sponsored IMK makes a credible case against this madness. Everyone else is more or less in line with the neoclassic perspective. Not a Keynesian in sight, much less a post-Keynesian group.

But now to the meat of the issue. There will be no major political shift in Germany in the near future. As Flassbeck stated, only a single party opposes the financial inquisition commonly known as the Troika. Unfortunatly, it's the socialists, and despite overwhelmingly popular policies, they are still an absolute no-go for large swaths of the demos thanks to the authoritarian regime in East Germany. Sucks, but it is what it is.

So it's up to the French people once again to save the continent from itself. Noone else has the balls or the influence to put an end to this misguided union. How likely is it for the French government to openly challenge German hegemony soon? I wouldn't bet on it. Which means the Greeks are fuuuucked².

In any case, what would it take for Greece to stabilise? And by stabilise I'm talking about a return to a manageable level of unemployment, a working healthcare system and social safety net. A conservative guesstimate would be a public deficit of ~10% of GDP for at least 5 straight years. Alternatively, the EIB would have to prop up Greece with €50b a year for the same number of years. To get a working bureaucracy, to undo four decades of nepotism, Greece would basically need a generation to reestablish itself as a state – and it would require appropriate financing.

Now remember which of Syriza's demands is painted as most controversial right now: debt restructuring. Debt restructuring, while neccessary at some point, is entirely pointless as long as the fiscal policy remains contractionary. Greece needs austerity to stop, right the fuck now. Greece needs to provide income-generating jobs for its people. All the talk about debt is utterly pointless, because at 25% unemployment, we're looking at permanent damage in every way imaginable. The social toll alone should be completely unacceptable within Europe if we truly gave two shits about human dignity.

So, even if Syriza get their way tomorrow, Greece would still be flushed down the shitter. Syriza's proposal is contractionary. Any primary surplus in this situation is contractionary.

Greece is done within the Euro. The use of a foreign currency makes it impossible to use appropriate fiscal policy on their own. Unfortunatly, but also intentionally, the currency issuer, the ECB, is placed outside the democratic control of the European Parliament, or any national parliament for that matter. Fiscal policy within the EZ was taken out of the control of our elected representatives to ensure that the neoclassic/neoliberal approach was irrevocably built into the system. We can thank Germany for that, by the way.

There is a shortage of spending in Greece. There is a shortage of spending in Spain. There is a shortage of spending in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, France. There is a shortage of spending in Germany, for fuck's sake. Put the ECB under control of the EP, add full employment (2-3% unemployment) to its mandate, and have them finance the appropriate programs at the national level. The output gap in Europe is so massive, the un(der)employment so vast, they could spend a trillion Euros and inflation would still not reach the agreed upon target value of 2%.

All it would take to change the rules is consent from every national parliament in the union. Might as well go skinny-dipping instead.

This was his comment about the video.

“Who are the officers?”
Officer Aymee Race (badge #6856), she works for the Utah Transit Authority Police Department. Name and badge number are given in the video because it's in the public interest. The officers in the video are public servants acting unlawfully.

“You brought it on yourself! You wouldn’t have been given a ticket if you would have just politely complied!”
I knew that if I stood up for my rights they were going to give me a ticket (or worse), but $50 is a small price to pay for my dignity. “The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose.” –Fredrick Douglas

“You set up the video! You went there to harass the cops!”
No. I didn’t. This is my only youtube video, and frankly I wish it had never happened.

“You should never insult police officers! You’re only going to make them mad and get it worse!”
You’re the problem with America. Bootlicking cowards like you make me sick. You all deserve the government you have.

“You should never give an officer your I.D.! “
Utah is one of the few states with a show me your papers law. I had a busy schedule that day and I couldn't afford to be arrested. But thanks for the amateur legal advice.

“You’re grammar is horrible and discredits your point!”
I’m not very computer savvy so I had a cheap Bangladeshi freelancer edit the video through skype. I didn't even take the time to review his work. I didn't notice it had posted and gone viral until months later.

“Did you sign the ticket?”
Yes, with the words “by coercion” written next to my signature. Like I said, $50 is nothing, and I had very important things to do that day, I couldn’t afford to be arrested.

“Is the UTA private property or public property? Why are police working security?”
Both unfortunately. The UTA is a great example of crony-capitalism. It’s a tax payer subsidized private company.

