well this hits me close.

I live in chile, in a rural area that was one of the few not in quarantine in the area. i have a bakery and since march even before govt mandate we shifted to takeaway and closed off the shop to customers, and reduced our shift to one person on site for only 4 hours, with PPE. a week ago, a guy from out of town came (taking advantage there was no quarantine here and thus notaries like the one next to me are open) and asked to use the bathroom, my employee refused and the guy then made a one minute video showing 2 people show up without masks, he walks up and starts berating them for not respecting the law and everyone there (mostly old ladies) basically got too scared to defend themselves, so the video looks bad. we ended up on the news, shut down, huge fine, for customers' behavior outside our shop- all because of a video that intentionally made it appear like we were serving people normally when that wasn't the case.

so im now more sensitive to the corona righteous as well as these short viral videos in general. unless those people eating outside were following her around and intentionally coughing on her, there is nothing to justify her using mace on them, but i agree that the video doesnt show enough to establish that. people everywhere need to adapt to the new reality and im all for prevention including hard quarantines where necessary, but we also have to be reasonable about how we approach one another and understand there are acceptable risks, such as having picnics or playing tennis, and unacceptable ones like not wearing a mask indoors or in groups.

Eating outside? In a dog park? Edit: In a dog park with a posted "no food" policy? Without masks in a state where masks are mandatory in public?
Somehow I think this isn't telling the whole story. When it starts, the man is standing up, touching her, not calmly eating. I need to see the 2 minutes before she sprays them to decide who's the nutjob here. Almost always it's the anti maskers who rush up and cough on people after being called out, that's assault with a deadly weapon, mace is perfectly reasonable as a defense.
Edit: After reading a few reports, it seems the sprayees can't keep their story straight...in some interviews they say she came up to them ranting, out of nowhere, yelling about food and masks, spray in hand, and just started spraying them. In other interviews, they say she came up yelling, went to her car to get the spray, then returned and just started spraying. Not a good sign.

I'm withholding judgement. It's sounding fishy.

We need a national policy, enforced, like most countries that got control of the Trump virus, with heavy fines or arrests for being unmasked in public spaces. Sadly, thanks to a lack of leadership, we have instead a top leader claiming masks don't work, the virus is a hoax, go about your business, and no national plan at all.

Karen's neigbhour should just (fake) cough and sneezes until either Karen wears a mask or leave.

Sitting or walking outside in 40C weather? Ehhh...ok I can understand not wearing one but try and keep a reasonable distance from other people. But inside a public building or a store when you KNOW that the expectation (and courteous thing to do) is that you wear a mask? WEAR IT. I don't get these people having a freak out and throwing things around or trashing the store. If you're really against wearing a mask, then freaking order your shit online and stay away from other people.

Hopefully that woman that walked over to another customer and coughed on them was charged.

I have NEVER hit a woman in my life but in these times if one like those coughed on me, I'd knock that bitch out. People thinking they can do that without repercussions is absurd...

Sorry, 1.5-2m is not really a safe distance without a mask, it's the average distance infectious droplets travel from normal speaking. Coughs and sneezes can spray infectious droplets 23-27 ft before they evaporate. The distancing guidelines are based on older studies of bacterial meningitis, not Covid 19. Bacteria are way easier to kill than viruses.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance

Newt,

This is in response to your comment on my statement about Biden needing to lose in '20.

I recently wrote this as a reply to one of my readers (I write under a number of different names in other places).:

Dear <name>,

>I took some time to absorb what you wrote. It's a lot to juggle. The Atlantic has an article in the July-August issue on the worst and best case scenario in CLO defaults. I'll read more.