A note from the owner of this channel:

Since this video first went viral I have received many death threats and I’m sure the officers involved have received death threats. I was once a very outspoken anarcho-capitalist, but as time has passed my political views have matured. All I want now is to tend to my business and live my life. All the anti-police violence is not conducive to freedom. Things are getting bad. And it’s only going to get worse. A lot worse. I want nothing to do with it. When the shit hits the fan I'll be watching the U.S. government and the revolutionaries have at it from my laptop on the beach in Tahiti. I'm not going to support changing an evil system for a slightly less evil one (or a worse one). A real revolution is a philosophical one, once a revolution becomes violent it is already lost. And frankly the human race has let me down. I know now that human beings are just not ready for peace. What are human beings fit for other than being ruled? It is what it is. I’m now a social darwinist, I'll support whoever benefits my business and my family. ..and political instability is not beneficial to either one. Anarcho-Capitalists like to compare livestock to people and say that animals (humans) would be able to live free without the farmer (ruling class). Well, I disagree; some species of animals are so stupid, so domesticated, that they would starve without the farmer. And I think that is the case with 99% of the human species. Human beings need government, and they usually get the government they deserve. Don’t get me wrong, I do have empathy for the people being oppressed, but I now understand the ruling class, I see were they’re coming from. Again, I want nothing to do with politics. I’m not a social activist. All I care about is my business and my family. So please leave me alone.

This is hilarious.

Not the challenge itself, that's fucking stupid.

No, it's pathetic attempts to cover up the nipples. Yes, you're holding a coke can with your breasts, but if you showed your nipples, well, that would just make you a tramp. But a bit of tape? Dignity preserved!

The problem with white culture is.. @lantern53, @newtboy & @AllWhitePeople

White Privilege insulated you from the reality of your advantages and the true suffering of others who aren't white

Hell, white people include if poor uneducated.

(I asked a white friend.
He said that white people just see other white people as strangers.
Makes sense now I guess)

You live in this White Privilege Bubble where "everyone's equal cause this is AMERICA!"

Everyone in your bubble has bootstraps. A safety net.
Reliable job opportunites and call-backs.
No fear of being harassed and/or murdered by police.
The general unconditional trust of society



In the bubble of impoverished black culture, however.. having a chance at leaving that poverty is a pipe-dream.

I know, because I live in Atlanta.
A place notorious for lots of poor black communities.

My girlfriend was born and raised in it.

Her parents were addicted to crack.
(Funny how crack possession carries a harsher sentence than cocaine possession, considering their the exact same drug.)

She saw a dead body in the street when she was 6.
(Gang violence is present when decent jobs and summer camps aren't)

She had Police SWAT invade her home & hold a gun to her head around the same age.
(Because busting potential drug dealers is more important that entering the correct house.)

Her cousin, who was probably a prostitute since 12 or 13, is currently very happy that her new "boyfriend" doesn't beat her.
(She feels like that's a win. Hell, my girlfriend was herself convinced that she'd "grow up to be a prostitute."
You know, the norm.)

For the last 5 months, my girlfriend has lived with a 21 year old prostitute (started at 14 when homeless) and her much older "boyfriend"/pimp because that was the only "affordable" housing near her work.

(She mentioned that earlier this month, there was a new girl there some mornings who was definitely probably 13 or 14.
She literally just moved out today and happened to spot her ex-roommate working her corner near West End Mall. )

So yeah, white people assume - No, righteously assert - all black people are just a equal as white people.

Because you all think:

"I've got bootstraps & dignity & great opportunites & everlasting hope.
Stop whining and take personal responsibility."

The reality is starkly different.

Black people are reminded of that difference LITERALLY EVERYDAY.

We're remind everytime an unarmed black youth is murder, just for "looking threatening".

Even with civil rights laws, even with a brown president.

You'll never know what it's truly like to be non-white..

Because White Privilege prevents you from even having to acknowledge these issue.

Just call it all even and blame the rest on personal responsibility.

Um, Yes, it is a right.
It certainly is my right, and to all that claim that right, it's their right not to be under surveillance of any kind.

"Privacy is a fundamental human right recognized in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the International Convenant on Civil and Political Rights and in many other international and regional treaties. Privacy underpins human dignity and other key values such as freedom of association and freedom of speech. It has become one of the most important human rights issues of the modern age. "
-- http://gilc.org/privacy/survey/intro.html

The yt description also says they've named him Will, and that he would be unsuitable for rehabilitation to the wild, as he was born in captivity in Brazil, but they want him to lead a life with as much dignity as possible from here on in.