I read the article you mentioned, and while it's certainly good, it also misses a very important point that explains the mess we're in: the collapse of Lehman and Bear-Stearns, while catastrophic in their own ways, were not the nightmare that caused the Fed to freak out in 2008 -- AIG was. Had AIG gone under and the counterparty default contracts triggered, we'd be on the barter system right now. We came within hours of not having an economy in the western world. The $700b ($.7t) the Fed coughed up to stop this from happening calmed the panic, but did nothing to resolve the underlying issues. These issues continued to compound during the 2011-2020 stock run-up and now we're at the point where the Fed is throwing trillions of dollars at every piece of bad debt they can find just to keep the whole thing from imploding into an economic black hole. It is important to note that in September '19, the credit markets started freezing because of the debt that was already on the books then, -before- CV-19 started rolling, and it took $3t just to get them unlocked again. Absolutely nothing has gotten better since then, and I would argue things have gotten dangerously worse.

In an odd coincidence, the NYT ran an article today about the looming bankruptcy crisis. They're calling for 30-60 days before things start imploding, but I'll stick to my estimate of ~90 days. There's some talk about extending the $600 benefits (we'll see) and chatter about another stimulus check, but that's kicking the can as well as telegraphing how bad things really are. When the Republicans are getting behind free money, you know we're in some uncharted territory. For all intents and purposes, Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) -- the reason the Fed is backstopping debt and printing money like crazy -- is the hill the US economy will live or die on. Should the US dollar come unpegged as the world's de facto currency or should inflation begin (and there's already worrying signs this is happening), that's game over.

Please don't take anything I say as the Word of God; please do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Everything I've said is an opinion based on my education, experience and way of thinking. Your mileage may vary.

Here is the article I mentioned: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/business/corporate-bankruptcy-coronavirus.html -- might be paywalled, but clear your cookies for the NYT and you should be able to read it.


>Frankly, it's the physical danger in my area of the States that concerns me. There are the guns and bullying. During some BLM demonstrations in the Midwest, locals were standing around with semi-automatics. I drive a Prius for the fuel efficiency. Pick up trucks enjoy tailgating, trying to intimidate me. This behavior isn't going to change with a change of President but will get worse is we don't change. This ideological push to takeover the country instead of ruling by compromise started around the same time we came to the US in 1981, Reagan's first year. I was so shocked when I heard talk radio for the first time; this wasn't the country I had left in the 1970s.


And now we come to the giant pile of sweaty dynamite that's just waiting for the right shock to set it off. I could give you a prolonged lecture about how this all started in 1978 with California's Proposition 13, or how David Stockman's tragically prescient warnings were blatantly ignored, but Haynes Johnson does a far better job at this than I ever could in his 1991 book "Sleepwalking Through History", as does Kevin Phillips in 2006's "American Theocracy". Honestly, at this point, the prelude is academic. The reality of the situation is that a large swath of adult Americans are appalling ill-educated, innumerate and devoid of even the most basic critical-thinking skills. These people are now locked out of the Information Economy. They lack the most basic skills required to compete in the 21st century job market and thus will watch their standard of living sink into the abyss. These people are not blind to this fact because they're living with the reality of their situation every single day. They're totally without hope, cut off from all avenues of control over their own lives and they feel utterly abandoned by the very people who're supposed to be helping them. The reason you're seeing bullying and behavior like that is because these same people are totally removed from any avenues of recourse and the only people they can take their anger out on are people like you and me. Their anger is being stoked on a daily basis. FOX News and the GOP are experts at this and have a host of boogeymen to keep the anger from being pointed their way: ANTIFA, BLM (black Americans have always made a perfect target), "coastal elites" and, of course, Liberals.

Trump's election was a warning, not an outlier. Trump was the primal scream of these people and Liberals and the Democrats as a whole chose not to listen because they found the sound so abhorrent. The rage will only get worse and the number of people enveloped by this rage will only grow as economic conditions worsen. At this point, it no longer matters who wins in '20. Winning the election will be like winning the deed to the World Trade Center one second after the first jet hit. The damage has already been done and no steps are being taken to repair it; if anything, people are actively making it worse either through ideological blindness, deliberate malfeasance or outright stupidity. It took almost 50 years to get to this point and the endemic issues will not be undone in a single generation, much less a single election. Until the people who voted for Trump feel a sense of real hope, a sense of control over their lives and a genuine expectation of recourse for their grievances, they will keep right on voting for Trump, or people like him.

My unfortunate suspicion is that this country will rip itself to shreds long before those reforms are enacted.

Side note: the fundamental difference between the United States and Europe is that European history has forced the nations of Europe to live with the consequences of their actions. Not so the United States. Europe has suffered for her sins. Not so the United States. The two bloodiest wars in human history were fought on European soil. Not so the United States. The United States has never faced true suffering, nor has it ever had to live with the ramifications of its own actions. Both these facts are about to change and a nation whose character is built on a mythology of individual action and violence is going to have to face reality. The people of this nation are not prepared for this and they will not like it.

Second side note: many people are erroneously comparing the current situation to the Wiemar Republic. This is a lack of historical understanding. A more apt comparison would be to Spain in late 1935.


>As for re-opening, we could have gotten some control if the "leader" had simply donned a mask and used realistic thinking. People could go back to work more safely, wash hands, stay a certain distance. But his hubris led the way, so now we'll have a roller coaster for months and years that will affect the economy even more. France is a good comparison because they were unprepared also, having slashed the public healthcare budget for the last twenty years. But when they laid down the rules, troops patrolled the streets to be sure they were followed. So far, they've flattened the curve (for now), and used different economic incentives, such as paying part of employees' salaries to keep them employed.

At this point, the pace of re-opening is a difference between very bad and much worse. Had $3t been used to pay the yearly salary of every American, we could have saved lives and the economy, but we didn't. The history of 2020 will be littered with "what-ifs". However, the first thing you learn when studying history is that what-ifs are useless because things are what they are and you can't change that. It's already obvious we're going into a second wave. If previous pandemics are any indication of what's to come, this second wave will be many times worse than the first. The wait for a vaccine is indeterminate, but if we're going for herd immunity, ~70% of Americans will need to catch the virus. To date, ~1.5% have. If the US population is ~330 million, ~230 million will need to catch the virus. Call the mortality rate 2%, that means ~4.6 million Americans will die. That's a lot of dead Americans and grieving families.

Take care,

(my actual name)

/me sneezes, coughs, etc.

I thought that was tall tree!

More head up your ass denial from the right. Do your research...you'll find that, unlike every other president ever, Trump continues to hide his assets and refuse to divest in non-American companies. His stock holdings in Sanofi, maker of the name brand, have been uncovered, but who knows how much of his holdings are still secret? No one since his financial ties are locked door secrets. What is clear is that multiple major donors have massive holdings in sanofi and other generic manufacturers, some ARE drug manufacturers, so he has good reason to sell it even if he didn't have the personal stake that he has....he gets millions in donations he can pilfer.

FYI, a near 100% of doctors disagree, there are zero studies and only some anecdotal evidence to support Trump's self serving snake oil claims, and tons of proof that it's dangerous, has side effects that can be permanently disabling or deadly and may be worse and more likely than average Covid19 symptoms, and has not proven to be effective against Covid19. Do your research. Drugs of last resort should not be used as preventative or unsupervised medicine, or be suggested by people who know nothing but stand to benefit financially.

It's bad because it causes;
Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blurred vision or other vision changes
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty breathing
difficulty seeing at night
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever with or without chills
general feeling of tiredness or weakness
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
severe mood or mental changes
sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the feet or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
Heart failure
Death
All with no evidence it helps with Covid19

There are >10 million doctors worldwide. Thousands equates to .02% think it's the right treatment. That means ten million doctors worldwide disagree. The only medical studies done so far have shown it's not effective against covid19, but is deadly when taken with diabetes medications. The anecdotal evidence that it helps comes from places where it's used in conjunction with antibacterial or antiviral drugs, when used alone it's useless.
Jebus, @bobknight33, the dangerous stupidity is increasing with every post. Not one bit surprising, you get all your information from unethical, amoral propagandists like Trump , Faux, and OAN, all of which are verified constant liars whose listeners are less informed after listening....calling any actual verifiable information "fake news".
Your idiocy would be laughable if this wasn't life and death information.

A quick reminder of hydrooxychloroquine side effects-
Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blurred vision or other vision changes
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty breathing
difficulty seeing at night
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever with or without chills
general feeling of tiredness or weakness
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
severe mood or mental changes
sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the feet or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
death

Edit:oh, now I get it. I've now read Giuliani told Trump this crap works, and of course trump trusts him over the medical community or scientific studies...as do .02% of doctors if this opinion piece isn't pure *lies like OAN trades in. Remember, they are essentially a subsidiary of Pravda. It will be interesting to find out how many people pushing the untested hydroxychloroquine recently invested in companies that make it.
Btw-Giuliani had his Twitter account suspended for lying and claiming hydro has 100% effectiveness at eradicating covid19 despite zero evidence to support that claim and tons to refute it.

100000-6000000 American citizens dead....great job.
>$2000000000 for just round 1 of the bailouts (socialism), with Trump indicating it will be up to $6000000000 or more to pay for his lack of quick action....with at least one more round of bailouts after that.
Local leaders were told to fend for themselves, find your own supplies and equipment, then once they did, Trump's administration moved in and outbid the state's to add those supplies to the federal stockpiles that he won't ship to blue states.
Sure Bobby, it's the Democrats complaints that put us here, not Trump's lack of action.
Um...no. Trump didn't "take care of those" rules and laws, he took care of the protections that avoided a pandemic under Obama by shrinking the programs until he could drowned them in a bathtub, then drowning them.

A study just published in a French medical journal provides new evidence that hydroxychloroquine does not appear to help the immune system clear the coronavirus from the body. Other studies show deadly reactions when taken with diabetes medications, and horrific side effects. Also, we can't get much if it turns out to be helpful in limited use, India made it illegal to export.

Trump's not wrong 100% of the time....sometimes he's sleeping. When he's awake and speaking or acting, he's wrong over 80% of the time, but ask him or those of your ilk, he's 100% right 100% of the time. You know that can't be 1/2 true.

Heep you head up Trump ass and drink his Kool Aid on the way to the Trump rally, and be sure to give all those other heroes there a big appreciative hug for standing up against the libtards....maybe a nice sloppy kiss too...trust me, it's safe, and you can take hydroxychloroquine if you're scared....just don't worry if you have these possibly permanent side effects....
Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blurred vision or other vision changes
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty breathing
difficulty seeing at night
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever with or without chills
general feeling of tiredness or weakness
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
severe mood or mental changes
sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the feet or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin

And don't feel bad when it doesn't help fight covid 19, just blame Obama, that solves everything.
*facepalm

You hear that? @bobknight33

Bought us time so he could sit around and say "it'll just go away like a miracle" and not make any preparations otherwise.

Think about that when your friends and loved ones are coughing up blood gasping for air. I have 2 students who have lost parents now and I can't be of much solace without being able to come back to school.

MAGA - WHAT A FUCKING JOKE - yeah Make America Great Again. I'll remember how great he's made America every time I have to drive somewhere and look at the vacant hell-scape of quarantine where everyone is afraid to breathe the fucking air outside.

here's what he did with that "time he bought us"
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection

Here in Toronto Canada, we had these same panic buying of TP just the same as in the USA, Australia and other countries, no stock anywhere last week. But today the supermarkets has them on sale (~$10 CDN for a bag of 30 rolls.... that's like $7 USD) but under 1 bag per customer limit. All the TV news said the stock will be replenished soon.

What I'm worry about though, are the cleanliness of fresh produce. I've seen lots of a**holes coughing of fruits & vegetables AFTER they had their pick....

I'd share this but then I know one or two people who, instead of learning to cough into their elbow, will go buy up all the surgical masks for themselves

So glad Amazon shut him down, I hope eBay, Craig's list, and elsewhere did too. I have to wonder if he broke even before they did, selling $1 bottles for $70 it wouldn't take long.

What a douchebag pandemic profiteer. I'm actually surprised Trump isn't doing the same thing, it's so his style. I hope it's a separate felony for each item he gouged with.

If you're sick and in Tennessee, find this guy and go directly to his house looking for sanitizer, and be sure to cough on your money first. If anyone deserves to be deliberately infected, it's assholes like him.

*promote a *quality shaming